2018 NBA Finals: Warriors - Cavs (Part 4)

[DarthFed]

The Warriors defense on LeBron wasn't good but it doesn't really need to be as crazy as it sounds. The Warriors know that the only way the Cavs can make this competitive is if the others step up and that's where I thought they failed yesterday. It wasn't just the switching that BS mentioned, their rotations were also pretty slow and they got away with the Cavs missing a lot of open looks. Still looking at the game I feel "the others" did pretty well for their very low standards. And I wouldn't expect a repeat performance in Oracle. But there is no need for the Dubs to adjust to LeBron, they know him well enough as the only real threat to their team. When he's hitting outside shots it's simply impossible to defend him. Eagle can help but he's not slowing down LeBron.

The Dubs just frankly aren't playing anywhere near as well as the last few years on either end of the floor. KD is off and they don't have the same intensity on defense. What's tough for Bron is that even a decent team may have been enough for him to win this series. But he may have a bottom 3 roster in the league and that's being generous.

And you may not realize this FB but I'm probably the only LeBron fan on this thread. KS and AP definitely don't like him but there's no denying the guy is by far the best in the world and is top 5, probably top 3 all-time. I will put it like this, if you come across anyone that says "yeah he's good but I don't think he's top 10, or I don't think he's at Kobe's level" then just ignore them. I think you're searching REALLY hard to discredit this guy for some reason. What he's done in this playoffs is beyond ridiculous given his team. There is maybe 1 other player in history that could've dragged this team to the finals and we all know who that is

 

[Federberg]

The Warriors defense on LeBron wasn't good but it doesn't really need to be as crazy as it sounds. The Warriors know that the only way the Cavs can make this competitive is if the others step up and that's where I thought they failed yesterday. It wasn't just the switching that BS mentioned, their rotations were also pretty slow and they got away with the Cavs missing a lot of open looks. Still looking at the game I feel "the others" did pretty well for their very low standards.

The Dubs just frankly aren't playing anywhere near as well as the last few years on either end of the floor. KD is off and they don't have the same intensity on defense. What's tough for Bron is that even a decent team may have been enough for him to win this series. But he may have a bottom 3 roster in the league and that's being generous.

And you may not realize this FB but I'm probably the only LeBron fan on this thread. KS and AP definitely don't like him but there's no denying the guy is by far the best in the world and is top 5, probably top 3 all-time. I will put it like this, if you come across anyone that says "yeah he's good but I don't think he's top 10, or I don't think he's at Kobe's level" then just ignore them. I think you're searching REALLY hard to discredit this guy for some reason. What he's done in this playoffs is beyond ridiculous given his team. There is maybe 1 other player in history that could've dragged this team to the finals and we all know who that is

That's not right DF. If I react negatively to Lebron it's more for trying to restore balance to some of the nonsense I hear from pundits like Shannon Sharpe and particularly Nick Wright. Don't get me wrong. I honestly think he's a phenomenal player. He's definitely top 5 in my view. I have a lot of friends who are NBA nuts, and the consensus from them is that apart from Kareem and MJ Lebron has pretty much established his place. Some argue that Magic was better than him but there's a healthy debate there. Very few suggest Kobe is superior, although some definitely do. No, my thing is more to do with how Steph gets dismissed as much as he does. There's no context to how physically impaired he was in 2016. There's this narrative that he disappears in finals, and it's simply not true if you just look at the numbers. Particularly when you remember he was impaired in 2016. Also I have a major issue with the comparison with KD. Don't get me wrong, I have never argued that KD isn't more gifted than Steph. That would be a silly thing to do. But on his best day, I don't think KD is anywhere near the killer Steph is. His lack of selfishness is used against him, but all the guy cares about is getting rings. I honestly think he doesn't give 2 hoots if others dismiss his contribution if he gets the win. The idea that he could only flourish in the GSW set up completely disregards his mentality. I think he is so much mentally stronger than KD it amazes me that people miss that. And quite frankly when OKC was 3 1 up against them and he and Play killed OKC, people forget he basically took KD's lunch away from him. And another thing... I don't care what anyone says I think he deserved the MVP in 15. Giving it to Iguodala was BS in my view, and lots of my NBA crazy friends privately agree with that

 

[DarthFed]

