2019 Roland Garros Men's Final: Rafael Nadal vs. Dominic Thiem

Who wins?


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calitennis127

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0 to do with his schedule, it was Nadal's brutal rallies and intensity... he was mentally down, not physically.... Nadal does that to you. Remember when Nadal crushed Tsitsipas at AO and made Tsitsi look physically and mentally wasted? Tsitsi wasn't tired... Nadal got to him...

Thiem was 100% fine physically, he even said he was fresher than last year... it was Nadal's style of defense/offsense that got to Thiem, mentally. The brutality of those long rallies in first set, Thiem having to hit 2-3 extra shots and at the same time Nadal using offense to move Thiem to every corner of the court... It is a challenge, for even a Thiem with 4 days of rest.

That's all besides the point, Mike. I agree that fatigue wasn't the main issue but a one-handed backhand just doesn't work against Nadal. That's why I thought Thiem had no chance.

Also, like McEnroe said, Thiem was trying to return from the tunnel. That gave Nadal dozens of cheap points on serve. I don't think this was a case of Nadal brutalizing Thiem physically as much as Thiem not being able to sustain high-level baseline play with a one-handed backhand (as well as gifting Nadal 20-25 points throughout the match by standing in the tunnel on returns of serve).
 

Andy22

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Nadal could be at 19 grand slam titles by the end of the season he's always making deep runs at USO won it 3 times.
 

calitennis127

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re-watch that first set... that was brutal.. i mean, brutal! even a super fresh Thiem would've been affected by that..

Nadal has won 12 RG for a reason, remember Stan's annihilation in 2017? You have to do something special to beat him...

Nadal was great after Thiem got the break at 3-2. Prior to that Thiem had the edge. I definitely think Djokovic would have won that first set because he would have warded off Nadal's higher gear. Thiem could not because of the shoddy backhand.
 

calitennis127

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it's common sense. Thiem is used to playing 2 out of 3 sets all year round, without a single day's rest. He has many times played 3 sets on two consecutive days and it hasn't bothered him. So he played 3 easy sets th, 2.5 sets fri and 2.5 sets sat? in cool conditions with some breaks (rain delays)... You seriously think that a guy who is used to playing 2-3 sets daily, for a full week, on most tournaments without rest can't handle this? think about that, carefully...

the first set was brutal and the second set too... even a Thiem with 2-3 days rest could've gone down 1,1 in last two sets... i've seen Nadal do this to the best over and over again...

The first set wasn't "brutal." You are just saying that because you're a pu$$y who does not watch any other sports. Lol
 

calitennis127

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what a cowardly mentality and from a sore loser, Mr. Nadal hater. Federer was 5-0 vs Nadal after he changed his game, tactics and even racquet. He has great experiences at Roland so he was excited to play. The result was not disappointing, he made semis and lost to Nadal is hurricane conditions. I think he is happy with his 2 weeks here, overall. sore loser fans...

Lol.....are you seriously saying that playing Nadal at Indian Wells or the Australian Open is like playing him at Roland Garros?

Federer has had his chances against Nadal on clay dozens of times. I respect your fighter's mentality but Federer clearly has had no idea how to approach Nadal. He admitted as much after the semifinal when he said "I have no idea how to play against him."
 

calitennis127

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Thiem is better than Djokovic on clay, his game is better suited for clay... I favored Thiem in semis even though i wanted Joker in final badly, Djoker is my favorite, along with Nadal. Thiem has a massive heavy forehand and Djoker seems to need Thiem to miss, in order to win. Thiem just has a better game for clay...

No he doesn't, are you f-ing serious? Djokovic has multiple Masters Series titles at clay. He has won every Masters event on clay. Djokovic is clearly a better returner on clay and is more dominant from the baseline if he is being aggressive with the backhand. Thiem's resume on clay does not match up to Djokovic's, nor does his game to the eye test.

Stop talking up Thiem just because you want to hype Nadal right now. It's ridiculous.
 

