2019 Next 'Next Gen' Talk

[tented]

May I ask how come there is no american tennis player in the top of the rankings and fighting for grand slams? Querry and Isner had their moments in Wimbledon SF 17/18, but no one actually tought they can take it.

You're right, and they didn't.

Historically US players had at least one top guy in each era, but since Roddick nobody seems to step up. I see a lot of young guys appear, but also disappear. I assume Tiafoe should become top 10 if he doesn't break his elbow with that weird FH. Can he go deep in slams I don't know yet. Can Fritz be a late bloomer?

I don't follow every sport, but I have noticed during the last two Olympics, for example, that athletes from the US haven't been doing well -- or at least not as well as they generally used to. The same with tennis, obviously. In retrospect, I've developed much more respect for Roddick than I had while he was still playing. Despite the frustrations of playing in this era of the Big Three, Roddick nevertheless stayed in the Top 10 for years. To me, that showed a lot of effort and skill, which we now painfully see in no other American.

I'm not seeing anyone on the horizon, either, who I think is going to be great, or even be a constant presence in the Top 10. There are a few younger guys, such as Tiafoe, Fritz, and Opelka, but I don't see any of them becoming future greats. There's no equivalent of, say, FAA or Tsitsipas.

One major problem has been the near uselessness of US players in the clay season. This was a problem with Roddick, too. (Did he ever win a title on clay? I have no memory of that, unless it was that 250 in Houston.) Even Sampras was significantly less of a threat on clay, even during his peak years. You have to go back to Jim Courier and Agassi to find Americans who were successful at Roland Garros, and Agassi won 20 years ago.

 

[don_fabio]

You're right, and they didn't.



I don't follow every sport, but I have noticed during the last two Olympics, for example, that athletes from the US haven't been doing well -- or at least not as well as they generally used to. The same with tennis, obviously. In retrospect, I've developed much more respect for Roddick than I had while he was still playing. Despite the frustrations of playing in this era of the Big Three, Roddick nevertheless stayed in the Top 10 for years. To me, that showed a lot of effort and skill, which we now painfully see in no other American.

I'm not seeing anyone on the horizon, either, who I think is going to be great, or even be a constant presence in the Top 10. There are a few younger guys, such as Tiafoe, Fritz, and Opelka, but I don't see any of them becoming future greats. There's no equivalent of, say, FAA or Tsitsipas.

One major problem has been the near uselessness of US players in the clay season. This was a problem with Roddick, too. (Did he ever win a title on clay? I have no memory of that, unless it was that 250 in Houston.) Even Sampras was significantly less of a threat on clay, even during his peak years. You have to go back to Jim Courier and Agassi to find Americans who were successful at Roland Garros, and Agassi won 20 years ago.

I have big respect for Roddick. He had his limitations, but I always liked him. When he played that epic wimbledon against Fed, I wanted him to win and later felt so sorry for him. Roddick had a great career with many titles won. He is in my opinion someone who explored his potential really well though as I mentioned he had limitations. Okay, I was a tennager back than, but that's how I saw it.

Agree that clay is a big issue for americans. I don't remember anyone winning on red clay anything in Europe tourneys since Agassi. Maybe Blake had some win on american clay and perhaps Roddick too. I don't remember. I guess the fundamental problem is that none of the american players are raised on clay.

I am still surprised by the lack of talent compared to how many guys play tennis over there. Perhaps things will change for the better in a future.

 

[El Dude]

I'm not seeing anyone on the horizon, either, who I think is going to be great, or even be a constant presence in the Top 10. There are a few younger guys, such as Tiafoe, Fritz, and Opelka, but I don't see any of them becoming future greats. There's no equivalent of, say, FAA or Tsitsipas.

I'll second this. Those three young players could be somewhere in the range of Isner/Querrey/Sock, but none look like another Roddick, and there is certainly no Sampras or Agassi on the horizon. The future of men's tennis--as with the present and recent past--is not American.

Here's a fun tidbit: the highest ranking American teenage male is Sebastian Korda, 18 years old at #391 (turns 19 in July). He's Petr's son. After him you have another 18-year old, Jenson Brooksby, at #501.

