2023 Wimbledon F: Alcaraz vs. Djokovic

[MargaretMcAleer]

25-minute highlights, starts from second set tiebreak, for everyone !

Thanks Vince, good to see you posting!

 

[Kieran]

I was trying to sell @Kieran on the notion that it was about having 2 very, very good returners on court, but he wasn't buying it.

I’m not discounting return of serve as a factor, but Carlos isn’t an Agassi/Djokovic level return of serve. And even if he was, Novak only served two aces across five sets. That’s ridiculously low. There are probably many factors and I think the way they wanted to construct points played a part too. Heavier balls. Placement.

2 aces across 5 sets? He’d serve at least 3 if he faced both Connors and Agassi down the other end, at the same time!

Anyway, it’s going to be a subjective topic of conversation, by definition. It is a curious one though. If it was clay, I’d understand it more easily..

 

[Vince Evert]

Carlos Alcaraz beats Novak Djokovic to signal changing of the guard...​

For so long, the question had been: "Why can't the next generation stop Novak Djokovic?"

Carlos Alcaraz, frozen by fear at the prospect of playing Djokovic in the French Open semi-finals, finally did it.

Not only did the Spaniard beat Djokovic in a Grand Slam final, he overcame the 36-year-old Serb at the place where he has been unbeatable in recent years.

Amid a feverish atmosphere on Centre Court on Sunday, the 20-year-old won a thrilling five-set final to claim the Wimbledon men's singles title.

It stopped Djokovic winning a fifth successive title at SW19, an eighth men's crown at the All England Club and a 24th major overall - all record-equalling feats.

Echoing the thoughts of many onlookers, nine-time Wimbledon men's doubles champion Todd Woodbridge described Alcaraz's win as a "changing of the guard".

"I did it for myself, not for the tennis generation, honestly," said Alcaraz, who became the first player to beat Djokovic on Centre Court since Andy Murray in the 2013 final.

"Beating Novak at his best, in this stage, making history, being the guy to beat him after 10 years unbeaten on that court, is amazing for me.

"But it's great for the new generation, as well, I think to see me beating him and making them think that they are capable to do it."

It has long been asked which players would take on the men's game after the careers of Djokovic, Rafael Nadal - who is set to retire next year - and Roger Federer, who called it a day last year.

Djokovic was bidding to win the seventh of the past nine Grand Slams he has played in, having already claimed the Australian Open and French Open titles this year.

Although the Melbourne victory came in a tournament where Alcaraz was ruled out through injury, the young Spaniard was unable to stop him in Paris.

Alcaraz saw his hopes in last month's much-anticipated semi-final against Djokovic ruined by full body cramps caused by nerves.

The aura of the then 22-time major champion loomed large. Factoring in Djokovic's technique, tactics, mentality on the court and resilience off it, he has created a formidable figure which has overawed his younger opponents.

In the past five seasons, Djokovic has lost only eight of the 52 matches he has played against opponents under the age of 23.

Added to that, Alcaraz was only the second younger opponent - after Daniil Medvedev at the 2021 US Open - to beat Djokovic in a Grand Slam final since 2020.

Djokovic, Federer and Nadal have dominated the sport for much of the past two decades, with Alcaraz becoming the first man to win multiple Grand Slams since Switzerland's Stan Wawrinka in 2016.

The Spaniard is also the first man other than Federer, Nadal, Djokovic or Murray to win Wimbledon since 2002.

Alcaraz's all-round game is a joy to watch. As well as power from the baseline, he has a deft touch around the net and is able to cover the court with his athleticism.

Some have said Alcaraz's style takes elements from each of Djokovic, Federer and Nadal.

"I would agree with that. I think he's got basically the best of all three worlds," said Djokovic.

"He's got this Spanish bull mentality of competitiveness and fighting spirit and incredible defence that we've seen with Rafa over the years.

"And I think he's got some nice sliding backhands that have got some similarities with my backhands. Two-handed backhands, defence, being able to adapt.

"I think that has been my personal strength for many years. He has it, too.

"I haven't played a player like him ever, to be honest. Roger and Rafa have their own obviously strengths and weaknesses.

"Carlos is a very complete player. Amazing adapting capabilities that I think are key for longevity and for a successful career on all surfaces."

Djokovic, who turned 36 in May and claimed "36 is the new 26" in the build-up to Sunday's final, has no plans to retire yet and showed again this fortnight his powers are not waning.

But with the end of his career coming into view, Alcaraz is primed to take over at the top for the long haul.

