Australian Open Final: Rafael Nadal (9) v Roger Federer (17)

Who wins?


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teddytennisfan

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To fans of tennis, fans of Rafa and Roger, I'm hoping for a good match, where hopefully the players won't be dealing with injury/tiredness issues.

The participating players seem to genuinely believe that their historical record should be thrown out for this match.

It is true that it has been many years since they both were involved in a match of this magnitude - almost 6 years I believe.
Much has changed and transpired since then. Each player has gone through injuries and other players ruling the roost.
They both seem to have genuine respect with each other and appear as friendly as ever. Rafa went on and on how much he appreciated Federer coming to Manacor for his Academy.

Even the long time playing conditions appear to have changed significantly. Since the Australian Open changed its surface to Plexicushion, Center Court at Rod Laver Arena has mostly played in medium-slow conditions, especially during matches played at night when all the matches at the business end of the tournament has played. This year, they are using different balls and the balls don't fluff up as much and the playing conditions have become medium-fast. That is two category levels higher on the Court Pace Rating (CPR) scale. I believe this has helped both players. Federer has always liked faster conditions, especially lower bouncing. Rafa likes when the balls take off with his topspin and the court & balls are not dead.

For those that like to look at the historical numbers in this match-up anyway, here are the relevant numbers.

Most know that Rafa leads the overall H2H 23-11.
However, it is rightly pointed out that 15 of those matches are on clay and don't have much relevance to the upcoming contest, other than Nadal being clearly dominant on the dirt surface with a 13-2 record.

So what is their record off clay? Nadal has 10 wins, Federer 9. One supposes that's better news for Fedfans for those who look to the H2H to help determine outcomes.
Ah, but what about their record in Finals off clay? Federer has 5, Nadal 3. Finals on hard - Fed 3 - 2 Nadal.
What about their Australian Open record? Nadal has 3 wins, 1 in the Finals of 2009, Federer has 0.
But as has been pointed out, the playing conditions are no longer the same as they have been in past years on RLA, so maybe the historical record there is not so relevant.

So what is really relevant? They haven't play a match since October, 2015, where Federer beat Nadal in Basel.
Both have played generally well in the matches in this AO or they would not have reached the final. They each had their share of tough matches that should have prepared them well for a final. Federer said he has been carrying an hip abductor injury since the second round, but he is somehow playing with it anyway, and winning. Can it stand up to one more difficult match? Rafa says he is healthy, but naturally tired after the match with Dimitrov. But he says the day of rest will hopefully be enough to recover.

In the final analysis, I happen to believe as Rafa does. The past is not very relevant for this match.
Maybe it sounds cliche, but I believe the best player on the day will win and that can be either player, and nothing much will surprise me.
Each player is capable of playing well enough to make it a 3 set match if the other is not up to it, or they can both take it to 5.
The stakes are fairly high. Rafa wins and he gets #15 putting him ahead of Sampras and 2 behind Federer.
Federer wins and he gets #18 adding to his own record and putting more distance between himself and the rest.

Maybe it will come down to which player will feel the most pressure and which player will be more relaxed?
Who knows? Everyone will make their own predictions and have their reasons or preferences. To each their own.

Anyway, I plan to sit back and enjoy the match.
Good luck and good health to both players.

Respectfully,
masterclass

in ONE THING -- i agree -- and always is my PERSONAL RULE..

no matter whcih player -- even ones i don't like -- i want them to be HEALTHY.

this goes for both roger and rafa . RESTED ready, eager, confident and fight with all they have and may the best player on the day win.

but above all -- HEALTHY.
 
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mrzz

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The only thing I would add to what Broken and MasterClass already put very well -- and by stating this I do not disagree with them -- is that Federer´s backhand is now much less error prone than it was, say, two or three years ago. It is not good enough to change the analysis qualitatively, but enough to change it quantitatively, that is, a few less points may be won by the default strategy. Given the match up and the head issues, it will take a sublime presentation from Federer to make it a match or win it -- a thing that he rarely is able to produce. But he done it occasionally in the past, and has a small, but not ridiculously small, chance of doing it now.

