Australian Open Day 2: Tuesday, Jan 19 - Order of Play

[Kieran]

It happens. Good win for verdasco, he's been confident against Rafa the last few times. Rafa is unable to cope with big matches, that seems to be the case. Now he's looking like a 29 year old, with lots of miles on the clock and wear and tear in his brain and his game.

It's the same script as FF3 , Lopez, Nicky A and others,have used against Rafa. Keep the rallies short, play 1st strike tennis the very first opportunity and knock the living Hades out of any short ball produce by Rafa or make him uncomfortable. I believe as a fan you should stay with your champion but this player refuses to "change" although it's very evident the game of tennis is not the same as it was 4-5 years ago. The End of Rafa winning matches the way he once did prior to 2014 is upon us. I see no need for him to continue his career in its present state.IMO

Rafa is 30 this year. About the same age as this, Pete Sampras lost in the 2nd round of Wimbledon to...eh...um...er...

Wimbledon!

They have a lot in common with their declines: they grew old and began to feel it.

One thing they don't have in common is this: Pete changed, tried to adapt to others and lost heavy. Only when Annacone persuaded him to revert to his old game did he win the US Open.

Rafa hasn't changed, however. Or at least, he hasn't changed much. Throughout his career he has actually adapted his game pretty successfully, from moving off clay to winning slams everywhere. From being owned by Nole in 2011 and Oz 2012, to winning the next four slam matches against him, and 6 of 7 matches.

"Change" itself isn't a magic elixir. It can be a potent mistake too. If a player feels he can win playing as he always did, then woe-betide him if he listens to others and plays against his instincts.

Bear in mind also the calibre of the performances against him. Sorry, but Dustin Brown was awesome at Wimbledon. FFS likewise at the US Open, smiting winners from everywhere. Apparently Verdasco was the same last night. Sometimes we also have to own up and say, the opponent was magnificent, and take some comfort and enjoyment from that.

Also though we have to recognise that these players sense blood in the water where Rafa is concerned. He's showing obvious signs of wear and tear and he's still a big scalp to take. He's also tightening up at moments where he used to turn the screw and crush even the best. Now, he's not the man he used to be, even mentally. The intensity and fury have diminished. We may just have to get used to that...

 

[Carol]

Reading some awful comments from Rafa's antis now is my turn to stay on their same level...

Hey whatever we can do to get you to elevate your posts above your normal level! . :snicker

Hey, wrong, I would say that you can only to get me to descend my posts below my normal level :snicker :cry

 

[Front242]

My goodness, on the one hand his antis are celebrating his loss but on the other side his fans are angry and very disappointed which I don't blame them because I feel the same way.
Definitely Rafa needs some help like other players have looked for it and found it. He played for years getting multiples achievements with the same coach but things change and after his temporary mental injury he should add someone else to his team, someone giving him more good orientation and new things to work and improve his game starting with his serve.
But at the same time is very funny how his antis act. They are saying for two year that Rafa is done but every time that he plays they pray to all the tennis gods for his loss, if he is done why they are showing so much enthusiasm about it, they are contradicting themselves :dodgy:

Realistically he has no chance at Wimbledon anymore and Novak and Stan to contend with at RG. That leaves just the USO left for this year. Maybe he actually is done.

I don't think any 'honest with themselves' fan is anticipating further championships for Rafa, but I think it's ok to hope with new voices in his training camp (both physical and mental) that he could regularly get to quarterfinals in Slams. Young guns aren't currently setting the world on fire, so there's still some opportunity for Quarters I think.

Sure, no harm to hope and it's perfectly fine and to be expected. All fans hope their favourite player will continue to be great but it can't last forever. Realistically, I don't expect Federer to win anymore slams either though it's certainly possible if he cleaned up his act against Novak in finals or better still if someone else knocked him out before the final. If he wins one great, if not, well he's still doing extremely well for his age but extremely well isn't good enough for some and shouldn't be for him either. Needs to get over the final hurdle From this point on though, regardless of winning more slams as it's doubtful for both Federer and Nadal, it looks likely that Federer's results will still be better and more consistent, which is why many are saying Nadal is as such perhaps done.