That's not right DF. If I react negatively to Lebron it's more for trying to restore balance to some of the nonsense I hear from pundits like Shannon Sharpe and particularly Nick Wright. Don't get me wrong. I honestly think he's a phenomenal player. He's definitely top 5 in my view. I have a lot of friends who are NBA nuts, and the consensus from them is that apart from Kareem and MJ Lebron has pretty much established his place. Some argue that Magic was better than him but there's a healthy debate there. Very few suggest Kobe is superior, although some definitely do. No, my thing is more to do with how Steph gets dismissed as much as he does. There's no context to how physically impaired he was in 2016. There's this narrative that he disappears in finals, and it's simply not true if you just look at the numbers. Particularly when you remember he was impaired in 2016. Also I have a major issue with the comparison with KD. Don't get me wrong, I have never argued that KD isn't more gifted than Steph. That would be a silly thing to do. But on his best day, I don't think KD is anywhere near the killer Steph is. His lack of selfishness is used against him, but all the guy cares about is getting rings. I honestly think he doesn't give 2 hoots if others dismiss his contribution if he gets the win. The idea that he could only flourish in the GSW set up completely disregards his mentality. I think he is so much mentally stronger than KD it amazes me that people miss that. And quite frankly when OKC was 3 1 up against them and he and Play killed OKC, people forget he basically took KD's lunch away from him. And another thing... I don't care what anyone says I think he deserved the MVP in 15. Giving it to Iguodala was BS in my view, and lots of my NBA crazy friends privately agree with that

I think Sharpe says a lot of crap to piss off Skip who goes out of his way to say extreme things. I'm not even sure what Wright says but most of those who say LeBron is GOAT have vendettas against Jordan

I do agree with what you say about LeBron's current rank. I feel like if we are putting Russell and Magic above him we are really just counting rings. Personally after this I'd put him top 3, lowest could be 6 if we put MJ, Kareem, Magic, Russell, and Wilt all ahead of him. When all is said and done I imagine he ends up #2 especially if he wins another ring or two. But that's not a given as Kareem's career often gets way underrated.

I do believe KD is a killer and a leader but he hasn't really had that opportunity. Westbrook just didn't take a back seat and Golden State is still Steph's team. KD has been subpar these playoffs for sure but he can get hot at any time. He's still the best pure scorer the league has seen since MJ IMO.

 

[Federberg]

^I agree that KD is a beast of a pure scorer. I'm really not convinced about his leadership skills. He doesn't have the dog in him like that. That's ok though. He's so good that he doesn't need it. We don't need to make him into something he's not.

Re: Lebron's ultimate rank, I would love to have seen how he would have fared back in Jordan's day. I think he would have been something special. I'm not sure that the added physicality wouldn't have induced him to be more of a distributor than the scorer he's become. No question he would have been right up there, but I confess I would have liked to see him up against guys like Magic and Hakeem. By the same token I would have loved to have seen MJ playing in this era. We're all in awe at what Lebron is doing now, but seriously... what could MJ have done now? His PPG would have been obscene

 

[DarthFed]

^I agree that KD is a beast of a pure scorer. I'm really not convinced about his leadership skills. He doesn't have the dog in him like that. That's ok though. He's so good that he doesn't need it. We don't need to make him into something he's not.

Re: Lebron's ultimate rank, I would love to have seen how he would have fared back in Jordan's day. I think he would have been something special. I'm not sure that the added physicality wouldn't have induced him to be more of a distributor than the scorer he's become. No question he would have been right up there, but I confess I would have liked to see him up against guys like Magic and Hakeem. By the same token I would have loved to have seen MJ playing in this era. We're all in awe at what Lebron is doing now, but seriously... what could MJ have done now? His PPG would have been obscene

It would've been really interesting to see if the handcheck rule would've had a big effect on him. The league really changed when they took that away. But if we are talking 80's basketball it'd be pretty unfair if you drop LeBron on that. I know we make the distinction between greatness and best and comparing Magic to LeBron is about comparing greatness. Because as far as overall ability I'd say LeBron is pretty much Magic 2.0. Magic was the better passer but LeBron is way stronger and more athletic and all-around just more skilled. Even with added physicality we have to see the reverse, imagine if LeBron could be more physical on defense...