P.S. The sample is small, but I have an impression that Ljubicic has helped a lot in tactical/strategical side.
 

Moxie

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Lol! Sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat. H2H is irrelevant. You play to win titles not rivals
You'd like to think so, but the H2H will always be spoken of, and is...not just by Ralphie fans, but by commentators and sports writers. It's part of the rivalry and does affect Roger's legacy. If it didn't, I have a hard time believing that Roger fans would dislike him so much, just based on aesthetics. He's behind in the Slam count, so what's to worry about? :cool:
 
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teddytennisfan

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You'd like to think so, but the H2H will always be spoken of, and is...not just by Ralphie fans, but by commentators and sports writers. It's part of the rivalry and does affect Roger's legacy. If it didn't, I have a hard time believing that Roger fans would dislike him so much, just based on aesthetics. He's behind in the Slam count, so what's to worry about? :cool:

of course -- CREDIT TO FEDERBERG :

''you play to win titles -- not rivals" --

IDEALLY that is the point -

but that is not the reality. players in trying to win titles - still have to play A RIVAL. -- no matter who it is --
but the more IMPORTANT a rival -- for any number of reasons (great player, achievements, real threat in style - etc) --

the more '''playing to win a title - BECOMES playing THAT rival" in order to get the title.

this is after all the same with rafa or roger or nole or andy.
they could be playing to win A title -- any title -- and more often than not be winning them with less concern that a BIG threat is in front of them -- so they play basically "an opponent"" across the net -- to win the title.

but when facing someone they KNOW can beat them just as easily as the other way around -- it is about playing a match against THAT rival . in order to win a title.
 

teddytennisfan

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in any case -- BEYOND likes and dislikes:

I HOPE AND WISH FOR RAFA AND ROGER
TO HAVE RESTED AND RECOVERED WELL
-- PREPARED WELL --
BRING THEIR BEST ,
STAY HEALTHY -- AND PLAY THEIR UTMOST

AND MAY THE BEST PLAYER OF THE DAY WIN

AND MAY THEIR FINALS APPEARANCE AGAIN INSPIRE THEM BOTH AND OTHER PLAYERS TO CONTINUE GIVING THEIR BEST TO WIN THEIR TITLES.

AND CONGRATULATIONS TO THEIR FINALS APPEARANCE
AND TO THE FANS

WHAT AN AMAZING , AMAZING SPORT THIS IS WITH UNBELIEVABLE ATHLETES AND DEDICATED PLAYERS.

AND FANS

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST
THE BRITBOX GUY THAT LETS FANS QUARREL

AMAZING.


 
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Federberg

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You'd like to think so, but the H2H will always be spoken of, and is...not just by Ralphie fans, but by commentators and sports writers. It's part of the rivalry and does affect Roger's legacy. If it didn't, I have a hard time believing that Roger fans would dislike him so much, just based on aesthetics. He's behind in the Slam count, so what's to worry about? :cool:

I don't dislike Rafa that much. I have a problem with some of his antics yes, but I have huge respect for his tennis. My issue is more to do with Rafa fans frankly. The h2h is not an issue for me at all, it never has been, and as for the media and former players? It's entirely a part of their desire to maintain the hype for the tennis narrative as a whole. Show me the tennis player who picks up a racquet thinking about h2hs and not winning trophies... it doesn't happen. It's a construct that might serve your purposes but it's quite frankly a meaningless thing. In a hundred years if Roger still has the slam record no one will care one wit about it.

