Are you a well-"educated" modern person?

[DarthFed]

Twisted wrote:
<blockquote>
Moxie wrote:
<blockquote>
Twisted wrote:
They’re nameless because they almost certainly won’t have to produce a passport or any other form of identification to get in here. And while 99% are probably decent, innocent people there would almost certainly be some ISIS members posing as refugees. it is a different world that we live in today. Our country is also founded on bearing arms without any restriction but this was before assault rifles made it easy to kill dozens of people in seconds. Slavery used to be just fine here too. There are such things as Amendments after all. The reality is we no longer live in the same world, if we made a habit of accepting every immigrant here no questions asked there will be tons of terrorist attacks. So to Syrian refugees as heartless as it sounds…hell no I don’t want them anywhere near me.

Our country is not founded on bearing arms without restrictions. It’s founded on democracy, religious freedom (the Pilgrims, remember?) a separation of Church and State, and the notion that we are idealistic enough to believe that we can create a better, freer society. I agree that we have to be cautious, and that the world has changed, but we also have to be generous. That small percentage, (you say 1%) of refugees that might be moles is nothing compared to the wackos that already live here and are armed to the teeth. You should be mindful of who and what you’re afraid of. When you say “hell no I don’t want them anywhere near me,” you’re talking about people who are mostly, by your estimation, innocent, and fleeing persecution. More than likely, your own people came to the US with the same goals and ideals, as mine did, as refugees seeking a better life in the US. It’s not right to slam the door behind ourselves. We have to count on the FBI and the CIA to vet the majority of these people. And we should also change some of our gun laws to protect us from crazies and domestic terrorists, too. The avenues to a safer society are many. But becoming a closed-minded and racist people is surely not who we want to be. We can’t just fear people because they’re Muslim.</blockquote>
I agree with most of this but there is still one problem here. People will hide behind the Constitution/American ideals for one policy and then do their best to ignore it when it suits them. A right to bear arms is part of the Constitution just as the idea that America should do everything to take any and all immigrants.

Twisted wrote:

So what we get now is the nuts on the right talking about the 2nd Amendment all day or throwing out the ultimate apples and oranges comparison of gun crimes in the worst ghettos of the country (which have strict gun controls) to more affluent parts of the country that do not have as strict of gun controls.</blockquote>
I don’t understand how you think that the worst ghettos have strict gun controls, and the affluent communities don’t. The gun control legislation is state-by-state, not regulated by communities.

Part of gun control can be legislated by cities.  Chicago has a ban on assault rifles (thank God) and is known for having strict gun control compared to most other parts of the country.  And if you have arguments on the subject with enough gun nuts they will be sure to point out that Chicago is still one of the most violent cities in the country despite the gun control.  And they will act as though it's an apples to apples comparison between the ghettos of Chicago and suburbia America.

 

[Moxie]

Moxie wrote:
<blockquote>
Twisted wrote:
<blockquote>
Moxie wrote:
<blockquote>
Twisted wrote:
They’re nameless because they almost certainly won’t have to produce a passport or any other form of identification to get in here. And while 99% are probably decent, innocent people there would almost certainly be some ISIS members posing as refugees. it is a different world that we live in today. Our country is also founded on bearing arms without any restriction but this was before assault rifles made it easy to kill dozens of people in seconds. Slavery used to be just fine here too. There are such things as Amendments after all. The reality is we no longer live in the same world, if we made a habit of accepting every immigrant here no questions asked there will be tons of terrorist attacks. So to Syrian refugees as heartless as it sounds…hell no I don’t want them anywhere near me.

Our country is not founded on bearing arms without restrictions. It’s founded on democracy, religious freedom (the Pilgrims, remember?) a separation of Church and State, and the notion that we are idealistic enough to believe that we can create a better, freer society. I agree that we have to be cautious, and that the world has changed, but we also have to be generous. That small percentage, (you say 1%) of refugees that might be moles is nothing compared to the wackos that already live here and are armed to the teeth. You should be mindful of who and what you’re afraid of. When you say “hell no I don’t want them anywhere near me,” you’re talking about people who are mostly, by your estimation, innocent, and fleeing persecution. More than likely, your own people came to the US with the same goals and ideals, as mine did, as refugees seeking a better life in the US. It’s not right to slam the door behind ourselves. We have to count on the FBI and the CIA to vet the majority of these people. And we should also change some of our gun laws to protect us from crazies and domestic terrorists, too. The avenues to a safer society are many. But becoming a closed-minded and racist people is surely not who we want to be. We can’t just fear people because they’re Muslim.</blockquote>
I agree with most of this but there is still one problem here. People will hide behind the Constitution/American ideals for one policy and then do their best to ignore it when it suits them. A right to bear arms is part of the Constitution just as the idea that America should do everything to take any and all immigrants.

