AO Mens Final: Novak Djokovic v Rafael Nadal

[Chris Koziarz]

oh my stars, listening to the tennis podcast and they're speculating about whether Rafa was injured. Why can't it be as simple as what we saw. Rafa couldn't handle this version of Djokovic? I don't think Rafa is quite as quick as he used to be anyway.

In his presser, Nad complained that his defensive game wasn't as good as he'd like and hinted that he needs to improve it and then he will be ready to face Joker and have a better chance. Does it mean that he still wants to improve his speed (you need to run fast retrieving balls when in defensive position, right?), or that he wants to cut UE count, or some ball hitting adjustment? We've seen plenty of UE from his racquet. If former, he might be a dreamer, because we's almost 33 now and won't be able to run like he was 25. If latter, we can indeed improve a bit and not be blown off hard court next time (likely in IW).

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

^^^

Djokovic is currently on a 17-set winning streak in 8 straight wins on HCs against Nadal.

I'm very interested to see clay matches between them this year.
Nadal looks slower than last year and Djokovic looks closer to his prime-level movement.

 

[Federberg]

In his presser, Nad complained that his defensive game wasn't as good as he'd like and hinted that he needs to improve it and then he will be ready to face Joker and have a better chance. Does it mean that he still wants to improve his speed (you need to run fast retrieving balls when in defensive position, right?), or that he wants to cut UE count, or some ball hitting adjustment? We've seen plenty of UE from his racquet. If former, he might be a dreamer, because we's almost 33 now and won't be able to run like he was 25. If latter, we can indeed improve a bit and not be blown off hard court next time (likely in IW).

yup, it seems to me that the older you get, if you want to improve your defensive skills then your court positioning has to be what you work on. You don't get faster once you're over 30. Frankly I think his aggressive flatter hitting is the solution. Try to minimise the amount of time you have to spend in defensive situations

 

[MikeOne]

From what I saw today,

Nadals defense is like so much worse than even last year.Djokovic wasn't hitting many winners in this tourney but here he was able to hit many.

Like Agassi in his last year's on tour,Nadal basically coasted on his ball-striking in this tournament and couldn't get past an opponent who sent back those good strokes with interest.

Would be interesting to see if he will be able to get back his defense during clay season.

Re: Djokovic
He seems unbeatable in the longer format at the moment.Except a few losses in minor tournaments I expect another year of dominance from him(except maybe on clay)

Nadal's defense is way overrated on hard courts, he is nowhere near guys like Hewitt, Djokovic, Murray, Simon on defense on hard courts. Nadal is not a counterpuncher, he cannot counterpunch well. The formula Djokovic uses is quite simple - exploit Nadal's weak defense on fh side and play inside the court, taking ball early. Djokovic also cover the court very well, using defense to take winners away from Nadal. It's a simple formula but not many can use it as almost no-one has the set of skills Djokovic has.

Notice how weak Nadal is as a defensive player on hards, when people attack his fh with flat shots, Nadal cannot counterpunch, he is late hitting the ball and hits ball back shorter and shorter. Djokovic exploits this better than anyone by using his bh cross court, attacking Nadal's fh consistently. Djokovic is very smart and can see how weak Nadal is on the defense off his fh side. Contrast this to a guy like Hewitt, who was a true counterpuncher and was able to use short backings to re-direct opponents hard shots for even winners. I remember i saw Hewitt dismantle Feliciano Lopez at US Open, i was at that match. It was remarkable how Lopez was going for big shots and Hewitt was just a wall, putting his racket on the ball and using Lopez' pace to hit winners! Nadal lacks this ability, he is truly a horrible counterpuncher. He can run well but he is horrible counterpunching.

Djoker also runs down all of Nadal's shots and take winners away but Djoker does this to everyone, expect one man - Wawrinka.

When a player gets Nadal on defense on a hardcourt, Nadal loses, as he sucks at counterpunching. It is when Nadal is on the offense that he wins on hards... whoever can take his offense away and put him on defense, beats him. Not many have the movement and ball string skills to do this..