 

[don_fabio]

Here's a fun tidbit: the highest ranking American teenage male is Sebastian Korda, 18 years old at #391 (turns 19 in July). He's Petr's son.

Glad you pulled him out, totally forgot that he is actually playing tennis and even won junior AO last year. Can't believe he is following his father's footsteps. Hope he also does the scissor kick like the father, that would be cool.

 

[herios]

I have big respect for Roddick. He had his limitations, but I always liked him. When he played that epic wimbledon against Fed, I wanted him to win and later felt so sorry for him. Roddick had a great career with many titles won. He is in my opinion someone who explored his potential really well though as I mentioned he had limitations. Okay, I was a tennager back than, but that's how I saw it.

Agree that clay is a big issue for americans. I don't remember anyone winning on red clay anything in Europe tourneys since Agassi. Maybe Blake had some win on american clay and perhaps Roddick too. I don't remember. I guess the fundamental problem is that none of the american players are raised on clay.

I am still surprised by the lack of talent compared to how many guys play tennis over there. Perhaps things will change for the better in a future.

@don_fabio, there was one American player after Agassi who won an event in clay in Europe, at least.
In 2010, in Belgrade, it was an all American final between the two towers, Querrey and Isner, with Sam winning.

 

[don_fabio]

@don_fabio, there was one American player after Agassi who won an event in clay in Europe, at least.
In 2010, in Belgrade, it was an all American final between the two towers, Querrey and Isner, with Sam winning.

Amazing info. To have an american winner is surprising enough, but all american final with two giants? I am in disbelief.

 

[herios]

Amazing info. To have an american winner is surprising enough, but all american final with two giants? I am in disbelief.

You are from Croatia, right? Did you not follow that event back than?

 

[don_fabio]

You are from Croatia, right? Did you not follow that event back than?

Belgrade is in Serbia, it is close, but is still another country (with almost same language so we understand each other)

That tournye was 9 years ago and that time is still blurry to me. Not long after graduation and was partying hard so at times I followed tennis less than in the past few years.

edit:

Back then broadcasting of tennis on cable TV was also less often than today, especially those 250s so it was relatively easy to miss. Now with growing popularity of tennis we have a channel with full coverage of masters and 500s, plus selected 250s like this week they showed Lyon tourney.

 

[herios]

Belgrade is in Serbia, it is close, but is still another country (with almost same language so we understand each other)

That tournye was 9 years ago and that time is still blurry to me. Not long after graduation and was partying hard so at times I followed tennis less than in the past few years.

edit:

Back then broadcasting of tennis on cable TV was also less often than today, especially those 250s so it was relatively easy to miss. Now with growing popularity of tennis we have a channel with full coverage of masters and 500s, plus selected 250s like this week they showed Lyon tourney.

I was not aware how long ago you became a fan and followed tennis.
On another note, you tried to teach some European geography the wrong person. I am born in Romania and lived not far from the Serbian border before becoming Canadian

 

[don_fabio]

I was not aware how long ago you became a fan and followed tennis.
On another note, you tried to teach some European geography the wrong person. I am born in Romania and lived not far from the Serbian border before becoming Canadian

I was not aware of your roots I follow tennis from the mid 90s, I grew up with it.

 

[herios]

NextGen final in Houston: Garin vs. Ruud. Garin is up to #61 in live rankings, Ruud #68 (after being stuck in the low 100s for over a year, if I remember correctly).

Following today's outcome in RG, reverse of fortunes:
Garin won in Houston, in the slam Ruud performs better getting I to the top 32, Garin failing.

 

[herios]

After watching today a big chunk of this match against Thiem, I concluded that Bublik has very good potential. He is really skilled, will just have to play more disciplined and with better shot sekecton.
Probably will have to switch coaches, his father is not the best choice.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Shapo in big slump. With his loss to JMDP in the opening round at Queens, he is now 2-9 in the last 11 matches since the beginning of the clay season. He however still maintains #3 position in the race to Milan (though surpassed by countryman FAA).

 

[don_fabio]

Shapo in big slump. With his loss to JMDP in the opening round at Queens, he is now 2-9 in the last 11 matches since the beginning of the clay season. He however still maintains #3 position in the race to Milan (though surpassed by countryman FAA).