And you're deluding yourself if you think I worry about it :)
 

teddytennisfan

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Lol! Sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat. H2H is irrelevant. You play to win titles not rivals


MOST LIKELY -- you know this sport the actual way it should be played -- i'm just a watcher fan anyway -- even if i do think my own decades of closely watching has given me at least some understanding of it -

but STILL that is different from knowing the real physical act of it.

so -- what is YOUR evaluation as to why ROGER -- your guy, at least by professed arguments -- would more likely win?

and conversely what nadal NEEDS to do to defeat roger?

just trying to honestly see it from your standpoint.
 

teddytennisfan

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I don't dislike Rafa that much. I have a problem with some of his antics yes, but I have huge respect for his tennis. My issue is more to do with Rafa fans frankly. The h2h is not an issue for me at all, it never has been, and as for the media and former players? It's entirely a part of their desire to maintain the hype for the tennis narrative as a whole. Show me the tennis player who picks up a racquet thinking about h2hs and not winning trophies... it doesn't happen. It's a construct that might serve your purposes but it's quite frankly a meaningless thing. In a hundred years if Roger still has the slam record no one will care one wit about it.

And you're deluding yourself if you think I worry about it :)

well - u know that is the simjilar problem for not just rafa fans -- but of other players also concerning roger fans.

lol.

anyway -- i asked you a question as to your take on why you will assess that ROGER has a better chance to win - rather than vice-versa.
 

teddytennisfan

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To fans of tennis, fans of Rafa and Roger, I'm hoping for a good match, where hopefully the players won't be dealing with injury/tiredness issues.

The participating players seem to genuinely believe that their historical record should be thrown out for this match.

It is true that it has been many years since they both were involved in a match of this magnitude - almost 6 years I believe.
Much has changed and transpired since then. Each player has gone through injuries and other players ruling the roost.
They both seem to have genuine respect with each other and appear as friendly as ever. Rafa went on and on how much he appreciated Federer coming to Manacor for his Academy.

Even the long time playing conditions appear to have changed significantly. Since the Australian Open changed its surface to Plexicushion, Center Court at Rod Laver Arena has mostly played in medium-slow conditions, especially during matches played at night when all the matches at the business end of the tournament has played. This year, they are using different balls and the balls don't fluff up as much and the playing conditions have become medium-fast. That is two category levels higher on the Court Pace Rating (CPR) scale. I believe this has helped both players. Federer has always liked faster conditions, especially lower bouncing. Rafa likes when the balls take off with his topspin and the court & balls are not dead.

For those that like to look at the historical numbers in this match-up anyway, here are the relevant numbers.

Most know that Rafa leads the overall H2H 23-11.
However, it is rightly pointed out that 15 of those matches are on clay and don't have much relevance to the upcoming contest, other than Nadal being clearly dominant on the dirt surface with a 13-2 record.

So what is their record off clay? Nadal has 10 wins, Federer 9. One supposes that's better news for Fedfans for those who look to the H2H to help determine outcomes.
Ah, but what about their record in Finals off clay? Federer has 5, Nadal 3. Finals on hard - Fed 3 - 2 Nadal.
What about their Australian Open record? Nadal has 3 wins, 1 in the Finals of 2009, Federer has 0.
But as has been pointed out, the playing conditions are no longer the same as they have been in past years on RLA, so maybe the historical record there is not so relevant.

So what is really relevant? They haven't play a match against each other since October, 2015, where Federer beat Nadal in Basel.
Both have played generally well in the matches in this AO or they would not have reached the final. They each had their share of tough matches that should have prepared them well for a final. Federer said he has been carrying an hip abductor injury since the second round, but he is somehow playing with it anyway, and winning. Can it stand up to one more difficult match? Rafa says he is healthy, but naturally tired after the match with Dimitrov. But he says the day of rest will hopefully be enough to recover.

In the final analysis, I happen to believe as Rafa does. The past is not very relevant for this match.
Maybe it sounds cliche, but I believe the best player on the day will win and that can be either player, and nothing much will surprise me.
Each player is capable of playing well enough to make it a 3 set match if the other is not up to it, or they can both take it to 5.
The stakes are fairly high. Rafa wins and he gets #15 putting him ahead of Sampras and 2 behind Federer.
Federer wins and he gets #18 adding to his own record and putting more distance between himself and the rest.

