2018 NBA Playoffs

[DarthFed]

Okay..I wasn’t sure..It’s not fair to compare Lebron to MJ. That’s like comparing Lebron to Wilt. MJ was 6-6 190-205..Lebron is 6-9 255..Lebron is right behind Jordan with Kobe on the right side of Lebron..LoL

I got the unsexy Kareem as my #2, that guy always gets overlooked. After this year I might slide up LBJ to #3, he's in that group there with Russell, Magic, and Wilt. Kobe is well in their rearview.

I wonder LeBron's true weight, I hear it's as high as 270. Either way the guy shouldn't be able to do the things he does, it's nuts. Football and a lot of other sports are happy he chose bball, let's just say that.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I got the unsexy Kareem as my #2, that guy always gets overlooked. After this year I might slide up LBJ to #3, he's in that group there with Russell, Magic, and Wilt. Kobe is well in their rearview.

I wonder LeBron's true weight, I hear it's as high as 270. Either way the guy shouldn't be able to do the things he does, it's nuts. Football and a lot of other sports are happy he chose bball, let's just say that.

I have Kareem as my number 2 as well but as you say he is the unsexy Goliath who didn’t have a lot of charisma.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I thought the Pacers were fantastic. They should have won. But even there let's take a step back and think about it. Oladipo was discarded from OKC. He comes over to the East and becomes a franchise player for a team that should have beaten Lebron? That says something to me

Oladipo spent 4 years in Orlando (in the East) and was almost the same player he was in OKC. So his level in Indiana is not really the result of changing conferences, but rather him improving as a player. He openly talked about getting in shape in the off season (it was all over social media in the summer about how his body changed), credited Westbrook for inspiring his work ethic (he initially did it thinking he'd be back in OKC), and simply improved. He probably wouldn't be an all-star in the West because it's loaded with great guards, but I don't think his level would be anything less than what he's been showing. There's no doubt the West is the better conference, by far, but using a player's improvement as proof of that is a bit of a stretch.

 

[brokenshoelace]

So you think it's more of an indictment of OKC than anything else? I don't recall anyone thinking Oladipo was this good though

Still it has to be said, OKC is demonstrating profligacy on a par with Chelsea in the EPL. How a team can let go of the two players in contention for POTY (Debruyne and Salah) is quite beyond me

Nobody thought Oladipo was this good and like I said above, he had spent 4 years in Orlando being a 16 ppg guy. When the Paul George trade happened, everybody thought OKC flat out conned Indiana, and called it a terrible trade for Indi. They let go of Oladipo because they were getting a better player in return.

I don't know who the other player you're referring to but if it's Harden, then that's a whole other topic.

 

[DarthFed]

The point is that if the riposte about lack of rings is the consecutive finals then the level of competition in the East becomes a factor in the debate. As I said I think he's great, but I do find it a bit irritating that people are going nuts over him because of his playoff performance (which I think has been phenomenal btw) and many are giving him the GOAT title for this run, when he'll probably get smashed in the final again this year

I don't see many giving him the GOAT title at all and those that have aren't doing it based on this run. He's had more longevity than Jordan already and most that would give him the title are mostly doing it for shock value or to be contrarians. There are a bunch of things LeBron does better than Jordan did and vice versa, I think that's why he gets a lot of hate. No one in this country ever wants to see MJ eclipsed or even equaled. The hate for LeBron, at least in this country, is at an insane level and it isn't at all about The Decision anymore.

Also it's a little misleading to say "he will get smashed in the finals again". The guy had one of the best finals performances in history last year and it didn't come close to mattering. It just isn't a 1-on-1 sport.

 

[brokenshoelace]

"He's going to get smashed in the finals again" is particularly unfair considering it's going to take literally the most talented team ever assembled to do it, and they had to assemble that team because he handed them their asses despite them going 73-9 in the regular season, and they had only beaten him the previous year because Kyrie and Kevin Love went down.

The fact that Kevin Durant has to join a 73-win team in order for both of those guys to beat Lebron says it all really.

 

[Federberg]

"He's going to get smashed in the finals again" is particularly unfair considering it's going to take literally the most talented team ever assembled to do it, and they had to assemble that team because he handed them their asses despite them going 73-9 in the regular season, and they had only beaten him the previous year because Kyrie and Kevin Love went down.

