Ban Reduction Galore

[Denis]

I don't want to change the rules... I want them adhered to.

"Illness (e.g. dizziness or nausea) or phobias are not compelling justification." are the rules (you quoted them above). Both formed Troicki's defence.

And he was convicted wasn't he? That doesn't mean you cannot take it into account.

 

[nehmeth]

^ It is listed as an example. The rule is 'something where it was unavoidable that they couldn't take the test'. From the perspective of a person with a needle phobia and a having a fever, that might be the case.

I can understand the judgment. You may want to change the rules, that's a whole different debate. But the judgment seems sound.

But Denis... the guy has been taking these tests for a long time. To suddenly throw up an "I was scared" excuse looks very shady, even if it is legal - and I do like Viktor.

 

[Denis]

^ It is listed as an example. The rule is 'something where it was unavoidable that they couldn't take the test'. From the perspective of a person with a needle phobia and a having a fever, that might be the case.

I can understand the judgment. You may want to change the rules, that's a whole different debate. But the judgment seems sound.

But Denis... the guy has been taking these tests for a long time. To suddenly throw up an "I was scared" excuse looks very shady, even if it is legal - and I do like Viktor.

I agree, but I can understand that it is something you can take into account when actually sentencing someone. He was convicted after all. And btw, I dont like Troicki. I do like reasonable judgements.

 

[britbox]

I also have a difficult time believing a big strong mature player who has been doing these tests for years... chooses to use the "I'm terrified of needles" argument for skipping a test. I can certainly see why other posters would be skeptical.

He had medical proof that he has a phobia for needles. In where I am from, a sworn statement by a doctor that you have such a condition in court is evidence that can hardly be rebutted.

Lance Armstrong's doctor gave him backdated medical prescriptions for a cream containing steroids to pass a failed test. Armstrong has gone on record saying it was a load of tosh and they scoured the internet for an excuse. His doc played ball.

Conconi was a doctor, Fuentes was a doctor... Michele Ferrari was a doctor. They've been been rebutted big time.

 

[britbox]

I don't want to change the rules... I want them adhered to.

"Illness (e.g. dizziness or nausea) or phobias are not compelling justification." are the rules (you quoted them above). Both formed Troicki's defence.

And he was convicted wasn't he? That doesn't mean you cannot take it into account.

Nothing personal buddy, but don't you think it's about damage limitation? I am vehemently anti-doping and don't buy any of this crap any longer... Nail them and hit them hard. It might make a difference in the long term for the better.

 

[Denis]

I also have a difficult time believing a big strong mature player who has been doing these tests for years... chooses to use the "I'm terrified of needles" argument for skipping a test. I can certainly see why other posters would be skeptical.

He had medical proof that he has a phobia for needles. In where I am from, a sworn statement by a doctor that you have such a condition in court is evidence that can hardly be rebutted.

Lance Armstrong's doctor gave him backdated medical prescriptions for a cream containing steroids to pass a failed test. Armstrong has gone on record saying it was a load of tosh and they scoured the internet for an excuse. His doc played ball.

Conconi was a doctor, Fuentes was a doctor... Michele Ferrari was a doctor. They've been been rebutted big time.

That's very true and that is a very serious issue. But you can't through out the baby with the bathwater. These doctors should obviously be sanctioned for breaching their professional ethical code and lying under oath.

But the presumption should be that these people can be relied upon in courts. Maybe take as a rule that it should be an independent doctor (was that the case here)?

 

[Denis]

I don't want to change the rules... I want them adhered to.

"Illness (e.g. dizziness or nausea) or phobias are not compelling justification." are the rules (you quoted them above). Both formed Troicki's defence.

And he was convicted wasn't he? That doesn't mean you cannot take it into account.

Nothing personal buddy, but don't you think it's about damage limitation? I am vehemently anti-doping and don't buy any of this crap any longer... Nail them and hit them hard. It might make a difference in the long term for the better.

Sigh... I don't think we disagree on eradicating doping. But just please keep in mind that everyone should have a fair trial and that the rules should be designed accordingly. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Kieran]

I think zero tolerance should be tried. I mean, there needs to be an ultimate deterrent. Some sports are just incredible and it can breed cynicism about clean athletes...

Zero tolerance after the second offense yes. And after a fair trial and proper evidence of the offense.

I would expect a fair trial at all times. I haven't heard there were no fair trials. In fact, leniency seems to be their byword.

I agree about ZT for even a second offence but my fear is that the battle is being lost and sportsmen are making a mockery of the rules with their hamfisted excuses...

You are really naive to expect that.

I don't see why you say that. You seem to be saying Troicki didn't get a fair trial, yet the guy got his ban reduced. That actually seems unfair to clean players...

 

[Denis]

Nope. I think here he got a fair trial. But I am not expecting anything.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

I think zero tolerance should be tried. I mean, there needs to be an ultimate deterrent. Some sports are just incredible and it can breed cynicism about clean athletes...

