Are you a well-"educated" modern person?

[Federberg]

This has plenty of different dimensions… I agree with Broken in that ill-conceived western foreign policy is a huge factor in the roots of the crisis… but I ask one question: Would you volunteer to house a Syrian refugee family with no knowledge of their past? and I ask it sincerely. The Syrian mess should be cleaned up… but it should be cleaned up in Syria. I hear the Americans, Russians, French, Iranians and Saudis met to discuss the situation… and here’s the thing… the Syrian Government nor any elements of the splintered Syrian opposition were at the table.

I'm not sure my answer would be different for any refugee family regardless of where they come from. It's easy to see demons when looking at Islam as a religion or looking at the crowd. But muslim people on an individual basis are as warm and human as anyone else. Another point to note... in the rush to rid Syria of Assad... it's easy to forget that that regime has held together a country with a large variety of religions, and the civil war is releasing the same kinds of hatreds that we saw during the break up of Yugoslavia. Be careful what you wish for! All I can say, in terms of islamophobia and fear of ISIS, is that the concerns are legitimate and even rational. But in terms of actual real human interactions, how can anyone say definitively that they would reject a Syrian family, without actually meeting them? I couldn't...

 

[Federberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIKg3Qexn7U

 

Need we say more??

 

[britbox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gu7HYk95lc

Scenes like this raise a cause for concern.

 

[Federberg]

Absolutely! Are these recent refugees from Syria? It's worth pointing out that statistically there will be a proportion of any group which are criminal or bad. I'm not sure this constitutes a refutation of obligation to open our doors to refugees

 

[brokenshoelace]

This has plenty of different dimensions… I agree with Broken in that ill-conceived western foreign policy is a huge factor in the roots of the crisis… but I ask one question: Would you volunteer to house a Syrian refugee family with no knowledge of their past? and I ask it sincerely. The Syrian mess should be cleaned up… but it should be cleaned up in Syria. I hear the Americans, Russians, French, Iranians and Saudis met to discuss the situation… and here’s the thing… the Syrian Government nor any elements of the splintered Syrian opposition were at the table.

But this post kinda confuses people with governments. Yes, the Syrian mess should be solved on Syrian soil. Does that mean thousands of innocent children should continue to die in the process?

 

[brokenshoelace]

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6gu7HYk95lc?feature=oembed" width="1008" height="756" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen"></iframe> Scenes like this raise a cause for concern.

Just to be clear, disturbing as that is, those men are not speaking Arabic.

 

[Moxie]

britbox wrote:
<iframe src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/6gu7HYk95lc?feature=oembed” width=”1008″ height=”756″ frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=”allowfullscreen”></iframe> Scenes like this raise a cause for concern.

Just to be clear, disturbing as that is, those men are not speaking Arabic.

Also, there is no context for it.  It's an assault, but to assume why is to feed into hate.  They could actually just be violent assholes.

 

[Federberg]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/22/the-us-debate-around-islam-makes-george-w-bush-look-progressive

 

[Moxie]

Adding onto your point with the Guardian piece, that the current crop of Republican candidates are stirring up anti-Muslim sentiment to a high degree, this is the latest from Trump, claiming that "thousands of Muslims cheered on Sept. 11th in Jersey City, NJ.  Personally, I live fewer than 10 miles as the crow flies from Jersey City, (and about 1.5 from the WTC, so I was interested,) and I have never heard of this or seen anything to back this up.  And The Donald doesn't back it up, either.  He simply insists that it's true.  He thinks he can even bully facts.

 

 

[Federberg]

Adding onto your point with the Guardian piece, that the current crop of Republican candidates are stirring up anti-Muslim sentiment to a high degree, this is the latest from Trump, claiming that “thousands of Muslims cheered on Sept. 11th in Jersey City, NJ. Personally, I live fewer than 10 miles as the crow flies from Jersey City, (and about 1.5 from the WTC, so I was interested,) and I have never heard of this or seen anything to back this up. And The Donald doesn’t back it up, either. He simply insists that it’s true. He thinks he can even bully facts.