The fact that Kevin Durant has to join a 73-win team in order for both of those guys to beat Lebron says it all really.

you see this is what I don't get. It took a questionable call on Draymond and Curry not being fit for the Cavs to win. But I hear many folks say Curry choked and they got handed a beating. Yet questioning the depth of competition Lebron has faced over the years to get to finals and I get resistance. Seems a bit unbalanced to me

 

[DarthFed]

you see this is what I don't get. It took a questionable call on Draymond and Curry not being fit for the Cavs to win. But I hear many folks say Curry choked and they got handed a beating. Yet questioning the depth of competition Lebron has faced over the years to get to finals and I get resistance. Seems a bit unbalanced to me

Golden State won the year before due to injury. They were 1-1 before KD and they were probably pretty fortunate that was the case because they played like ass in 2015 and LeBron almost singlehandedly beat them. Green being suspended was not a questionable call, LeBron baited him and he hit him in the balls like he did 2-3 times earlier in the playoffs. He probably should've been suspended against OKC. I don't remember Curry being that banged up, he often has injuries he's playing with, to me his main problem in the playoffs is "playoff defense". Curry is one of those guys who gets a bit worse in the playoffs and that's most players.

The reason the playoffs are so exciting to watch is that teams are playing all out for a change. Going nuts in the regular season doesn't matter at all if they can be shut down when teams are trying. This is what separates LeBron from everyone, he is more difficult to stop in the playoffs because he barely tries at all during the regular season. The problem with competition is it is always subjective and Stephen A was flat wrong anyways. Rose was MVP in 2011, and in 2012 you had KG, Pierce and Allen who were all still stars. The Pacers were pretty good for many years as well. I'd say the competition since he came back to Cleveland has been weaker out East but look at the team he's dragging this year and in 2015. It's incredible and not something to really be taken for granted, this team would struggle to win 25 games if you replaced James with the average SF

 

[Federberg]

Golden State won the year before due to injury. They were 1-1 before KD and they were probably pretty fortunate that was the case because they played like ass in 2015 and LeBron almost singlehandedly beat them. Green being suspended was not a questionable call, LeBron baited him and he hit him in the balls like he did 2-3 times earlier in the playoffs. He probably should've been suspended against OKC. I don't remember Curry being that banged up, he often has injuries he's playing with, to me his main problem in the playoffs is "playoff defense". Curry is one of those guys who gets a bit worse in the playoffs and that's most players.

The reason the playoffs are so exciting to watch is that teams are playing all out for a change. Going nuts in the regular season doesn't matter at all if they can be shut down when teams are trying. This is what separates LeBron from everyone, he is more difficult to stop in the playoffs because he barely tries at all during the regular season. The problem with competition is it is always subjective and Stephen A was flat wrong anyways. Rose was MVP in 2011, and in 2012 you had KG, Pierce and Allen who were all still stars. The Pacers were pretty good for many years as well. I'd say the competition since he came back to Cleveland has been weaker out East but look at the team he's dragging this year and in 2015. It's incredible and not something to really be taken for granted, this team would struggle to win 25 games if you replaced James with the average SF

Curry was injured mate. I urge you to look into that

As for the Dubs being lucky the previous year one can also say - should also say - that the Cavs were lucky that year. Can’t have it both ways

 

[DarthFed]

Curry had been back for a few weeks, the fact of the matter is he hasn't really performed that strongly in the playoffs aside from last year when KD joined the team which of course took tons of pressure off of him.

 

[Federberg]

^I'm not sure that narrative is all that accurate to be honest. His stats are decent...

http://www.landofbasketball.com/all_time_leaders/points_per_game_career_playoffs.htm

 

[Federberg]

And as for being back for weeks, the guy's form dropped off after his injury. It's a comfortable narrative for a lot of players who seem to have a problem with a straight up shooter like Curry who came from a privileged background. It's not clear to me that he wasn't the finals MVP when they first won, but the concept is highly subjective anyway

 

[DarthFed]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html

His shooting % has been quite a bit worse in the playoffs aside from last year with the KD effect. But in general he just did really poor his first couple finals, obviously he will be in a bunch more finals including this year most likely. Defenses tighten up and pure shooters like him are naturally going to have it tougher. Guys like MJ and LeBron just always had something extra in the tank. The latter doesn't try on defense at all in the regular season anymore and on offense he doesn't try to take over quite like in the playoffs. Seems scary saying someone can coast to 27.5, 9, 9 average in the regular season but that's what he did

 

[kskate2]

haha! He certainly can be. But even a clock is right twice a day. Besides he's a great deal better than Skip Bayless

Everyone is better than Skip Brainless (even the goofy yahoos at TNT)

 

[brokenshoelace]

you see this is what I don't get. It took a questionable call on Draymond and Curry not being fit for the Cavs to win. But I hear many folks say Curry choked and they got handed a beating. Yet questioning the depth of competition Lebron has faced over the years to get to finals and I get resistance. Seems a bit unbalanced to me

Curry stunk in those finals. He came back midway through the Portland series, played a seven game series vs. OKC and a seven game series vs. the Cavs. That's plenty of game experience. We're talking over 15 games. Not saying he was 100% but the injury thing is funny considering he lit up Portland upon his return.