Bonaca

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Nadal could be at 19 grand slam titles by the end of the season he's always making deep runs at USO won it 3 times.
Sure he could, but in New York he will possibly become lot more problems not named Djokovic. Let’s keep realistic, he still is only the favourite at the French. Everywhere else it’s Novak. Man I can agree with the fact it’s only about these two Aliens of tennis. You can’t imagine how much I would like to have seen our two guys in this final. It would be the best tennis has to offer on this surface, and maybe on every surface.
 

Bonaca

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No he doesn't, are you f-ing serious? Djokovic has multiple Masters Series titles at clay. He has won every Masters event on clay. Djokovic is clearly a better returner on clay and is more dominant from the baseline if he is being aggressive with the backhand. Thiem's resume on clay does not match up to Djokovic's, nor does his game to the eye test.

Stop talking up Thiem just because you want to hype Nadal right now. It's ridiculous.
I absolutely agree with Cali . It was only about Novak, but he should have shown his a game, and he didn’t. Even with b game he nearly won.
 

MikeOne

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Lol same silly bullshit out of you. Of course you, a Roger hater who wants him to slide into irrelevance wants him to do stuff that jeopardizes his chances at Wimbledon. If the man is prioritizing sentimental crap over winning more majors he is an idiot. I doubt he has lost all ambition, he just made a mistake, especially if he's dumb enough to play Halle. By the way when have I ever hated on Novak, that's your imagination.
who are you to set roger's priorities?
 
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MikeOne

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No way I would have said that Nadal was lucky to avoid Thiem. I did not think that Thiem had more than a 10% chance because of the one-handed backhand.

I was very disapponted all day after Djokovic lost yesterday, believe me.

And yes, I know that Djokovic struggles with Wawrinka/Thiem. I actually started a thread today about that but Tented deleted it because he loves censorship and mind control. What I said in the post was that Djokovic does a miserable job of handling tight service games against those two. If Djokovic is up 30-0 or 3-15 on his own serve against Wawrinka/Thiem, he turns constipated and starts muscling short balls up the middle of the court like he hasn't played tennis in 5 months and is just trying to stay alive.
If Djokovic couldn't beat Thiem and let thiem bully him around the court, he didn't deserve to be in finals. Djokovic is vulnerable to guys like Thiem and Stan who can hit through the court and hit heavy.... he has to show he can handle that type of power to deserve being in finals. Don't get me wrong, Djoker is one of my favorites but he frustrates me when he looks so vulnerable against guys like Thiem and Stan. I thought Thiem was going to win that match, Thiem has a better clay court game. He generates insane power and spin with his fh.
 

tented

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As a stand alone shot Roger's serve is clearly inferior to Roddick's. I'm not even sure how it's debatable. Roger may be about as hard to break as Roddick but that is due to having a far superior game to back up his serve.

If you go by pure statistics, Roddick was more successful, but I agree that his overall far superior game is ultimately what has given Federer 20 majors, and Roddick only 1.


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the AntiPusher

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Do you also think Roger serves better than Isner and Karlovic?
Darth..it takes more than just mph to have a great serve..What made McEnroe and Sampras so excellent is the combination of the positioning of their serves and their footwork to back up the serve. Roger is in the same class with Isner and Karlovic..The best serve under pressure is the body serve and the first step supporting volleys. This is what was Mac and Pete's bread and butter because it puts so much pressure on the returner even if it's Murray or Djokerbitch. I hope that answers your questions.
 

the AntiPusher

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If you go by pure statistics, Roddick was more successful, but I agree that his overall far superior game is ultimately what has given Federer 20 majors, and Roddick only 1.


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there's two sides to that coin.. Andy's stats mostly stop at the round of 16 or quarters rounds..whereas Roger's stats flow far later into the tournament where he is facing the upper escutcheon of return of servers..I would like to see Andy stats vs Nadal, Federer, Djokerbitch and Murray instead of the like of Blake and Tommy Roberto.
 