 

[the AntiPusher]

It happens. Good win for verdasco, he's been confident against Rafa the last few times. Rafa is unable to cope with big matches, that seems to be the case. Now he's looking like a 29 year old, with lots of miles on the clock and wear and tear in his brain and his game.

It's the same script as FF3 , Lopez, Nicky A and others,have used against Rafa. Keep the rallies short, play 1st strike tennis the very first opportunity and knock the living Hades out of any short ball produce by Rafa or make him uncomfortable. I believe as a fan you should stay with your champion but this player refuses to "change" although it's very evident the game of tennis is not the same as it was 4-5 years ago. The End of Rafa winning matches the way he once did prior to 2014 is upon us. I see no need for him to continue his career in its present state.IMO

Rafa is 30 this year. About the same age as this, Pete Sampras lost in the 2nd round of Wimbledon to...eh...um...er...

Wimbledon!

They have a lot in common with their declines: they grew old and began to feel it.

One thing they don't have in common is this: Pete changed, tried to adapt to others and lost heavy. Only when Annacone persuaded him to revert to his old game did he win the US Open.

Rafa hasn't changed, however. Or at least, he hasn't changed much. Throughout his career he has actually adapted his game pretty successfully, from moving off clay to winning slams everywhere. From being owned by Nole in 2011 and Oz 2012, to winning the next four slam matches against him, and 6 of 7 matches.

"Change" itself isn't a magic elixir. It can be a potent mistake too. If a player feels he can win playing as he always did, then woe-betide him if he listens to others and plays against his instincts.

Bear in mind also the calibre of the performances against him. Sorry, but Dustin Brown was awesome at Wimbledon. FFS likewise at the US Open, smiting winners from everywhere. Apparently Verdasco was the same last night. Sometimes we also have to own up and say, the opponent was magnificent, and take some comfort and enjoyment from that.

Also though we have to recognise that these players sense blood in the water where Rafa is concerned. He's showing obvious signs of wear and tear and he's still a big scalp to take. He's also tightening up at moments where he used to turn the screw and crush even the best. Now, he's not the man he used to be, even mentally. The intensity and fury have diminished. We may just have to get used to that...

Wow, let me begin with thank you for writing this piece. It so hard to compare Rafa with Pete because he had those two weapons, Pete's 1st and 2 nd serves provided such a huge advantage for him to get out of any situation because he dictates the tempo whereas Rafa has to grind for every point. For example, Fernando serving like Pete was the equalizer and the difference in yesterday's match with Rafa. However , I appreciate your points and acceptance of present state of Rafa's game is what It is reality.

 

[Kieran]

My goodness, on the one hand his antis are celebrating his loss but on the other side his fans are angry and very disappointed which I don't blame them because I feel the same way.
Definitely Rafa needs some help like other players have looked for it and found it. He played for years getting multiples achievements with the same coach but things change and after his temporary mental injury he should add someone else to his team, someone giving him more good orientation and new things to work and improve his game starting with his serve.
But at the same time is very funny how his antis act. They are saying for two year that Rafa is done but every time that he plays they pray to all the tennis gods for his loss, if he is done why they are showing so much enthusiasm about it, they are contradicting themselves :dodgy:

Realistically he has no chance at Wimbledon anymore and Novak and Stan to contend with at RG. That leaves just the USO left for this year. Maybe he actually is done.

I don't think any 'honest with themselves' fan is anticipating further championships for Rafa, but I think it's ok to hope with new voices in his training camp (both physical and mental) that he could regularly get to quarterfinals in Slams. Young guns aren't currently setting the world on fire, so there's still some opportunity for Quarters I think.