Maybe it will come down to which player will feel the most pressure and which player will be more relaxed?
Who knows? Everyone will make their own predictions and have their reasons or preferences. To each their own.

Anyway, I plan to sit back and enjoy the match.
Good luck and good health to both players.

Respectfully,
masterclass

BEAUTIFUL MESSAGE.
 

brokenshoelace

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You'd like to think so, but the H2H will always be spoken of, and is...not just by Ralphie fans, but by commentators and sports writers. It's part of the rivalry and does affect Roger's legacy. If it didn't, I have a hard time believing that Roger fans would dislike him so much, just based on aesthetics. He's behind in the Slam count, so what's to worry about? :cool:

Head to head is not irrelevant. It's silly to say it is. After all, head to head is determined by who wins the match and who loses it...which is kinda the main purpose of tennis.

However, when it comes to the GOAT debate, the head to head is sort of irrelevant as long as Roger has more majors than Nadal, because that criteria is far more important (as winning title is also the main purpose for these players).. If Nadal ever ties him up, then the head to head becomes very relevant.
 
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Moxie

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Head to head is not irrelevant. It's silly to say it is. After all, head to head is determined by who wins the match and who loses it...which is kinda the main purpose of tennis.

However, when it comes to the GOAT debate, the head to head is sort of irrelevant as long as Roger has more majors than Nadal, because that criteria is far more important (as winning title is also the main purpose for these players).. If Nadal ever ties him up, then the head to head becomes very relevant.
That's a very rational argument, but sports are not especially rational. Sure, there are stats in Roger's favor, but there are stats that don't match up, and accomplishments that aren't exactly the same. Rivalries compel the imagination, and aren't completely based on results. (Yankees v. Red Sox comes to mind, in MLB, despite the obvious dominance by the Yankees.) The Federer-Nadal rivalry will always be spoken of, going forward. There's no getting around that. You can say all you want that it comes down to Major wins, but history will find it more complicated, and the H2H will come into play. The great Bud Collins, when asked if one could be considered the GOAT if he can't dominate the other greatest of his generation said No. I take your point as to if Rafa should ever tie up the Major count, but I still think the H2H muddies the waters, for those who believe in a GOAT.
 
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Federberg

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Head to head is not irrelevant. It's silly to say it is. After all, head to head is determined by who wins the match and who loses it...which is kinda the main purpose of tennis.

However, when it comes to the GOAT debate, the head to head is sort of irrelevant as long as Roger has more majors than Nadal, because that criteria is far more important (as winning title is also the main purpose for these players).. If Nadal ever ties him up, then the head to head becomes very relevant.

I think I said the same thing btw..
 
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teddytennisfan

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Oh, c`mon. We´re not even being rude. The guy runs a tennis board and not even the Nadal fans are obnoxious... he should thank his good luck.


ok -- maybe you are not rude..but i am quarrelsome..so that is like the crowd ..lol.

but seriously -- i DARE those ''big name" , big corporate tennis websites to MATCH this website -- nya, nya, nya...
 

teddytennisfan

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Head to head is not irrelevant. It's silly to say it is. After all, head to head is determined by who wins the match and who loses it...which is kinda the main purpose of tennis.

However, when it comes to the GOAT debate, the head to head is sort of irrelevant as long as Roger has more majors than Nadal, because that criteria is far more important (as winning title is also the main purpose for these players).. If Nadal ever ties him up, then the head to head becomes very relevant.


i have to say --- no no no no no

just to be able to say it. ok?
 

Moxie

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I'm going to watch something distracting, then try to get a little sleep. If I'm not up for the beginning of the final, feel free to start without me. :)::sw1:: Bring it on!
 

Moxie

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On a sidenote... lots of Twitter ramblings on how this match has an impact on the GOAT debate.

9F6QBC7.jpg


How much impact?

I don't there's any impact or implications. It's just another match. I'm stymied how anyone can come to this conclusion especially at this stage of their careers. :confused: