Australian Open 2023 F: Novak Djokovic vs. Stefanos Tsitsipas

[don_fabio]

Dead bull bounce works! But there's a chance of it being an "Aging Bull's Last Hurrah."

We could see a ''Raging Bull'', taking into account that Novak won the 22nd.

 

[Front242]

We could see a ''Raging Bull'', taking into account that Novak won the 22nd.

They'd both need to eat some amount of pies to get that fat

 

[tented]

Dead bull bounce works! But there's a chance of it being an "Aging Bull's Last Hurrah." Thus I'm not writing him off, just think we're very close to the end.

Dead Bull Bouncing.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

At this point, the only events I'm certain Rafa will play in (barring injury) are the 2023 clay season/French Open, the 2024 clay season/French Open, and the 2024 Olympics, which I believe will be his final event.

 

[Moxie]

You folks are WAY too defensive and reading a lot more into my words than I intend (sneering? a bit revealing? Moxie back to her old tricks of assuming everyone's out to get Rafa, and thus her!). The irony is that you're just fulfilling the "Rafa fan" stereotype, and continually circling the wagons, taking any disagreement as an attack on the Great One. So yeah, now I'll actually sneer a bit, and throw in some Fiero-esque emoticons to liven things up.

You have a certain arrogance about your sense that you're the one who is completely dispassionate, and everyone else's words are too biased. You did actually say that Rafa fans were in denial. That's a value-judgement. When we disagree and call you out, you draw back in horror. And insult.

Jelena, despite my clarifications you still think I'm "burying him." I'm not. Read the nuance, please. Or rather, read the entirety of what I actually wrote, not just the stuff that you can twist so you can take offense and circle up with the other oppressed Rafa fans.

My view isn't so simple as Roger fans being more level-headed. That's not what I'm saying; you're taking one from the Moxie playbook and assuming a slight when there wasn't one. Again, par for the course for Rafa Cultists!

I still don't see why you are St. Dude, and I am the devil. You don't really take disagreement very well, do you?

But sneering hypebole aside, I think a lot of the difference has to do with the arcs of their careers. Roger burned brighter for a shorter period of time (2004-07), while Rafa reached those heights for shorter spells, but had a longer period of being at a high plateau. Meaning, Roger fans accepted his decline because he was so dominant early on and then because he dropped and wasn't winning many Slams after 2009....so 2012 was a welcome surprise, 2017-18 even more so. Rafa never had an extended high peak like Roger did in those early years, but also didn't have huge gaps between Slams, and has had stronger comebacks, so it makes sense that his fans would be more in denial about Father Time finally, inevitably, catching up.

But what I see missing, and the main factor of this "denial," is looking at simply chronology: that is, Rafa's age. And then couple that with his recent performance relative to the rest of his career. Something is (probably!) different. I'm not saying definitely so. If anything, I'm saying, "Get ready, folks - this may be the end." And you're thinking I'm saying, "Haha, Rafa sucks and is done!"

So what I'm actually saying is this: The likelihood of another 2017 or 2013 comeback is less likely now, because he's 36-37. It could happen, but if it does it will probably be less bright and shorter in duration. So maybe "dead cat bounce" wasn't the right term, but it is more like the last jump or two of a skipping stone.

I actually DID give you credit for saying he wasn't necessarily done, but that doesn't seem to help my cause with you. I think it's clear what you're saying, and it's not that outrageous, in terms of Rafa and the end of his career. It's just the way you cloaked it, and you have to say, comparing Fed fans to Rafa fans as you did, wasn't especially politic, and then the unforunate "dead cat bounce," (which has now taken on a life of its own, hilariously.) You set it up, and we objected to the way you put it. We're not so over-sensitive as you try to make us out. We have a right to disagree with the way you frame it. But when people do, you act like you've been shot. (Speaking of overly-sensitive.) I would like to remind you, you've only been shot AT.

 

[roberto]

I don't have a dog in this race, but I went back and read forward from El Dude's comments about. Rafa, which I feel were measured, logical, and he went out of his way to be diplomatic and balanced. And y'all attack him both tonally and topically from a very defensive posture. It's just a difference of opinion. There's a way of saying I disagree without long diatribes attacking El Dude. I really think some of you need a hobby (other than this)...

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I don't have a dog in this race, but I went back and read forward from El Dude's comments about. Rafa, which I feel were measured, logical, and he went out of his way to be diplomatic and balanced. And y'all attack him both tonally and topically from a very defensive posture. It's just a difference of opinion. There's a way of saying I disagree without long diatribes attacking El Dude. I really think some of you need a hobby (other than this)...

I am certain your cheque is in the mail from El Dude

 

[Moxie]

I am certain your cheque is in the mail from El Dude

El Dude knows we're not misusing him around here.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

El Dude knows we're not misusing him around here.