Bear in mind that people said exactly the same thing about Sampras when he was crashing out of slams and tourneys in the build up to his winning the US Open in 2002. The fact is with great players, we just don't know if they'll totally fade, or ignite somewhere along the way. Rafa - like Pete - knows how to win big, and it isn't impossible to say that the conditions could present themselves for him to dig deep and eke out a major. It would be foolish to say otherwise, and at the same time, foolhardy to bet on him winning big, too...

 

[Fiero425]

Realistically he has no chance at Wimbledon anymore and Novak and Stan to contend with at RG. That leaves just the USO left for this year. Maybe he actually is done.

I don't think any 'honest with themselves' fan is anticipating further championships for Rafa, but I think it's ok to hope with new voices in his training camp (both physical and mental) that he could regularly get to quarterfinals in Slams. Young guns aren't currently setting the world on fire, so there's still some opportunity for Quarters I think.

Bear in mind that people said exactly the same thing about Sampras when he was crashing out of slams and tourneys in the build up to his winning the US Open in 2002. The fact is with great players, we just don't know if they'll totally fade, or ignite somewhere along the way. Rafa - like Pete - knows how to win big, and it isn't impossible to say that the conditions could present themselves for him to dig deep and eke out a major. It would be foolish to say otherwise, and at the same time, foolhardy to bet on him winning big, too...

So you're saying Rafa will go 2 years without winning a title before his "last?" That will keep me watching to see; the embarrassment and humiliation of going out again and again in tournaments, hoping he'll turn it all around before it's too late! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Kieran]

I don't think any 'honest with themselves' fan is anticipating further championships for Rafa, but I think it's ok to hope with new voices in his training camp (both physical and mental) that he could regularly get to quarterfinals in Slams. Young guns aren't currently setting the world on fire, so there's still some opportunity for Quarters I think.

Bear in mind that people said exactly the same thing about Sampras when he was crashing out of slams and tourneys in the build up to his winning the US Open in 2002. The fact is with great players, we just don't know if they'll totally fade, or ignite somewhere along the way. Rafa - like Pete - knows how to win big, and it isn't impossible to say that the conditions could present themselves for him to dig deep and eke out a major. It would be foolish to say otherwise, and at the same time, foolhardy to bet on him winning big, too...

So you're saying Rafa will go 2 years without winning a title before his "last?"

No, I didn't say that at all... :cover

 

[El Dude]

It is pretty depressing when fans of a player as great as Rafa are hopeful that he might make QFs.

Anyhow, I think Kieran is right - that while Rafa is clearly in the stage of his career akin to Pete's last few years, it may also be that Rafa catches fire for a tournament and takes home another Slam. Unlikely, but possible.

Kieran, your post reminded me of how, in my opinion, there are two basic kinds of great actors. There's the Meryl Streep and Daniel Day-Lewis type - actors who have enormous range and can be anything - and then there's the Al Pacino type, who is the same guy in almost every role, but his greatness comes not from range like Day-Lewis or Streep, but from the fact that he can adapt to any role and be "so Pacino" in it and still pull it off.

I think Rafa has been the Pacino type of tennis player. There really would be no point for him to try to be something else, to adapt his game to be something that he's not. He is what he is, and his greatness has come not as much from expanding his range, but being able to bring his game into wider contexts. He started as a clay specialist, then expanded during his peak from 2008-13 and could bring his best anywhere (except for, perhaps, fast indoors), but then has narrowed over the last few years again.

There comes a point when the Al Pacinos of the world start acting like a caricature of themselves...it is then that's its probably time to throw in the towel.

 

[nehmeth]

Al Pacino needs to retire... :cover

 

[herios]

Now I know why I never liked Sockhead. A drama king if there ever was one. And I can't stand drama kings or queens.

I am VERY impressed with Fritz. He used to practice at my club off an on. He is one cool character.

He went from a chubby, 15 year old to a tall, well conditioned pro athlete. Very smart kid and well spoken.