Twisted wrote:

So what we get now is the nuts on the right talking about the 2nd Amendment all day or throwing out the ultimate apples and oranges comparison of gun crimes in the worst ghettos of the country (which have strict gun controls) to more affluent parts of the country that do not have as strict of gun controls.</blockquote>
I don’t understand how you think that the worst ghettos have strict gun controls, and the affluent communities don’t. The gun control legislation is state-by-state, not regulated by communities.</blockquote>
Part of gun control can be legislated by cities. Chicago has a ban on assault rifles (thank God) and is known for having strict gun control compared to most other parts of the country. And if you have arguments on the subject with enough gun nuts they will be sure to point out that Chicago is still one of the most violent cities in the country despite the gun control. And they will act as though it’s an apples to apples comparison between the ghettos of Chicago and suburbia America.

Yes, and NYC, where I live, also has strict gun laws, compared to the rest of the country, and perhaps even our state.  But our past mayor, Bloomberg, complained bitterly that some of the guns on our streets, (and I would guess, in Chicago) come in from the places where the gun laws are more liberal.  So I'm not sure what you're arguing, except for stricter gun laws.  Good on ya.

 

[Federberg]

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/what-happens-when-you-read-people-the-bible-and-tell-them-its-the-koran-exactly-what-you-expect--WkbZzP1Jv9e?utm_source=indy&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=i100

 

 

[calitennis127]

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/what-happens-when-you-read-people-the-bible-and-tell-them-its-the-koran-exactly-what-you-expect–WkbZzP1Jv9e?utm_source=indy&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=i100

People say this all the time, but they don't know about the significance of the hadiths and certain strands of Islamic jurisprudence. In both the Bible and the Qu'ran, there are nice passages and there are violent passages. But the hadiths contain examples of behavior from Muhammad that extremists can invoke and have full grounding in claiming to be "Islamic".

 

 

[DarthFed]

Twisted wrote:
<blockquote>
Moxie wrote:
<blockquote>
Twisted wrote:
<blockquote>
Moxie wrote:
<blockquote>
Twisted wrote:
They’re nameless because they almost certainly won’t have to produce a passport or any other form of identification to get in here. And while 99% are probably decent, innocent people there would almost certainly be some ISIS members posing as refugees. it is a different world that we live in today. Our country is also founded on bearing arms without any restriction but this was before assault rifles made it easy to kill dozens of people in seconds. Slavery used to be just fine here too. There are such things as Amendments after all. The reality is we no longer live in the same world, if we made a habit of accepting every immigrant here no questions asked there will be tons of terrorist attacks. So to Syrian refugees as heartless as it sounds…hell no I don’t want them anywhere near me.

Our country is not founded on bearing arms without restrictions. It’s founded on democracy, religious freedom (the Pilgrims, remember?) a separation of Church and State, and the notion that we are idealistic enough to believe that we can create a better, freer society. I agree that we have to be cautious, and that the world has changed, but we also have to be generous. That small percentage, (you say 1%) of refugees that might be moles is nothing compared to the wackos that already live here and are armed to the teeth. You should be mindful of who and what you’re afraid of. When you say “hell no I don’t want them anywhere near me,” you’re talking about people who are mostly, by your estimation, innocent, and fleeing persecution. More than likely, your own people came to the US with the same goals and ideals, as mine did, as refugees seeking a better life in the US. It’s not right to slam the door behind ourselves. We have to count on the FBI and the CIA to vet the majority of these people. And we should also change some of our gun laws to protect us from crazies and domestic terrorists, too. The avenues to a safer society are many. But becoming a closed-minded and racist people is surely not who we want to be. We can’t just fear people because they’re Muslim.</blockquote>
I agree with most of this but there is still one problem here. People will hide behind the Constitution/American ideals for one policy and then do their best to ignore it when it suits them. A right to bear arms is part of the Constitution just as the idea that America should do everything to take any and all immigrants.

Twisted wrote:

So what we get now is the nuts on the right talking about the 2nd Amendment all day or throwing out the ultimate apples and oranges comparison of gun crimes in the worst ghettos of the country (which have strict gun controls) to more affluent parts of the country that do not have as strict of gun controls.</blockquote>
I don’t understand how you think that the worst ghettos have strict gun controls, and the affluent communities don’t. The gun control legislation is state-by-state, not regulated by communities.</blockquote>
Part of gun control can be legislated by cities. Chicago has a ban on assault rifles (thank God) and is known for having strict gun control compared to most other parts of the country. And if you have arguments on the subject with enough gun nuts they will be sure to point out that Chicago is still one of the most violent cities in the country despite the gun control. And they will act as though it’s an apples to apples comparison between the ghettos of Chicago and suburbia America.</blockquote>
Yes, and NYC, where I live, also has strict gun laws, compared to the rest of the country, and perhaps even our state. But our past mayor, Bloomberg, complained bitterly that some of the guns on our streets, (and I would guess, in Chicago) come in from the places where the gun laws are more liberal. So I’m not sure what you’re arguing, except for stricter gun laws. Good on ya.

That is absolutely what I'm for, I'm just comparing it to the way people are treating the refugee situation.  The Constitution is touted for the immigrant policy by the Democrats and then ignored when it comes to guns and the Republicans have it flipped.