Alcaraz became the only teenager to become the men's world number one when he won the US Open last year and remains top of the rankings by claiming his second major title at Wimbledon.

Such has been his emergence, a few of the players once heralded as the 'next generation' to succeed the 'big three' may be concerned they have missed the boat.

"Who's going to match this kid for the next few years?" asked 1987 Wimbledon winner Pat Cash. "It's hard to see anybody."

By Jonathan Jurejko,
BBC Sport at Wimbledon

 

[Kieran]

Carlos really highlighted the difference this match between players who are afraid to win, or who don’t believe they’ll win, and somebody who’s there to win. With the Sinner match in the semi, I couldn’t see the match but I could see it. It was formulaic, on a predictable course. Sure, Sinner isn’t Carlos, but still, the attitude of one is different to the other. Likewise with the other easy matches Novak has had to win slams lately. Nick last year. Didn’t matter what was happening, you felt the match was won before they stepped on court.

This is what’s really exciting about Chaz. We can smell the ambition and hunger to succeed, the love of battle. It’ll make the rest of the season very interesting, because Carlos missed Australia and we all saw what overcame him in Paris..

 

[Kieran]

I think it has to do something with Carlos return game. Some guys serve like hell before they face Novak and then all of a sudden their serve is gone, they get broken 5-6 times. I think Novak got the taste of his own medicine. He probably tought he has an edge on serve and that he will hold it, while Alcaraz will give the break every now and then, just enough to win. Maybe it would go that way if Novak won the 2nd set, but he didn't. He couldn't find the answers in the TB.

Overall, I think he was not brave enough in this final, too tentative, too cautious, Alcaraz was the one with courage and it looked like Novak waited for the kid to start slipping and then take advantage like he did so many times, but it never happened, and when he wanted to do something about it after he got broken in the 5th, it was too late.

I thing you’re right about the tentativeness, especially after the first set. I never saw Novak look so frustrated against a non-3. He also physically looked his age too, which he can’t help, but for the first time he looked old and tired to me. Haggard, at times, which is something we’ve seen in last days Rafa and Roger…

 

[don_fabio]

I thing you’re right about the tentativeness, especially after the first set. I never saw Novak look so frustrated against a non-3. He also physically looked his age too, which he can’t help, but for the first time he looked old and tired to me. Haggard, at times, which is something we’ve seen in last days Rafa and Roger…

That was my feeling too, that he looked old and there's not a thing he can do about it. It probably added to his frustration.

 

[Kieran]

Who would have guessed that going through the gauntlet he did would be what he needed, or that it would leave him with anything for the final? But who would have guessed he'd be such a quick-study on grass. Not me, tbh. I definitely think it helped him to get past Rune easily, but most especially that he did against Medvedev, and that he handled his serve so well.

Yeah, facing tough opponents prepared him for Novak, who’s had it Handy Dandy at the slams for a while now. Carlos is a different pedigree to the Nick, or Babycakes, or Casper the Ghost. Sissypussy, etc.

 

[kskate2]

Who's the chick in the sunglasses and white Wimbledon hat ?

Oh AP, showing your age. That's the lovely Ariana Grande

 

[shawnbm]

There's one in this Vanguardia article (Spanish.)

Matías Prats desvela la broma de Carlos Alcaraz al rey Felipe VI tras ganar Wimbledon

El tenis español está de enhorabuena. Lo visto este domingo en el torneo de Wimbledon ya es historia. Tras casi cinco horas de partido, Carlos Alcaraz, a sus veinte

www.lavanguardia.com

Or this one:

La divertida anécdota del encuentro entre Felipe VI y Carlos Alcaraz tras la victoria en Wimbledon, con mención a Rafa Nadal incluida

El tenista recibió la felicitación del rey tras vencer a Djokovic en la final del prestigioso torneo

www.infobae.com

Muchas gracias maja

 

[the AntiPusher]

Who's the chick in the sunglasses and white Wimbledon hat ?

Oh AP, showing your age. That's the lovely Ariana Grande

Yes ma'am I'm ole

 

[MikeOne]

Alcaraz:
said he was "really, really glad" to have won the second set.