I already mentioned Fritz a few times, and just a few days ago on the Young guns thread, declared that I am entering his fan base. All I learned and observed about this young player in the last few months made ma fan. Even though he lost yesterday to Sock in 5 sets, the score is convincing, he is not far off a top 50 player. It is a matter of time for him ( a few months the most) and he will enter the top 100.
About Sock, I read about his gamesmanship in the match with Taylor Fritz, I am hoping Jack will mature, because US does not want a brat to carry the flag of this sport at anytime.

 

[Fiero425]

Al Pacino needs to retire... :cover

As soon as he tries to get out, they drag him back in! :lolz: :angel: :dodgy: :cover

 

[golds girl]

Al Pacino needs to retire... :cover

As soon as he tries to get out, they drag him back in! :lolz: :angel: :dodgy: :cover

Thanks for lightening this thread up a bit Nehmeth. I'm sure Pacino's publicist was 'pulling her hair out' when she saw this pic:cover

 

[Carol]

It is pretty depressing when fans of a player as great as Rafa are hopeful that he might make QFs.

Anyhow, I think Kieran is right - that while Rafa is clearly in the stage of his career akin to Pete's last few years, it may also be that Rafa catches fire for a tournament and takes home another Slam. Unlikely, but possible.

Kieran, your post reminded me of how, in my opinion, there are two basic kinds of great actors. There's the Meryl Streep and Daniel Day-Lewis type - actors who have enormous range and can be anything - and then there's the Al Pacino type, who is the same guy in almost every role, but his greatness comes not from range like Day-Lewis or Streep, but from the fact that he can adapt to any role and be "so Pacino" in it and still pull it off.

I think Rafa has been the Pacino type of tennis player. There really would be no point for him to try to be something else, to adapt his game to be something that he's not. He is what he is, and his greatness has come not as much from expanding his range, but being able to bring his game into wider contexts. He started as a clay specialist, then expanded during his peak from 2008-13 and could bring his best

anywhere (except for, perhaps, fast indoors), but then has narrowed over the last few years again.

There comes a point when the Al Pacinos of the world start acting like a caricature of themselves...it is then that's its probably time to throw in the towel.

Sorry to say but that comparison is one of the most silly things that I've read.

When a player is not playing well for different reasons you are not going to see many changes and much less some diversity, on the contrary you can see him doing mistakes by mistakes and lack of focus and confidence. His seve was bad and his shot very short, when the head doesn't work well the arms and legs neither.
I thought Rafa (according to his words and how he finished the last two months in 2015) was able to play much better but I see I was completely wrong. How long he is going to last on that conditions? for ever or not so long? everything depending of himself. Maybe he needs to hire Dr Igor (mentalist and specialist in Chinesse medicine and diets) who helped Novak so much in 2011

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I am willing to write off Rafa from winning Wimbledon forever. However, I am still not willing to write him off from winning other slams.

It does not really matter whether it is first round or some other round, nobody expected him to win AO seriously. We all know when the real test comes. it will be exciting to see how he and/or his team responds.

If he does not win RG this year, he won't need win anything beyond a 500 anytime after that during this year.

 

[Kieran]

It is pretty depressing when fans of a player as great as Rafa are hopeful that he might make QFs.

Anyhow, I think Kieran is right - that while Rafa is clearly in the stage of his career akin to Pete's last few years, it may also be that Rafa catches fire for a tournament and takes home another Slam. Unlikely, but possible.

Kieran, your post reminded me of how, in my opinion, there are two basic kinds of great actors. There's the Meryl Streep and Daniel Day-Lewis type - actors who have enormous range and can be anything - and then there's the Al Pacino type, who is the same guy in almost every role, but his greatness comes not from range like Day-Lewis or Streep, but from the fact that he can adapt to any role and be "so Pacino" in it and still pull it off.

I think Rafa has been the Pacino type of tennis player. There really would be no point for him to try to be something else, to adapt his game to be something that he's not. He is what he is, and his greatness has come not as much from expanding his range, but being able to bring his game into wider contexts. He started as a clay specialist, then expanded during his peak from 2008-13 and could bring his best

anywhere (except for, perhaps, fast indoors), but then has narrowed over the last few years again.