Of course,, holding on to my Rafa Denial Cap

 

[the AntiPusher]

We could see a ''Raging Bull'', taking into account that Novak won the 22nd.

Speaking of Bull.. especially in regards to El Dude 's comments being unbiased and transparent..when the old Indian Chief Sitting Bull would say to El Dude, he speak with "forked tongue"!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Craig TileyTournament Director of the AO is now facing a lot of scrutiny from athletes and sports physicians in Australia.
Craig Tiley announced after the men's final he had seen a MRI of Novak and he did play with a 3cm hamstring tear.
Renowned Australian Sports Physician Dr Peter Larkin weighs in on Tiley's comment about Novak's injury.
" Is Craig confusing a signal 3cm in an MRI hamstring. Signal can mean some inflammation or some swelling it dosent mean a tear".
"I never doubted that Novak was carrying a hamstring injury.I know his team, they're not allowed to talk in detail publickly but there's going to be speculation unless this is resolved".

 

[Kieran]

Craig TileyTournament Director of the AO is now facing a lot of scrutiny from athletes and sports physicians in Australia.
Craig Tiley announced after the men's final he had seen a MRI of Novak and he did play with a 3cm hamstring tear.
Renowned Australian Sports Physician Dr Peter Larkin weighs in on Tiley's comment about Novak's injury.
" Is Craig confusing a signal 3cm in an MRI hamstring. Signal can mean some inflammation or some swelling it dosent mean a tear".
"I never doubted that Novak was carrying a hamstring injury.I know his team, they're not allowed to talk in detail publickly but there's going to be speculation unless this is resolved".

Why would Tiley even talk about this stuff? I don't know the names of the Tournament Directors of the other slams, but this bloke? He's like Patrick Loudmouth, the coach from France, you can't get him to shut up...

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Why would Tiley even talk about this stuff? I don't know the names of the Tournament Directors of the other slams, but this bloke? He's like Patrick Loudmouth, the coach from France, you can't get him to shut up...

Agree, it is not his place to discuss this information in the first place, he is a tournament director
Great minds he also reminds me of Patrick M, maybe they are distant cousins

 

[TheSicilian]

Craig TileyTournament Director of the AO is now facing a lot of scrutiny from athletes and sports physicians in Australia.
Craig Tiley announced after the men's final he had seen a MRI of Novak and he did play with a 3cm hamstring tear.
Renowned Australian Sports Physician Dr Peter Larkin weighs in on Tiley's comment about Novak's injury.
" Is Craig confusing a signal 3cm in an MRI hamstring. Signal can mean some inflammation or some swelling it dosent mean a tear".
"I never doubted that Novak was carrying a hamstring injury.I know his team, they're not allowed to talk in detail publickly but there's going to be speculation unless this is resolved".

His team are not allowed to talk in detail publicly Why is that?

 

[Kieran]

His team are not allowed to talk in detail publicly Why is that?

It’s remarkable to play at such a level with a hamstring injury. They tend to get worse, not better. I think Tiley sounds like a PR machine cog…

 

[TheSicilian]

It’s remarkable to play at such a level with a hamstring injury. They tend to get worse, not better. I think Tiley sounds like a PR machine cog…

I agree, normally professional athletes are out injured for weeks/months with a hamstring injury. I find it strange the tournament director feels the need to get involved.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Novak and his team have stated that he has a hamstring problem, they did not go into indepth details of any MRI Scan or/how they treated the hamstring, except for their new PR machine Craig Tiley, who had no business saying he saw the MRI scan, he is not a doctor for starters, also has Dr Peter Larkin explained in my post, he dosent know how to read a scan properly.
As I posted before a fellow doctor who is a Orthapedic Specialist told me at work, also treats athletes in many varied sports, in his opinion, a player cannot play a physical sport with a 3cm tear to his hamstring

 

[Kieran]

Novak and his team have stated that he has a hamstring problem, they did not go into indepth details of any MRI Scan or/how they treated the hamstring, except for their new PR machine Craig Tiley, who had no business saying he saw the MRI scan, he is not a doctor for starters, also has Dr Peter Larkin explained in my post, he dosent know how to read a scan properly.
As I posted before a fellow doctor who is a Orthapedic Specialist told me at work, also treats athletes in many varied sports, in his opinion, a player cannot play a physical sport with a 3cm tear to his hamstring

Not only play, but humiliate elite players while playing. But I’m not bothered by that, players have to make their own arrangements on court. Tiley is the real irritating part of it…

 

[TheSicilian]

Interesting article

Expert's 'steak' theory bins Djokovic injury claim

'I'm going to say no'

wwos.nine.com.au

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Interesting article

Expert's 'steak' theory bins Djokovic injury claim

'I'm going to say no'

wwos.nine.com.au

Thanks for positing the whole post, as I did post some of Dr Larkins comments in my post.