“If not, probably I could have lost, you know, in the straight sets,” he said. “I just believe in myself all of the time.”

the key of match was second set breaker… novak had set point.. he has uncharacterist UFEs in tiebreaker where is is
usually unbreakable, limiting UFEs. In wimbledon final vs federer he had 0 UFE in 2 breakers! And had won like 15 breakers in a row. He couldn’t do the ‘lockdown’ mode vs carlos, you can maybe attribute it to carlos’ intimidating game.

had he won second, match over.

losing second was devastating, novak ended with with 18 UFE in just second set, he went away… that’s more UFes than some of his ufe in previous entire matches.

these matches come down to a point here and there. Novak could’ve lost many matches where he won (2019 wimbledon final, us open 11 semi) but he had some luck on his side. This time, carlos had the luck. In the end, carlos played a strong 5th set so he deserved it given how he finished. He could’ve gone away in 5th after losing 4th.

carlos has game to win many slams but the question is whether he’s durable. Some genetics play a role here, not all training. Delpo couldn’t escape injuries.. others struggled. Carlos has a muscular body and is explosive, i hope he has the bones, ligaments.. overall body composition that will help him be durable. You just never know….

 

[Kieran]

Alcaraz:
said he was "really, really glad" to have won the second set.

“If not, probably I could have lost, you know, in the straight sets,” he said. “I just believe in myself all of the time.”

the key of match was second set breaker… novak had set point.. he has uncharacterist UFEs in tiebreaker where is is
usually unbreakable, limiting UFEs. In wimbledon final vs federer he had 0 UFE in 2 breakers! And had won like 15 breakers in a row. He couldn’t do the ‘lockdown’ mode vs carlos, you can maybe attribute it to carlos’ intimidating game.

had he won second, match over.

losing second was devastating, novak ended with with 18 UFE in just second set, he went away… that’s more UFes than some of his ufe in previous entire matches.

these matches come down to a point here and there. Novak could’ve lost many matches where he won (2019 wimbledon final, us open 11 semi) but he had some luck on his side. This time, carlos had the luck. In the end, carlos played a strong 5th set so he deserved it given how he finished. He could’ve gone away in 5th after losing 4th.

carlos has game to win many slams but the question is whether he’s durable. Some genetics play a role here, not all training. Delpo couldn’t escape injuries.. others struggled. Carlos has a muscular body and is explosive, i hope he has the bones, ligaments.. overall body composition that will help him be durable. You just never know….

Wasn’t really luck though. I mean, it’s not like he needed the Hail Mary forehands like Novak did in 2011. He frustrated Novak and this led to the ‘forced UFEs’. Carlos showed his inexperience in the fourth after Novak vanished for a long time with his bag after the brief third set. But he regrouped very well and given he played poorly in 2 sets, he was still the stronger player on the day.

Nothing to do with luck…

 

[the AntiPusher]

Alcaraz:
said he was "really, really glad" to have won the second set.

“If not, probably I could have lost, you know, in the straight sets,” he said. “I just believe in myself all of the time.”

the key of match was second set breaker… novak had set point.. he has uncharacterist UFEs in tiebreaker where is is
usually unbreakable, limiting UFEs. In wimbledon final vs federer he had 0 UFE in 2 breakers! And had won like 15 breakers in a row. He couldn’t do the ‘lockdown’ mode vs carlos, you can maybe attribute it to carlos’ intimidating game.

had he won second, match over.

losing second was devastating, novak ended with with 18 UFE in just second set, he went away… that’s more UFes than some of his ufe in previous entire matches.

these matches come down to a point here and there. Novak could’ve lost many matches where he won (2019 wimbledon final, us open 11 semi) but he had some luck on his side. This time, carlos had the luck. In the end, carlos played a strong 5th set so he deserved it given how he finished. He could’ve gone away in 5th after losing 4th.

carlos has game to win many slams but the question is whether he’s durable. Some genetics play a role here, not all training. Delpo couldn’t escape injuries.. others struggled. Carlos has a muscular body and is explosive, i hope he has the bones, ligaments.. overall body composition that will help him be durable. You just never know….

No Carlos won the match because his 18 winners overmatch and overwhelmed Novak's game of low UFEs. Its very similar to a few times Novak has went for his shot vs Roger while being down MP. IMO..

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

No Carlos won the match because his 18 winners overmatch and overwhelmed Novak's game of low UFEs. Its very similar to a few times Novak has went for his shot vs Roger while being down MP. IMO..

May I add Carlos slice was also a winner in the match, bringing Novak forward and off the baseline

 

[the AntiPusher]

May I add Carlos slice was also a winner in the match, bringing Novak forward and off the baseline

good point MM

 

[Jelenafan]

So yet another record, I believe Carlos at age 20 is the youngest ATP player in the Open era to hold the USO and W Slams simultaneously.

Lleyton Hewitt was 21.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

AP,

If you are still around there is a post from JCF, Alcaraz's coach I posted on the previous page ( No 56), saying that the slice was important, not only to break Novak's rhythm, but to bring him forward off the baseline, it was an excellent tactic.