There comes a point when the Al Pacinos of the world start acting like a caricature of themselves...it is then that's its probably time to throw in the towel.

Sorry to say but that comparison is one of the most silly things that I've read.

When a player is not playing well for different reasons you are not going to see many changes and much less some diversity, on the contrary you can see him doing mistakes by mistakes and lack of focus and confidence. His seve was bad and his shot very short, when the head doesn't work well the arms and legs neither.
I thought Rafa (according to his words and how he finished the last two months in 2015) was able to play much better but I see I was completely wrong. How long he is going to last on that conditions? for ever or not so long? everything depending of himself. Maybe he needs to hire Dr Igor (mentalist and specialist in Chinesse medicine and diets) who helped Novak so much in 2011

Actually, I thought it was a great comparison, though I'd go with Clint or Gene Hackman ahead of Pacino because Pacino tries sometimes to be versatile and "method" whereas Clint or Gene play to type, mainly, while actually being fairly adaptable.

But the Dude threw up a great idea there and I agree with him in his premise. You wouldn't get Clint playing Shakespeare, you know what I mean? He plays archetypes which serve him well, never seeming limited even though he always acts within obvious limits. DDL is totally different, can be unrecognisable and changeable, even though his versatility can become a crutch that shows his limitations. Both are great but the Dude's gotten a good description of the differences in their range, and how well they work with what they have...

 

[Carol]

We can't compare actors with athletes, two jobs completely different. For example I considerer Robert de Niro one of the best actors but only acting in dramas and not comedies, he always put the same faces, nothing different. Pacino has made different kind of movies but not like a Mohican or a bad butcher in 'Gangs of NY' or President but like a gangster in Godfather', a Bank thief in 'Dog Day afternoon' or a blind in 'Scent of a woman'. Come on, completely different characters and great performances all the way. I don't understand why someone can think he is not versatil, he was and the best :clap
In one word, many times it depends what kind of movie they choose or their agents. Sport is a very different story, it's like comparing the bacon with the speed :nono :huh:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Checking scores there and happy for Hewitt to have won and easily too. Kind of expecting him to lose in 5 as he has in most slams the past few years. Also, eventhough he lost, that seemed that like a decent performance by Brian Baker who lost in a 4 set match of all tiebreaks. After nearly 3 years off tour that's good going and hope his body holds up and see more of him on tour soon.

Yeah, I expected Hewitt to lose. Can probably be more nerve wracking when he knows it's his swansong, so it was a good win for him...

Roddick actually played well in his final USO too and should really have beaten Del Potro who wasn't playing anything special. Can't remember who he would've played next if he'd beaten Del Potro but remember feeling bad for him that he lost that one. Wonder how far Hewitt will go here. No idea who he plays next.

Hewitt plays Ferrer next. IMO, That is the end of the road for Hewitt. Ferru will not give anything for free. This is a battle of two fighters.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Now I know why I never liked Sockhead. A drama king if there ever was one. And I can't stand drama kings or queens.

I am VERY impressed with Fritz. He used to practice at my club off an on. He is one cool character.

He went from a chubby, 15 year old to a tall, well conditioned pro athlete. Very smart kid and well spoken.

I already mentioned Fritz a few times, and just a few days ago on the Young guns thread, declared that I am entering his fan base. All I learned and observed about this young player in the last few months made ma fan. Even though he lost yesterday to Sock in 5 sets, the score is convincing, he is not far off a top 50 player. It is a matter of time for him ( a few months the most) and he will enter the top 100.
About Sock, I read about his gamesmanship in the match with Taylor Fritz, I am hoping Jack will mature, because US does not want a brat to carry the flag of this sport at anytime.

We are on the same page for sure!

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgodd-Xoz24[/video]

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiEYcotgPKY[/video]