Zero tolerance after the second offense yes. And after a fair trial and proper evidence of the offense.

which we have had, so stop supporting drug cheats..its sad and immoral.

 

[Denis]

I think zero tolerance should be tried. I mean, there needs to be an ultimate deterrent. Some sports are just incredible and it can breed cynicism about clean athletes...

Zero tolerance after the second offense yes. And after a fair trial and proper evidence of the offense.

which we have had, so stop supporting drug cheats..its sad and immoral.

:nono

It's sad that you think that way.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

troiki is an adult isn't he..?..not some sub-normal child who was given a night nurse anti flu medicine double dose by matron..*whaaaaaa* notmyfault its NOT. MYYY. FAULT.

its his fault, he lied, he won't be a man and face up to what he did, he is a coward. ONE YEAR ISNT ENOUGH, its saying its not so bad if someone dodges a test.

 

[Denis]

troiki is an adult isn't he..?..not some sub-normal child who was given a night nurse anti flu medicine double dose by matron..*whaaaaaa* notmyfault its NOT. MYYY. FAULT.

its his fault, he lied, he won't be a man and face up to what he did, he is a coward. ONE YEAR ISNT ENOUGH, its saying its not so bad if someone dodges a test.

Are you even capable of having a serious civilized discussion?

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

I think zero tolerance should be tried. I mean, there needs to be an ultimate deterrent. Some sports are just incredible and it can breed cynicism about clean athletes...

Zero tolerance after the second offense yes. And after a fair trial and proper evidence of the offense.

which we have had, so stop supporting drug cheats..its sad and immoral.

:nono

It's sad that you think that way.

sad..:speechless::speechless: you are sticking up for liars and cheats, i don't get your mentality at all. :nono

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

troiki is an adult isn't he..?..not some sub-normal child who was given a night nurse anti flu medicine double dose by matron..*whaaaaaa* notmyfault its NOT. MYYY. FAULT.

its his fault, he lied, he won't be a man and face up to what he did, he is a coward. ONE YEAR ISNT ENOUGH, its saying its not so bad if someone dodges a test.

Are you even capable of having a serious civilized discussion?

you are not even capable of ingesting simple information. I bet you still think Lance Armstrong should have his 7 tour de france titles back.

 

[tented]

Stick to the topic. Don't make it personal, or insult each other. Thanks.

 

[Denis]

I think zero tolerance should be tried. I mean, there needs to be an ultimate deterrent. Some sports are just incredible and it can breed cynicism about clean athletes...

Zero tolerance after the second offense yes. And after a fair trial and proper evidence of the offense.

which we have had, so stop supporting drug cheats..its sad and immoral.

:nono

It's sad that you think that way.

sad..:speechless::speechless: you are sticking up for liars and cheats, i don't get your mentality at all. :nono

Ok, I'll try to explain it for you. What I am defending is not a person (I don't really care about Troicki and I think he should be banned for the period he was banned for), but the idea of a fair trial and the fact that while in some instances a sentence might seem too low, there might be good reasons for it related to the personal circumstances of the offender.

There is a difference there. I hope you are able to see the difference.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I think zero tolerance should be tried. I mean, there needs to be an ultimate deterrent. Some sports are just incredible and it can breed cynicism about clean athletes...

Zero tolerance after the second offense yes. And after a fair trial and proper evidence of the offense.

I would expect a fair trial at all times. I haven't heard there were no fair trials. In fact, leniency seems to be their byword.

I agree about ZT for even a second offence but my fear is that the battle is being lost and sportsmen are making a mockery of the rules with their hamfisted excuses...

You are really naive to expect that.

You could say the same about not seeing through Troicki's BS. No need for these words.

 

[Denis]

troiki is an adult isn't he..?..not some sub-normal child who was given a night nurse anti flu medicine double dose by matron..*whaaaaaa* notmyfault its NOT. MYYY. FAULT.

its his fault, he lied, he won't be a man and face up to what he did, he is a coward. ONE YEAR ISNT ENOUGH, its saying its not so bad if someone dodges a test.

Are you even capable of having a serious civilized discussion?

you are not even capable of ingesting simple information. I bet you still think Lance Armstrong should have his 7 tour de france titles back.

I don't actually.

 

[Denis]

I think zero tolerance should be tried. I mean, there needs to be an ultimate deterrent. Some sports are just incredible and it can breed cynicism about clean athletes...

Zero tolerance after the second offense yes. And after a fair trial and proper evidence of the offense.

I would expect a fair trial at all times. I haven't heard there were no fair trials. In fact, leniency seems to be their byword.

I agree about ZT for even a second offence but my fear is that the battle is being lost and sportsmen are making a mockery of the rules with their hamfisted excuses...

You are really naive to expect that.

You could say the same about not seeing through Troicki's BS. No need for these words.

I don't agree with that. Personally, I think there is a difference between the individual and authorities. I am inclined to be naive towards the former, but not the latter.