 

[shawnbm]

Nadal does not become the first of the 3 to have 2 career slams. But it looks like Novak might come the French.

That may very well come true. His camp is going to do nothing to jeopardize a good run in Paris.

 

[Carol]

Nadal tanked the match to save the lives of many Federer fans who would have otherwise commited suicide. Very nice of him.

And I can't understand how Federer's fans are still happy with that because if Novak would overtake the Federer's numbers then it would be very clear and without any argument or excuse (about the age) to see and to think that the Serbian would be the GOAT like when Federer over pass Sampras (this one was older too) and I wouldn't be surprised if he will. They never learn

 

[shawnbm]

Novak is a helluva warrior and has immense self-belief. He has had to fight from the get-go as he was never so overwhelmingly good early on as Roger and (even more so, and three years earlier) Rafael. Those two just dominated early on and Novak had to claw his way up past them. He has lost something like ten slam finals I do believe. He has paid his dues and now has a better head to head against both Roger and Rafa by three wins as to each. He is the Serbian Slayer and one of the most tenacious players we have seen. I am not a fan of his style of play (Gumby like) but you have to respect all he has done--remarkable really.

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

Nadal's defense is way overrated on hard courts, he is nowhere near guys like Hewitt, Djokovic, Murray, Simon on defense on hard courts. Nadal is not a counterpuncher, he cannot counterpunch well. The formula Djokovic uses is quite simple - exploit Nadal's weak defense on fh side and play inside the court, taking ball early. Djokovic also cover the court very well, using defense to take winners away from Nadal. It's a simple formula but not many can use it as almost no-one has the set of skills Djokovic has.

Notice how weak Nadal is as a defensive player on hards, when people attack his fh with flat shots, Nadal cannot counterpunch, he is late hitting the ball and hits ball back shorter and shorter. Djokovic exploits this better than anyone by using his bh cross court, attacking Nadal's fh consistently. Djokovic is very smart and can see how weak Nadal is on the defense off his fh side. Contrast this to a guy like Hewitt, who was a true counterpuncher and was able to use short backings to re-direct opponents hard shots for even winners. I remember i saw Hewitt dismantle Feliciano Lopez at US Open, i was at that match. It was remarkable how Lopez was going for big shots and Hewitt was just a wall, putting his racket on the ball and using Lopez' pace to hit winners! Nadal lacks this ability, he is truly a horrible counterpuncher. He can run well but he is horrible counterpunching.

Djoker also runs down all of Nadal's shots and take winners away but Djoker does this to everyone, expect one man - Wawrinka.

When a player gets Nadal on defense on a hardcourt, Nadal loses, as he sucks at counterpunching. It is when Nadal is on the offense that he wins on hards... whoever can take his offense away and put him on defense, beats him. Not many have the movement and ball string skills to do this..

He's not a counterpuncher but he was struggling to stay in rallies here which was not the case some years ago.
Of course,Djokovics deep returns and angles gave him fits but IMO he's half a step slower than even last year.

Since his prime ended,attacking his FH has been a very effective strategy for sure and Djokovic is the best person to exploit it.

 

[Front242]

And I can't understand how Federer's fans are still happy with that because if Novak would overtake the Federer's numbers then it would be very clear and without any argument or excuse (about the age) to see and to think that the Serbian would be the GOAT like when Federer over pass Sampras (this one was older too) and I wouldn't be surprised if he will. They never learn

Well, see, the only other option was to drop an atomic bomb on both of them so we have to be content with option A: Novak wins the AO.

 

[Carol]

Well, see, the only other option was to drop an atomic bomb on both of them so we have to be content with option A: Novak wins the AO.