 

[Moxie]

Alcaraz:
said he was "really, really glad" to have won the second set.

“If not, probably I could have lost, you know, in the straight sets,” he said. “I just believe in myself all of the time.”

the key of match was second set breaker… novak had set point.. he has uncharacterist UFEs in tiebreaker where is is
usually unbreakable, limiting UFEs. In wimbledon final vs federer he had 0 UFE in 2 breakers! And had won like 15 breakers in a row. He couldn’t do the ‘lockdown’ mode vs carlos, you can maybe attribute it to carlos’ intimidating game.

had he won second, match over.

losing second was devastating, novak ended with with 18 UFE in just second set, he went away… that’s more UFes than some of his ufe in previous entire matches.

these matches come down to a point here and there. Novak could’ve lost many matches where he won (2019 wimbledon final, us open 11 semi) but he had some luck on his side. This time, carlos had the luck. In the end, carlos played a strong 5th set so he deserved it given how he finished. He could’ve gone away in 5th after losing 4th.

You clearly want to attribute this loss all to Novak, and that Carlos won on "luck." There were a fair number of net-cords that went Novak's way, IIRC. Point in, point out, there'll be a bit of luck on both sides. I'll give you that if Charly had gone down 2 sets to love, it would be hard to see a kid so green coming all the way back, but you can't know that, for sure. There are lots of theories, even on this forum, as to way Novak didn't play better, but you have to give SOME credit to the player on the other side of the net. And you do: Novak maybe couldn't go into "lockdown" because of Alcaraz's game. Sure he made uncharacteristic errors to lose that TB, but you have to ask yourself why?

Carlos played MUCH better in the 2nd set than in the first, and in the end, he played the better TB. IMO, the other key to the match was that 27 minute game where he broke Novak, finally, in the 3rd. Yes, Novak rallied in the 4th, but he got outplayed in the 5th. Did he underestimate Alcaraz? He as much as said so.

carlos has game to win many slams but the question is whether he’s durable. Some genetics play a role here, not all training. Delpo couldn’t escape injuries.. others struggled. Carlos has a muscular body and is explosive, i hope he has the bones, ligaments.. overall body composition that will help him be durable. You just never know….

There seems to be a certain amount of speculating around here as to how Alcaraz's body will hold up. Am I wrong to suspect this could be a bit of wishful thinking? He's 20, and still developing. Body and mind catching up to the rigors at the top of the Show. People speculated for ages as to how long Nadal's body would hold up, and, even though he's had a lot of injuries, he's still in, at 37, and he has 23 Majors. Rune's had cramping issues, too. Do I think he'll overcome them? Yes, I do.

 

[Jelenafan]

You clearly want to attribute this loss all to Novak, and that Carlos won on "luck." There were a fair number of net-cords that went Novak's way, IIRC. Point in, point out, there'll be a bit of luck on both sides. I'll give you that if Charly had gone down 2 sets to love, it would be hard to see a kid so green coming all the way back, but you can't know that, for sure. There are lots of theories, even on this forum, as to way Novak didn't play better, but you have to give SOME credit to the player on the other side of the net. And you do: Novak maybe couldn't go into "lockdown" because of Alcaraz's game. Sure he made uncharacteristic errors to lose that TB, but you have to ask yourself why?

Carlos played MUCH better in the 2nd set than in the first, and in the end, he played the better TB. IMO, the other key to the match was that 27 minute game where he broke Novak, finally, in the 3rd. Yes, Novak rallied in the 4th, but he got outplayed in the 5th. Did he underestimate Alcaraz? He as much as said so.

There seems to be a certain amount of speculating around here as to how Alcaraz's body will hold up. Am I wrong to suspect this could be a bit of wishful thinking? He's 20, and still developing. Body and mind catching up to the rigors at the top of the Show. People speculated for ages as to how long Nadal's body would hold up, and, even though he's had a lot of injuries, he's still in, at 37, and he has 23 Majors. Rune's had cramping issues, too. Do I think he'll overcome them? Yes, I do.

I seem to recall endless debates on young Novak’s fitness, physical toughness and endurance back in the day,

 

[Moxie]

I seem to recall endless debates on young Novak’s fitness, physical toughness and endurance back in the day,

How soon we forget. People have been resisting comparisons to all of the Big 3, (though the mountain of ink being spilled over them now should put that to rest.) But no one is saying that Charly is exactly Roger, and not Roger in 2004-06. Roger wasn't even "Roger" when he was 20. Only Rafa was a proven commodity at 20, and he didn't have the complete game of Charly.