2019 Roland Garros Men's Final: Rafael Nadal vs. Dominic Thiem

[GameSetAndMath]

Djokovic has a game that is close to perfection, no weaknesses. The only issue with him is that he lacks a finishing shot, especially on a slow court. He has one of the best backhands in the game, ever, and a great fh but his game is based on stepping in, taking ball early, changing directions and employing a 'death by a thousand cuts' tactic to dismember opponents. The usual Djoker point is to hit deep, make opponent move, wait for a short ball and go for winner. He also plays many points where he defends until opponents miss. What he doesn't have is a shot that he can use to hit winners off neutral positions, with ease. .

A fairly good characterization of Novak's game. I agree with it mostly.

But, for precisely that reason Novak's game is too boring to watch. It is almost robotic.

Rafa is actually more aggressive than Novak.

Actually, I enjoy watching Rafa's matches more than Novak's (but am not a fan of either one).

 

[Moxie]

If I would be one of those three posters I would be very quiet........don't pull my tongue.......

Don't count on that happening, Miss Carol. Pero felicidades hoy...¡ha ganado nuestro campeón, y no nos lo puedan ni quitar ni diminuir!

 

[Carol]

Don't count on that happening, Miss Carol. Pero felicidades hoy...¡ha ganado nuestro campeón, y no nos lo puedan ni quitar ni diminuir!

Lo mismo para ti Moxie, ha sido grandioso!!!!!

 

[shawnbm]

El toro mallorquín salió estupendo una vez más, pero no será el último. Ganará mas seguramente.

 

[MikeOne]

Tennis can be very strenuous if there are long rallies over and over. But the average point entails a few hard swings and some intense side-to-side movement. That is not as brutal as you are trying to make it sound.

You must not have played tennis competitively. When two good baselines are going at it, it is brutal... It requires explosive movements and oftentimes you have to stop yourself, change directions and yes, you get a few secs of break after each point but you have to go at the next point before you catch your breath! Tennis is physically demanding, wonder why so many injuries in tennis? The worst part about tennis is the changing of directions in explosive ways, this puts a lot of strain on your knees and hips. The other thing about tennis that wreaks havoc are the repetitive unnatural movements, to hit serves and fh's and bh's for hours is not natural for the body, it breaks down wrists, shoulders, elbows. Look at the back injuries for Fed, knee for Nadal, wrists for Del Po, hip for Andy, elbow and shoulder for Nole.

Why isn't Monfils the GOAT? Because of a number of mental and strategic reasons. I never said that athleticism was everything, so why are you arguing against a straw man argument?

Monfils is an athletic freak, i would compare him to any 6'4 basketball player you can name. Even so, he doesn't have much of an advantage physically vs Djokovic or Nadal on a tennis court. You seriously underestimate Djokovic and Nadal's athleticism, they are freaks. Again, your issue is that you don't play tennis competitively. As a guy that has played tennis competitively, i will tell you that athleticism is extremely important in tennis. I would say i'm average, with good strokes and a good serve. When i have played opponents that hit the ball less cleanly than me but are more athletic, it's a f challenge. They are able to run down more balls than me, they are able to use explosive movements to get to a ball and position themselves well, this is as important as actually having good technique and hitting ball cleanly. You seriously think Stephen Curry is more athletic than Djokovic or Nadal? What about Clay Thompson? these guys are some of the best basketball players around. Larry Bird was super athletic? I'm NOT arguing tennis players are more athletic, just that you underestimate the athleticism of some of the top tennis players and how tough tennis is to play, physically, at top level.

I simply said that calling the first set "brutal" is excessive on your part. There were some very strenuous rallies but I wouldn't call the set as a whole brutal.

that was brutal, for someone who actually plays tennis and knows tennis.

 

[Moxie]

El toro mallorquín salió estupendo una vez más, pero no será el último. Ganará mas seguramente.

Espero que sí. Gracias, Shawn. Siempre has sido muy igualado frente a Nadal y los demás de los greats.

 

[atttomole]

Si. Pero' non comprendo.

 

[Moxie]

Si. Pero' non comprendo.

I'm sorry we went off into Spanish. Do you want a translation? Or is it that you don't understand why Rafa won?