Apparently Trump has been retweeting from white supremacists. How is it possible that a US Presidential candidate feels that he can win votes in 21st century America doing this? I find the primaries this time around utterly baffling. I thought Obama's two wins meant that the GOP would have to reach out to new demographies, but it feels from the outside that they're doubling down. The demographics are awful for them, and will only get worse, yet they are ruthlessly focussed on the middle American white male. Even if this is just a tactic to win the Republican ticket, this has to be pyrrhic. They might as well start preparing for Hillary to take over, how on earth will whoever wins the GOP ticket be able to reach out to the American electorate after this? That's a long trip back to the centre, and their base will be upset by any retreat

 

[Federberg]

I'm waiting for Putin to make a speech implying that at least in Russia the police protect their citizens and generally don't wilfully kill them! That would be ironic indeed, even if it's probably not factual. Perhaps it would take something like that for a more searching discussion about the freedom to kill that police seem to have

 

[calitennis127]

It’s funny, I was discussing this very scenario with some friends. And while there is a huge risk that some of the refugees could be IS agents, the idea that you close your borders to refugees is appalling to me. Refugees welcome… apart from Muslims? No thank you. That’s not who I hope we are. We need to ensure that our intelligence agencies stay on top of this for sure. But to deny those in genuine need? I can just imagine during World War 2 some people saying, “no we can’t let these Jewish refugees in, because some of them might be undercover Nazis”. It makes me nauseuous to even contemplate something like that…

 

Federberg, why are you resorting to such cheap clichés in this conversation? It astonishes me how people constantly make reference to the Nazis and the Holocaust a) without knowing anything significant about them and b) as if every situation is similar to World War II. I mean, are you kidding me?

How is the situation of Jews in World War II anything like the refugees of today? There have been dozens and dozens of refugee situations in world history. Why do you have to focus on just one? This is pure intellectual laziness typical of 21st century buffoons. In the last 10 years, I have heard over 8 world leaders be compared to Hitler and about 90 different politicians compared to the Nazis. Mexican protestors somehow compared Bush to Hitler in 2006; the Tea Party compared Obama to Hitler in 2010.

Can everyone please shut up about Nazi comparisons unless someone has control of a First World government with the explicit intention of committing racist genocide?

 

[calitennis127]

I laugh every time I see just how willfully oblivious many act when ignoring that much of what’s going on in Syria wouldn’t have happened without the US’ foreign policy.

So why does it make sense for American leaders to take out their mistakes on the American people? Most Americans neither care about nor know anything about the Middle East. They are not the ones who have sent in NGO's as well as guns and money for the opposition groups that have destabilized Syria and made people hate the U.S.

If there is a portion of the refugee population that consists of undercover ISIS operatives, it will likely be regular citizens who pay the price for letting refugees in and not, alas, the goofballs in the Obama administration who have been sticking their noses in Syria where they don't belong.

 

[calitennis127]

Broken_shoelace wrote:
<blockquote>
britbox wrote:
<iframe src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/6gu7HYk95lc?feature=oembed” width=”1008″ height=”756″ frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=”allowfullscreen”></iframe> Scenes like this raise a cause for concern.

Just to be clear, disturbing as that is, those men are not speaking Arabic.</blockquote>
Also, there is no context for it. It’s an assault, but to assume why is to feed into hate. They could actually just be violent assholes.

Indeed Moxie. It is a wonder why the Islamic world has developed significantly different standards over the centuries when it comes to gender relations. Must be a coincidence.

It couldn't have anything to do with what some of the Islamic scholars at al-Azhar or what the ulema in Saudi Arabia declare. Even broaching those topics is hateful evidently.

 

[Federberg]

Cali, it's a real pity that you don't appear capable of dialectic without being rude. It would be interesting to engage in a proper discussion, but why bother if one party isn't going to be civil. The fact that we disagree doesn't mean there has to be rancour. How old are you might I ask?

 

[calitennis127]

Cali, it’s a real pity that you don’t appear capable of dialectic without being rude. It would be interesting to engage in a proper discussion, but why bother if one party isn’t going to be civil. The fact that we disagree doesn’t mean there has to be rancour. How old are you might I ask?

Perhaps if you have the courtesy of answering my questions I will return the favor and answer yours. Please just stick to substance.

 

 

[DarthFed]

Another mass shooting in the US today.  I'm surprised they even make the news at this point.  Already forgot the name of the last cuckoo bird from last week and the hundreds before him.

 

[DarthFed]

One of the bitches is dead, another in custody and still hunting the third.  Will be interested to see if there is a motive.  From what I've read it seems like people in just one room of the building was targeted.

 

[Billie]

One of the bitches is dead, another in custody and still hunting the third. Will be interested to see if there is a motive. From what I’ve read it seems like people in just one room of the building was targeted.

I just heard when I came back from work.  This is another tragic event in this sorrowful world.  Apparently 2 shooters are dead:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html

 

[DarthFed]

^Yep, so it seems they killed the last one at large.  Apparently one was a woman, kind of surprising.  There still isn't much detail yet but I'm sure they'll have that soon since one of the suspects was taken alive.