Barclays ATP World Tour Finals - Day 5

[Denis]

Into the decider we go!

 

[Denis]

If running around is your definition of having a lot of heart. He is certainly not courageous in his shotmaking.

He is when he has to be. Watch him play rafa, and he is quite courageous (or desperate) with his stots. Against stan, he is better off playing defensive I think, it's just better tactics based on their games. He can't out hit stan.

My definition of heart is belief and fight, even when you are playing for nothing, and you're all but out. If you think that's just "running around," you and I see it differently.

Aha, I see. Like last Tuesday. :nono

Ferrer is basically a pusher with a nice inside-out forehand. He can have tremendous tenacity, yes, but so does my dog when I throw a ball. And against players like Stan I do not like all this retrieving instead of playing some ball. It's weasel-like: he should fight fire with fire. That is, if he wants my support. If he is there to get the 80 000 euros, this might be the better approach.

You're pretty harsh on a guy who's made the most of his strengths and gifts. To each his own, Deni, but personally I don't understand people who resent certain styles of tennis to the point of hostility.

Well, he showed some very different tennis when he was playing Rafa in the semis at Bercy. He can play aggressive (he actually did a bit in this second set), so that makes it even more frustrating. It's tactics to win a match. I understand that, but I don't like it.

 

[Moxie]

^ He played great in that match. He hasn't had that this week, really. But I was just saying that he was showing loads of "heart," which I define much as Kieran did on the previous page in response. Nothing about his best tennis, or his tennis at all, really.

 

[Denis]

My point is: if he had heart he would play much more aggressive. He is not doing that, because he is on a different tactical plan here.

 

[Moxie]

My point is: if he had heart he would play much more aggressive. He is not doing that, because he is on a different tactical plan here.

That's the way you see it. I get it, but that's your definition, not mine. Gotta run out. Hopefully I'll make it back for the end. Enjoy, kids.

 

[Kieran]

My point is: if he had heart he would play much more aggressive. He is not doing that, because he is on a different tactical plan here.

That's the way you see it. I get it, but that's your definition, not mine. Gotta run out. Hopefully I'll make it back for the end. Enjoy, kids.

Vamos, baby!

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

Ferrer looks like a schoolboy with his bag on his back. Don't forget to eat your greens!

but no sprouts though :s..

we don't need no farting ferrer poisoning the atmos inside the o2. :gross:

 

[Kieran]

Seems like Daveed's heart is breaking...

 

[Denis]

Well not to worry anyways. It seems that the tactical plan has changed to getting to the airport before the plane leaves.

Now let's hope Rafa delivers.

 

[Denis]

Its weird that you dont get any points for making the semi. If Wawrinka makes it, he will not get payed for losing to Djokovic in the semis.

 

[Denis]

Hahaha, that was funny!

Edit: Wawrinka sent Ferrer all over the place. Literally. Deep left serve, deep right backhand, deep left forehand, dropshot, and a lob to finish it off.

 

[Riotbeard]

He is when he has to be. Watch him play rafa, and he is quite courageous (or desperate) with his stots. Against stan, he is better off playing defensive I think, it's just better tactics based on their games. He can't out hit stan.

My definition of heart is belief and fight, even when you are playing for nothing, and you're all but out. If you think that's just "running around," you and I see it differently.

Aha, I see. Like last Tuesday. :nono

Ferrer is basically a pusher with a nice inside-out forehand. He can have tremendous tenacity, yes, but so does my dog when I throw a ball. And against players like Stan I do not like all this retrieving instead of playing some ball. It's weasel-like: he should fight fire with fire. That is, if he wants my support. If he is there to get the 80 000 euros, this might be the better approach.

You're pretty harsh on a guy who's made the most of his strengths and gifts. To each his own, Deni, but personally I don't understand people who resent certain styles of tennis to the point of hostility.

Well, he showed some very different tennis when he was playing Rafa in the semis at Bercy. He can play aggressive (he actually did a bit in this second set), so that makes it even more frustrating. It's tactics to win a match. I understand that, but I don't like it.

I don't care for Ferrer's game either (I find it quite boring), but to me he comes off as the epitome of a lot of heart. He does the best he can with the tools he has.

Shot-making and heart are different issues to me.

 

[Denis]

^Its simply not true. He actually can play much more aggressive, Davydenko-like, tennis. He just doesn't do it because he probably yields higher returns by just pushing it back in play. That is not playing the best he can with the tools he has. He is holding back a lot and just waiting for the other to make the mistake. This match first set was exemplary.

 

[Denis]

Well great showing by Wawrinka. A good win against the world no 3.

 

[Denis]

If Berdych wins against Rafa, Stan is out.

 

[Kieran]

Nice touch by Stan in the post-match interview, taking a gentle dug at Rafa about coaching during the Berdy match... :Lolz:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

If Berdych loses, Rafa is Winner and Stan is runner up.

If Berdych wins in three sets, Rafa is winner and Berdych is runner up.

If Berdych wins in two sets, Berdych is winner and Rafa is runner up.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^Its simply not true. He actually can play much more aggressive, Davydenko-like, tennis

No.

Doesn't hit the ball nearly as clean, doesn't (read: can't) take it as early, and definitely doesn't change direction with the same effortlessness. These are things Davydenko did almost as well as anyone in history (no exaggeration). Davydenko's backhand alone is a significantly superior shot to that of Ferrer. Ferrer relies on one world class shot and that's his inside out forehand. Everything else is solid but unspectacular. I'm not saying Davydenko is a significantly superior player in general, but when it comes to ball striking, he most certainly is. The above assessment is highly inaccurate. I get that you don't like Ferrer, but there's no way you can let emotions cloud your opinion so much.

And since when is playing with aggression an indicator of heart? Watch Nadal against Verdasco at the Australian Open 2009. He got bossed all over the court. Nobody in their right mind would accuse him of lacking heart in that match.

There are some noticeable limitations to Ferrer's game, but lacking heart isn't one of them.

 

[Riotbeard]

Also foot speed and defense are important skills to tennis, and Ferrer puts these to great use.

 

[Kieran]

Nice start by Rafa, he seems to be more at ease in this match than the last two...