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I'm sorry we went off into Spanish. Do you want a translation? Or is it that you don't understand why Rafa won?

I

I can do it in Italian anyway I am off to bed now.This has been one of the most memorable RG Ever......Ash Barty winning her first maiden GS title and Rafa winning his 12th...............

 

[atttomole]

I'm sorry we went off into Spanish. Do you want a translation? Or is it that you don't understand why Rafa won?

No problem. I understood what Shawnbm posted, but I could get your first one to Carol. I don't mind a translation.

 

[Moxie]

I

I can do it in Italian anyway I am off to bed now.This has been one of the most memorable RG Ever......Ash Barty winning her first maiden GS title and Rafa winning his 12th...............

Oh, Margaret, you must be the happiest Frontierswoman of them all! It all broke your way. So happy for you. (And I didn't know that you speak Italian...parliamoci piu di questo doppo...ma, in tanto auguri!)

 

[DarthFed]

Darth..it takes more than just mph to have a great serve..What made McEnroe and Sampras so excellent is the combination of the positioning of their serves and their footwork to back up the serve. Roger is in the same class with Isner and Karlovic..The best serve under pressure is the body serve and the first step supporting volleys. This is what was Mac and Pete's bread and butter because it puts so much pressure on the returner even if it's Murray or Djokerbitch. I hope that answers your questions.

Man if you think Roger's serve is up there with Karlovic and Isner you must be smoking something good. It's not in the same universe as those guys. Roddick and Sampras also had much better serves. You may as well tell me Jordan was a better shooter than Curry.

 

[Moxie]

No problem. I understood what Shawnbm posted, but I could get your first one to Carol. I don't mind a translation.

I just said to Carol that re: certain folks who say terrible things, our champion won today, and they can't take it away from us or diminish it.

 

[DarthFed]

i find it interesting when these roger fans think they know what Roger's priorities should be or are and call it a mistake that he played at RG. Based on what? it's really based on cali's and DarthFed's priorities, not Roger's. Cali and DF just cannot sleep thinking Nadal or Djoker may surpass Fed in slams so now they are worried that RG took something out of roger. First and foremost, his road to semis was fairly routine, his only tough match was vs Stan. Secondly, he made semis... nice run for someone who hadn't played in many years. Lastly, maybe his priority was to experience RG once more, before he retires and making semis gave him a chance to stay in for a while and experience the whole thing... he prob has fond memories of the past. Maybe this is more important to him than extending slam lead... he is pushing 40, Roger will not be around too much longer. WHO are these toads to call out Roger on his priorities? lol.. Roger's mind is Roger's, it doesn't belong to these guys and these guys need to stop losing sleep over Nadal or joker one day maybe surpassing Fed...

Get off your high horse. These guys do not have limitless energy especially someone Roger's age. If he plays Halle and makes the final that is 16 matches in less than 7 weeks leading up to Wimbledon including 11 on clay and 6 best of 5. This is simply not ideal. And yes it is all about priorities at this point.

If you think he shouldn't be prioritizing the slam chase over sentimental crap at a tournament/surface he had no prayer on then you are a fucking idiot. And what fond memories does he have? Not many in Paris, I can think of 1 only. France has been his worst country FFS. The Frenchies love him and he is sadly giving into sentiments instead of focusing on what counts. The worst thing he can do is worry about "fans seeing him one last time"

More likely your tirade is self-serving because you are glad Roger wasted energy here as well as dishing out another walk in the park win to Nadal. The majors will end up determining his career, that is common sense.

 

[Moxie]

Get off your high horse. These guys do not have limitless energy especially someone Roger's age. If he plays Halle and makes the final that is 16 matches in less than 7 weeks leading up to Wimbledon including 11 on clay and 6 best of 5. This is simply not ideal. And yes it is all about priorities at this point.

If you think he shouldn't be prioritizing the slam chase over sentimental crap at a tournament/surface he had no prayer on then you are a fucking idiot. And what fond memories does he have? Not many in Paris, I can think of 1 only. France has been his worst country FFS. The Frenchies love him and he is sadly giving into sentiments instead of focusing on what counts. The worst thing he can do is worry about "fans seeing him one last time"

More likely your tirade is self-serving because you are glad Roger wasted energy here as well as dishing out another walk in the park win to Nadal. The majors will end up determining his career, that is common sense.