And Jordan would've lit up the scoreboard like crazy in this era. It's now so much more a 3 point league and I have no doubt MJ would've become a big time threat from there but back in his day it just wasn't as key.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The fire that burned inside MJ , Byrd , Magic and Kobe is starting to burn inside of Lebron. Russell has the fire but doesn’t have the cerebral mentality yet. Russell needs to spend some time with Kobe. Step has both really uses his athleticism to the max of his ability. If Step had the athleticism of Westbrook or if Russell had the cerebral game of Lebron, it would be game over. My favorite player as a kid was Paul Westphal. Paul was one of the best pure shooters I have ever seen and he was ambidextrous. Young Paul had some serious ups, meaning the white Boy had serious hops..he could dunk with either hand with ease. Unfortunately his career was cut short by lower leg injuries. The reason I bring up Westphal he was a very cerebral basketball player. He was the absolute pure opposite of JR. During what I still think was one of the greatest games I ever seen. The Suns was losing the game by one point and the Celtics had a sure win with less than 3 seconds left. As Boston was going to inbound the ball, Westphal talked his coach John McCloud into calling a timeout (The Suns had none) . The result was a technical foul which the Celtics converts. The Suns got the ball at half court and the Suns Garfield Heard hit a turnaround 20 footer to tie the game to send it to overtime. Previously Westphal had stolen an inbound pass with less than 15 seconds left to put his team in the position to have that wild finish. (Darth, I would recommend that you and Federberg go back and watch the last few minutes and the 3 OTs.).Its the equivalent of Wimbledon 08, just a pure masterpiece. To summarize, Westphal almost beat the legendary Celtics during a 3 overtime game playing with Not One future Hall of Gamer. (I still don’t understand why he or Walter the Greyhound Davis isn’t in Hall of Fame.) I still have posters of Westy and the (Nike Supreme Court) posters in my Man’s cave.

 

[DarthFed]

The fire that burned inside MJ , Byrd , Magic and Kobe is starting to burn inside of Lebron. Russell has the fire but doesn’t have the cerebral mentality yet. Russell needs to spend some time with Kobe. Step has both really uses his athleticism to the max of his ability. If Step had the athleticism of Westbrook or if Russell had the cerebral game of Lebron, it would be game over. My favorite player as a kid was Paul Westphal. Paul was one of the best pure shooters I have ever seen and he was ambidextrous. Young Paul had some serious ups, meaning the white Boy had serious hops..he could dunk with either hand with ease. Unfortunately his career was cut short by lower leg injuries. The reason I bring up Westphal he was a very cerebral basketball player. He was the absolute pure opposite of JR. During what I still think was one of the greatest games I ever seen. The Suns was losing the game by one point and the Celtics had a sure win with less than 3 seconds left. As Boston was going to inbound the ball, Westphal talked his coach John McCloud into calling a timeout (The Suns had none) . The result was a technical foul which the Celtics converts. The Suns got the ball at half court and the Suns Garfield Heard hit a turnaround 20 footer to tie the game to send it to overtime. Previously Westphal had stolen an inbound pass with less than 15 seconds left to put his team in the position to have that wild finish. (Darth, I would recommend that you and Federberg go back and watch the last few minutes and the 3 OTs.).Its the equivalent of Wimbledon 08, just a pure masterpiece. To summarize, Westphal almost beat the legendary Celtics during a 3 overtime game playing with Not One future Hall of Gamer. (I still don’t understand why he or Walter the Greyhound Davis isn’t in Hall of Fame.) I still have posters of Westy and the (Nike Supreme Court) posters in my Man’s cave.

I've seen highlights of the game you mentioned AP. It gets frequently discussed as maybe the best game ever. Didn't know you were such a Westphal fan haha. I knew he could ball for a whitey, decent coach too.

And I was talking Bill Russell, not that fool Westbrook. I agree with you though, if Russ had bball IQ he'd be scary.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I've seen highlights of the game you mentioned AP. It gets frequently discussed as maybe the best game ever. Didn't know you were such a Westphal fan haha. I knew he could ball for a whitey, decent coach too.

And I was talking Bill Russell, not that fool Westbrook. I agree with you though, if Russ had bball IQ he'd be scary.

Man..I cried as a little kid when Westphal got traded to Seattle for Dennis Johnson whom later went to the Celtics with Bird, McHale and Parrish,,you know what happen as the result of that acquisition. Dumb move by the Suns and it broke up one of the deadliest scoring backcourts ever between Davis and Westphal.. Go back and watch some footage of Walter Davis.. He was one of MJ favorites players to watch. MJ tried to get Walter Davis on the Bulls but fat azz Jerry Krause vetoed it. Jordan never forgave him for not following his direction.

 

[DarthFed]

The odds for next year's title are hilarious:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/76ers-lakers-cavaliers-among-top-035909282.html

Why does everyone think he will go to LA. That team isn't good enough and he'd have to go through both Houston and GS just to reach the finals. Only real potential destinations are Philly and Houston IMO. He and Riley hate each other so I don't think he goes to Miami even though they have a pretty decent team as it stands right now.