Bonaca

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If Djokovic couldn't beat Thiem and let thiem bully him around the court, he didn't deserve to be in finals. Djokovic is vulnerable to guys like Thiem and Stan who can hit through the court and hit heavy.... he has to show he can handle that type of power to deserve being in finals. Don't get me wrong, Djoker is one of my favorites but he frustrates me when he looks so vulnerable against guys like Thiem and Stan. I thought Thiem was going to win that match, Thiem has a better clay court game. He generates insane power and spin with his fh.
He frustrates me heavily too, but to me in those matches he lost, he left the impression that it was about his game and not the game of Stan or Thiem. By the way he won significantly more matches against these two.
Surely he didn’t deserve to be in the final when not able to put thiem away.
So fucking disappointing!!!
 

MargaretMcAleer

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Just a wonderful stat for Rafa after winning RG 12 times,

Most titles at a single major (male or female) in tennis history.

Rafa said in his press conference,

'I love to play on grass but I'm not able to play on grass a lot of weeks in a row.'

So he won't play before Wimbledon.
 

rafanoy1992

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I just want to leave a statistic here:

In 12 Roland Garros finals that Nadal has participated since 2005, not single one went to a fifth set. The only player to even have a set point in the 4th set against Nadal is Puerta (Puerta actually had a 40-0 lead on his own serve). Ever since that final, nobody had a sniff of a set point against Nadal during the 4th set. In fairness, Federer did force a 4th set tiebreaker in 2006.

So basically,

12-0 in finals
36-7 in sets W/L (not single one went to a fifth set)

So it's very hard enough to win three sets against Nadal on Clay at Roland Garros, but to win two sets in the finals against him is equally very hard.
 
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MikeOne

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He frustrates me heavily too, but to me in those matches he lost, he left the impression that it was about his game and not the game of Stan or Thiem. By the way he won significantly more matches against these two.
Surely he didn’t deserve to be in the final when not able to put thiem away.
So fucking disappointing!!!

When Djoker lost to Stan in RG finals, i made no excuses. Unlike some of the fed fanboys here who always make excuses for Fed, i don't make excuses for Rafa or Djoker when i think they meet a player who matches up well against them. When Djoker dominated a red hot Nadal in 7 straight finals in 2011, i made no excuses... Djoker, especially on hards, is a nightmare for Rafa.

Djokovic has a game that is close to perfection, no weaknesses. The only issue with him is that he lacks a finishing shot, especially on a slow court. He has one of the best backhands in the game, ever, and a great fh but his game is based on stepping in, taking ball early, changing directions and employing a 'death by a thousand cuts' tactic to dismember opponents. The usual Djoker point is to hit deep, make opponent move, wait for a short ball and go for winner. He also plays many points where he defends until opponents miss. What he doesn't have is a shot that he can use to hit winners off neutral positions, with ease. Del potro, Stan, Thiem have that. On a fast court, it's not a big deal as Djoker can hit many winners on fast courts by taking ball early... on clay, different story. When Djoker, at his best, faces an in form Thiem or Stan on clay, he seems to almost be 'surviving'.. I always feel Stan or Thiem can end the point easily whilst Djoker has to work for it, hit 2-4 shots to maybe get a short ball. Thiem or Stan can just out of nowhere end the point... Not many can do this but on clay, this is hard to handle for a guy like Novak... you can't just defend against that type of power, you have to counter it with your own power, which novak lacks a bit of on clay, relative to Thiem and Stan.
 
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tented

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I just want to leave a statistic here:

In 12 Roland Garros finals that Nadal has participated since 2005, not single one went to a fifth set. The only player to even have a set point in the 4th set against Nadal is Puerta (Puerta actually had a 40-0 lead on his own serve). Ever since that final, nobody had a sniff of a set point against Nadal during the 4th set. In fairness, Federer did force a 4th set tiebreaker in 2006.

So basically,

12-0 in finals
36-7 in sets W/L (not single one went to a fifth set)

So it's very hard enough to win three sets against Nadal on Clay at Roland Garros, but to win two sets in the finals against him is equally very hard.

Not equally hard, since one has been done (winning two sets) and the other hasn’t (winning three), but I would say “also very hard.”