Yeah, his season apart from AO is not so good. I don't remember if he did well in any other tournament. Was it in sunshine double he had one QF? He makes way too many UEs. He is still only 20y old so plenty of time to improve. He will probably improve his results once he is back on his continent, he likes it there on HCs.

 

[Moxie]

Yeah, his season apart from AO is not so good. I don't remember if he did well in any other tournament. Was it in sunshine double he had one QF? He makes way too many UEs. He is still only 20y old so plenty of time to improve. He will probably improve his results once he is back on his continent, he likes it there on HCs.

For sure he's young, so there's no need to panic. To me, he's like an unbroken horse. He needs to learn to harness some of that power and energy into a coherent game. A certain lack of discipline, go-for-itness, is kind of charming in the young, but it gets old, and I'm sure losing is getting old for him. I think he'll get bridled at some point and turn into a real force.

 

[herios]

Yeah, his season apart from AO is not so good. I don't remember if he did well in any other tournament. Was it in sunshine double he had one QF? He makes way too many UEs. He is still only 20y old so plenty of time to improve. He will probably improve his results once he is back on his continent, he likes it there on HCs.

He did better than you remember, albeit once. And it was not at AO where he was at his best, it was in Miami where he reached the SF.

 

[El Dude]

For sure he's young, so there's no need to panic. To me, he's like an unbroken horse. He needs to learn to harness some of that power and energy into a coherent game. A certain lack of discipline, go-for-itness, is kind of charming in the young, but it gets old, and I'm sure losing is getting old for him. I think he'll get bridled at some point and turn into a real force.

I agree but am also worried by the fact that there seems to be little to no progress. He's now been in the top 100 for almost two years, top 50 for 20 months, and top 30 for over a year. You want to see more steady improvement from a player his age. At the least I think his stalling out points to a slightly lower upside than it might have seemed a year and a half ago.

I think he'll eventually be a top 10 player and a Slam contender, but I now put him #4 on the "future potential power rankings" - behind Auger-Aliassime, Tsitsipas, and Zverev.

 

[Moxie]

I agree but am also worried by the fact that there seems to be little to no progress. He's now been in the top 100 for almost two years, top 50 for 20 months, and top 30 for over a year. You want to see more steady improvement from a player his age. At the least I think his stalling out points to a slightly lower upside than it might have seemed a year and a half ago.

I think he'll eventually be a top 10 player and a Slam contender, but I now put him #4 on the "future potential power rankings" - behind Auger-Aliassime, Tsitsipas, and Zverev.

I don't know that you need to "rank" him, even though you like to. He's still full of raw talent. And he's 20. He's got a huge upside. No progress? One thing that I don't think serves these youngsters is an upset over an elite player early on. (I'll cautiously mention Kyrgios here.) It puts them on the radar perhaps before they are ready to be. Maybe we should set the oven at a low 250, and let them bake more slowly. We haven't seen a youngster so ready for his close-up since Rafa, but I don't think that it's fair to compare them to him. Maybe FAA, but let's not burn them out, or over-estimate. Time is on their side.

 

[herios]

I don't know that you need to "rank" him, even though you like to. He's still full of raw talent. And he's 20. He's got a huge upside. No progress? One thing that I don't think serves these youngsters is an upset over an elite player early on. (I'll cautiously mention Kyrgios here.) It puts them on the radar perhaps before they are ready to be. Maybe we should set the oven at a low 250, and let them bake more slowly. We haven't seen a youngster so ready for his close-up since Rafa, but I don't think that it's fair to compare them to him. Maybe FAA, but let's not burn them out, or over-estimate. Time is on their side.

I agree with you. As we know by now, an early break out could turn into a bust, Donald Young is a living example. Ryan Harrison is not far behind.
Not all teenagers who show up on the radar early on will be great or even very good.
And I would definitely not rank them. That most likely will not turn out as I was expecting and would bite me in the rear end.

 

[Moxie]

I agree with you. As we know by now, an early break out could turn into a bust, Donald Young is a living example. Ryan Harrison is not far behind.
Not all teenagers who show up on the radar early on will be great or even very good.
And I would definitely not rank them. That most likely will not turn out as I was expecting and would bite me in the rear end.

Bernard Tomic, anyone?