There is no resistance re: the depth Lebron faced. The East is weaker than the West. But this ignores him single handedly carrying a dreadful Cavs team to the finals in 2007, by beating a terrific Detroit team. Can you name me any of Lebron's teammates on that Cavs team? If you can, then you'd know how bad they were. If you can't, then you REALLY know how bad they were.

He also had to go through the Celtics with Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and Ray Allen. It wasn't all against tomato cans. That said, over the past few years, yes, it did get easier in the East, no doubt about it.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^I'm not sure that narrative is all that accurate to be honest. His stats are decent...

http://www.landofbasketball.com/all_time_leaders/points_per_game_career_playoffs.htm

Reaaaaaaaaaaaaally not trying to be a jerk but that narrative is 100% correct and you'd know it if you looked beyond the numbers. Freaking Iggy won the finals MVP in 2015 because Steph was that disappointing, and he seriously stunk in the 2016 finals. Last year he was great but by then, Durant was there and that's a different team.

 

[kskate2]

And as for being back for weeks, the guy's form dropped off after his injury. It's a comfortable narrative for a lot of players who seem to have a problem with a straight up shooter like Curry who came from a privileged background. It's not clear to me that he wasn't the finals MVP when they first won, but the concept is highly subjective anyway

They gave the MVP to Eagle$ because he really stepped up on both sides of the ball, but primarily his job was to slow down and annoy Lebron at any cost just like Leonard did the year before. By the way, the Dubs flat out choked in 2016. They were up 3-1 in the series and had home court advantage. Went on to lose the last 3 games and the title was pretty pathetic.

Here are Curry's stats for 2015 Finals

Here are his stats for 2016 Finals

Here are his stats for 2017 Finals

And a couple of articles you might find interesting to read

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-finals-mvp-worst-ever-062016

https://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2...ying-the-most-valuable-player-nba-finals-2015

 

[kskate2]

Curry stunk in those finals. He came back midway through the Portland series, played a seven game series vs. OKC and a seven game series vs. the Cavs. That's plenty of game experience. We're talking over 15 games. Not saying he was 100% but the injury thing is funny considering he lit up Portland upon his return.

There is no resistance re: the depth Lebron faced. The East is weaker than the West. But this ignores him single handedly carrying a dreadful Cavs team to the finals in 2007, by beating a terrific Detroit team. Can you name me any of Lebron's teammates on that Cavs team? If you can, then you'd know how bad they were. If you can't, then you REALLY know how bad they were.

He also had to go through the Celtics with Garnett, Rondo, Pierce and Ray Allen. It wasn't all against tomato cans. That said, over the past few years, yes, it did get easier in the East, no doubt about it.

Was Verajau there then? I know I butchered his spelling

 

[the AntiPusher]

And as for being back for weeks, the guy's form dropped off after his injury. It's a comfortable narrative for a lot of players who seem to have a problem with a straight up shooter like Curry who came from a privileged background. It's not clear to me that he wasn't the finals MVP when they first won, but the concept is highly subjective anyway

They gave the MVP to Eagle$ because he really stepped up on both sides of the ball, but primarily his job was to slow down and annoy Lebron at any cost just like Leonard did the year before. By the way, the Dubs flat out choked in 2016. They were up 3-1 in the series and had home court advantage. Went on to lose the last 3 games and the title was pretty path

Here are Curry's stats for 2015 Finals
View attachment 1784

Here are his stats for 2016 Finals
View attachment 1785

Here are his stats for 2017 Finals
View attachment 1786

And a couple of articles you might find interesting to read

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-finals-mvp-worst-ever-062016

https://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2...ying-the-most-valuable-player-nba-finals-2015[/QUst

 

[the AntiPusher]

Step has been very subpar in the latter rounds of the playoffs with exception of last year.It was his fault they lost to da Kang in 2016.