 

[the AntiPusher]

The odds for next year's title are hilarious:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/76ers-lakers-cavaliers-among-top-035909282.html

Why does everyone think he will go to LA. That team isn't good enough and he'd have to go through both Houston and GS just to reach the finals. Only real potential destinations are Philly and Houston IMO. He and Riley hate each other so I don't think he goes to Miami even though they have a pretty decent team as it stands right now.

He is gonna go to Houston, his kids godfather is on his last leg(hamstring) and he wants to help him to get a max deal..I think Houston would be a fool as i stated a few weeks ago to give a 33 year sub 6 foot tall player who has the body of 37 year-old Dwade. Philly would've been a better fit but no long distance snipers who can create their own space or shot. (Jj and Marco are not Ray Allen or Kyie).

 

[DarthFed]

He is gonna go to Houston, his kids godfather is on his last leg(hamstring) and he wants to help him to get a max deal..I think Houston would be a fool as i stated a few weeks ago to give a 33 year sub 6 foot tall player who has the body of 37 year-old Dwade. Philly would've been a better fit but no long distance snipers who can create their own space or shot. (Jj and Marco are not Ray Allen or Kyie).

I'm betting on Philly because of Paul's age and health. He might plan on Philly being his final destination for the next 5-6 years and they simply have a better long-term upside on top of having ring potential right away.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I'm betting on Philly because of Paul's age and health. He might plan on Philly being his final destination for the next 5-6 years and they simply have a better long-term upside on top of having ring potential right away.

Darth. You are misssing the X Factor.. the new league MVP ..Harden.. Harden is in his prime now and for the next few years.. the beard could reduce Lebron’s minutes from 43-44 minutes a game down to 36-38 minutes during the regular season. That’s huge Harden could control the game while Lebron is on the bench .. I dont know if Lebron trust the health of Emiibid or how quickly Simmons will develop a jump shot. Houston or stay in Cleveland are his best options. LA is not ready and gonna waste their money on George Paul. (I know how this isn’t his given christian name but this is how he plays)

 

[DarthFed]

Darth. You are misssing the X Factor.. the new league MVP ..Harden.. Harden is in his prime now and for the next few years.. the beard could reduce Lebron’s minutes from 43-44 minutes a game down to 36-38 minutes during the regular season. That’s huge Harden could control the game while Lebron is on the bench .. I dont know if Lebron trust the health of Emiibid or how quickly Simmons will develop a jump shot. Houston or stay in Cleveland are his best options. LA is not ready and gonna waste their money on George Paul. (I know how this isn’t his given christian name but this is how he plays)

Stay in Cleveland? That might be the worst option in the league, the team is straight garbage. And you are overrating Harden. I mean I do think if he went to Houston and Paul is healthy that they'd be favorites over GS but assuming Paul stays healthy is a gamble. And he may be out of the league in a few years. Then what?

 

[brokenshoelace]

Lebron does not average 43 minutes a game in the regular season, lol. It's not even close. .

 

[the AntiPusher]

Stay in Cleveland? That might be the worst option in the league, the team is straight garbage. And you are overrating Harden. I mean I do think if he went to Houston and Paul is healthy that they'd be favorites over GS but assuming Paul stays healthy is a gamble. And he may be out of the league in a few years. Then what?

how can i be overrating a guy who is gonna be the league Mvp..i know it shoild be lebron but its the process

 

[Federberg]

I'm betting on Philly because of Paul's age and health. He might plan on Philly being his final destination for the next 5-6 years and they simply have a better long-term upside on top of having ring potential right away.

I heard a rumour that months ago his people had been looking at schools in Philly

 

[DarthFed]

how can i be overrating a guy who is gonna be the league Mvp..i know it shoild be lebron but its the process

Regular season bro. Come on. He is a great player, don't get me wrong but I feel like Simmons will be better and soon.

 

[DarthFed]

I heard a rumour that months ago his people had been looking at schools in Philly

Yeah that'd be pretty telling. I think he has a house in LA and people make a big deal out of it but it's LA and he's kind of rich and famous

 

[Federberg]

Yeah that'd be pretty telling. I think he has a house in LA and people make a big deal out of it but it's LA and he's kind of rich and famous

Lol! True that. He probably still has a house in Miami right? It's not like us mere mortals.

 

[DarthFed]

Lol! True that. He probably still has a house in Miami right? It's not like us mere mortals.

LA still is such a big talking point in the NBA and then they have Magic there and may get Paul George...basically people are reaching really hard but I don't see it.