None atomic bomb, it's clear that Novak is much better player than Federer and I'm not sure if he will be able to win RG but I'm sure he will in Wimbledon which I will be content too. Thanks to you and others Federer's fans I never thought it could happen but I'am becoming a Novak's fan

 

[Front242]

None atomic bomb, it's clear that Novak is much better player than Federer and I'm not sure if he will be able to win RG but I'm sure he will in Wimbledon which I will be content too. Thanks to you and others Federer's fans I never thought it could happen but I'am becoming a Novak's fan

If he's a much better player than grandad Federer then how has he lost to the old man so many times in his absolute prime? Took him years to get ahead in the h2h. He's better since Federer has declined and this is the just the way it goes in all sports.

 

[Carol]

If he's a much better player than grandad Federer then how has he lost to the old man so many times in his absolute prime? Took him years to get ahead in the h2h. He's better since Federer has declined and this is the just the way it goes in all sports.

Like Federer was better than Sampras when this one had declined. It doesn't matter the age, if Novak would overpass to Federer it would mean he has done better numbers and career than him besides having more difficult opponents.

 

[Front242]

Like Federer was better than Sampras when this one had declined. It doesn't matter the age, if Novak would overpass to Federer it would mean he has done better numbers and career than him besides having more difficult opponents.

I never claimed anything about Federer with regard to Sampras but grass matches anyway often come down to only a handful of deciding points and it was a 5 set close match. I also wouldn't say Novak has had tougher opponents cos this is currently an extremely weak era and just the name across the net doesn't mean anything since Medvedev played a much better match than Nadal did against Djokovic in the final and, likewise, on paper Federer was 2nd favourite but played rubbish against Tsitsipas.

 

[Jelenafan]

But such level cannot be sustained forever and eventually Joker's form will dip. But even with his form dipped slightly, he can still beat Nad just like Fed in AO 2017.

I think those Big2 finally found the recipe how to deal with Nad's game on hard court.

Tennis matchups are fluid.
I doubt Federer can beat Nadal in HC today.

 

[shawnbm]

Here we go back to the tired old discussions, I see. Let me know when Pete and Novak can face off with the racquets Pistol Pete used and on a fast hard court or grass.

 

[tented]

Here we go back to the tired old discussions, I see. Let me know when Pete and Novak can face off with the racquets Pistol Pete used and on a fast hard court or grass.

Great to see you @shawnbm!

 

[Carol]

I never claimed anything about Federer with regard to Sampras but grass matches anyway often come down to only a handful of deciding points and it was a 5 set close match. I also wouldn't say Novak has had tougher opponents cos this is currently an extremely weak era and just the name across the net doesn't mean anything since Medvedev played a much better match than Nadal did against Djokovic in the final and, likewise, on paper Federer was 2nd favourite but played rubbish against Tsitsipas.

Anyone would have played better than Nadal in the final, I don’t take anything to Novak but Nadal’s game was ridiculous poor and cero below cero competitive. That’s why I say I hope he has learned already of his big mistakes. I think this era has been a lot more competitive than Federer’s era but unfortunately there are too many injured around

 

[shawnbm]

Great to see you @shawnbm!

And I thank you, tented. Kieran and I stay in touch often. I hope you are well. Is britbox still floating around here?

 

[tented]

And I thank you, tented. Kieran and I stay in touch often. I hope you are well. Is britbox still floating around here?

@britbox is here every day.

 

[Front242]

Anyone would have played better than Nadal in the final, I don’t take anything to Novak but Nadal’s game was ridiculous poor and cero below cero competitive. That’s why I say I hope he has learned already of his big mistakes. I think this era has been a lot more competitive than Federer’s era but unfortunately there are too many injured around

He'll likely win more games next time they play and maybe a set but Nadal isn't beating Djokovic anytime soon on anything but clay. Totally disagree about this era being more competitive btw but each to their own. Nalbandian, Davydenko, Robredo, Hewitt, Roddick, Gonzalez to name but a few all were way tougher top 10 guys to face than the current tour which is a joke and all were capable of upsetting the top guys.