No, he said what I said. You don't know Roger's mind. Too bad if you think it was the wrong decision...it's what Roger wanted to do.

 

[atttomole]

I just said to Carol that re: certain folks who say terrible things, our champion won today, and they can't take it away from us or diminish it.

Many thanks. I hope you understand why we Fed fans think that our favorite underachieved. Many of us think that Federer deserves a lot more than he has now considering his ability.

 

[Moxie]

Many thanks. I hope you understand why we Fed fans think that our favorite underachieved. Many of us think that Federer deserves a lot more than he has now considering his ability.

I do understand why you think he's fabulous and amazing. Because he is. But I can't buy into the notion that he has "underachieved." He's achieved a lot. What you have to recognize, from the perspective of other fans, is that, if Roger 'should' have done more, he takes it from mostly Rafa and Novak. We're not willing to give that over. And sometimes he's just going to get beaten...that does happen, even to TMF, and it has. "Underachieving" is not a theoretical thing. It speaks to specific losses. So every time some Fed fan says that he's underachieved, they're saying that some win over Federer was less than legitimate. IMO, it's an arrogant perspective, and it doesn't give appreciation to those that have beaten him.

 

[DarthFed]

No, he said what I said. You don't know Roger's mind. Too bad if you think it was the wrong decision...it's what Roger wanted to do.

Again your comments look more self-serving. You posed the question a few days ago whether Roger making the semis here and possibly playing grass warmups could be a problem. Common sense says it probably isn't ideal for a guy going on 38. We actually do know Roger's mind here. He wanted to play clay including RG and he probably doesn't see the match play as a potential issue. Dangerous thinking IMO. Full energy going into Wimbledon should be all he cares about "in my opinion". I guess I should put that phrase in every sentence I type to avoid certain nazis from teeing off on valid opinions.

This thinking is based on the simple logic that he had no real chance of doing anything on clay. Of course you clowns will talk up a semifinal result here as something impressive when he predictably couldn't come close to making it a match as soon as he got to one of the big boys. Even Thiem would have blasted him at RG. Nole under normal conditions would have too though Roger would have had a serious chance in a wind storm against him it must be said. Bottom line is Roger's chances to win RG were less than 1% higher than mine so all he accomplished was just going through the motions and showing up for some fan applause when he could have been resting up. I hope it doesn't hurt him for a tournament he desperately needs if he wants to keep a great legacy by the end.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I do understand why you think he's fabulous and amazing. Because he is. But I can't buy into the notion that he has "underachieved." He's achieved a lot. What you have to recognize, from the perspective of other fans, is that, if Roger 'should' have done more, he takes it from mostly Rafa and Novak. We're not willing to give that over. And sometimes he's just going to get beaten...that does happen, even to TMF, and it has. "Underachieving" is not a theoretical thing. It speaks to specific losses. So every time some Fed fan says that he's underachieved, they're saying that some win over Federer was less than legitimate. IMO, it's an arrogant perspective, and it doesn't give appreciation to those that have beaten him.

Moxie, you hit it right on the point. There's nothing in Federer's career resume that tells me he has underachieve in my opinion. I mean he pretty much have most of the important tennis records on his career. I mean if 8 Wimbledons, 6 AO, 5 US Opens, 6 World tour finals, most weeks at number 1, and closing in for the most titles in the Open Era is considered "underachieving" then the other players should just not play tennis anymore, right?

 

[DarthFed]

If you go by pure statistics, Roddick was more successful, but I agree that his overall far superior game is ultimately what has given Federer 20 majors, and Roddick only 1.


View attachment 2282 View attachment 2283

This shows Roddicks service stats are slightly better down the line than Federer's. And given the difference in their overall games backing up their serve it proves pretty definitively that Roddick's serve was vastly superior. Roddick's serve kind of is underappreciated as he had good placement and he also hit a solid %. Roger of course has better placement but speed kills and landing 3% less first serves is pretty significant as well.