2018 French Open Mens QF: Djokovic - Cecchinato

[brokenshoelace]

Nadal doesn’t care to think or question things. His mindset is you work hard and you put your head down. I think if you ask him about the meaning of life he will say “?Que?”

I don't buy that one bit. Nadal is an agnostic (or even an atheist. Not sure). I don't think that's something that would just happen if someone didn't think about things (would have been much more easy to just follow whatever religion he was born into). Not saying this makes him an intellectual, but just because he's private and not that fluent in English doesn't mean he's not an intellectual. In fact, when you listen to Nadal talk about the doubts he's had while injured, his thought process during matches, how he approaches key points, how he dealt with certain phases in his career, you learn quite a lot. The idea that Nadal is just some machine is one I wish was true, because then he'd be a lot more confident than he actually is.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I didn't miss the point at all, people are simply overstating Nole's current level and the likeliness that "next tournament he will be a legit contender." You said the other day you considered him the favorite over Thiem or Zverev in the semis. Now please say with a straight face that you were doing that off of recent form and results? Nah you were basing that mostly on who Nole was a couple years ago.

I'm not freaking out about Djoker but I'm also not overstating his current abilities or the likelihood that he is going to be relevant "tomorrow". I've actually been one to say that he is probably going to eventually get his level back but with his start to this year and injury concerns I'm really switching that to "possibly".

As for the grunting I understood you perfectly. The problem is what you're saying is the equivalent of a Donald Trump supporter criticizing someone for being racist.

Wait, I never said Novak is a favorite over Thiem. Where did I say that?

Also, the last analogy is pure bullshit. It's actually so dumb I'm shocked it's coming from you.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Federer does not come across as very bright. .

Wow...

 

[Denis]

I don't buy that one bit. Nadal is an agnostic (or even an atheist. Not sure). I don't think that's something that would just happen if someone didn't think about things (would have been much more easy to just follow whatever religion he was born to). Not saying this makes him an intellectual, but just because he's private and not that fluent in English doesn't he's not an intellectual. In fact, when you listen to Nadal talk about the doubts he's had while injured, his thought process during matches, how he approaches key points, how he dealt with certain phases in his career, you learn quite a lot. The idea that Nadal is just some machine is one I wish was true, because then he'd be a lot more confident than he actually is.

Yeah that's true (def about the agnostic part), he just doesn't come accross that way though. Maybe he keeps it to himself, that would not surprise me. As I said I see him more as someone with a no bullshit mentality.

 

[DarthFed]

Wait, I never said Novak is a favorite over Thiem. Where did I say that?

Also, the last analogy is pure bullshit. It's actually so dumb I'm shocked it's coming from you.

Post 541 of Roland Garros thread. I'd link it but I'm at work sadly, been on the phone enough today.

How is that analogy bullshit? Nadal grunts like a fucking caveman all match and sometimes after he hits the ball. Novak does grunt and pull that same shit on big points, I agree with that. But you're basically penalizing him for not grunting like a madman all match and only saving it for big points.

 

[atttomole]

I’m not that confident.

Novak is more of a thinker than fedal (who to be entirely honest are not the most intellectual types) and god knows how his body is doing.

Not good times for us Novak fans that’s for sure.

Not sure if I agree with this. How are Fedal not as intellectual as Djokovic?

 

[10isfan]

Did none of you see Cecchinato in Rome? He was impressive, hitting crazy winners. I’m not surprised he beat Djoke who isn’t near his peak.

 

[10isfan]

Fed, Nadal, Djoke, and Murray are all smart. No debate necessary.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Post 541 of Roland Garros thread. I'd link it but I'm at work sadly, been on the phone enough today.

How is that analogy bullshit? Nadal grunts like a fucking caveman all match and sometimes after he hits the ball. Novak does grunt and pull that same shit on big points, I agree with that. But you're basically penalizing him for not grunting like a madman all match and only saving it for big points.

Thanks for proving again, that you missed the point. My point is not about the grunt, is the exaggerated "I'm being tortured" grunt. Take a look at the video I linked to you in an earlier post, and again tell me: Have you ever heard Nadal grunt like that? It's a simple question.

 

[monfed]

faker tried everything in this match. Shouting at ball boys, timewasting, ballbouncing, faking injury, screaming like a gorilla when opponent missed an easy smash, grunting loudly on important points to distract his opponent, pushing like there's no tomorrow. This was peak fakervic but it wasn't enough.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Based on history, guys in big slumps don't randomly turn it around mid-season. So for the rest of the year, we will keep hearing how every Novak loss is further proof that he won't be back. Typically, if someone turns it around, it's usually in the off season, and they come back strong the following year. Now if Novak stinks up the joint again for the entirety of next year, then we can have a different debate.

 

[DarthFed]

Based on history, guys in big slumps don't randomly turn it around mid-season. So for the rest of the year, we will keep hearing how every Novak loss is further proof that he won't be back. Typically, if someone turns it around, it's usually in the off season, and they come back strong the following year. Now if Novak stinks up the joint again for the entirety of next year, then we can have a different debate.

He's been pretty awful since RG '16. How much of that is physical and how much is mental is anyone's guess. But that's two full years. The main difference between his and Nadal's case is that Nadal at his very worst was still the #2 favorite at RG. Nole of the past 1.5 seasons is simply not a contender at majors. He hasn't made it past a QF and has outright been embarrassed when he's gotten to that stage.

And also if Nole's playing wrist/shoulder is still not 100% that is easily a bigger long-term injury concern than Rafa or Roger have ever had.

 

[DarthFed]

Thanks for proving again, that you missed the point. My point is not about the grunt, is the exaggerated "I'm being tortured" grunt. Take a look at the video I linked to you in an earlier post, and again tell me: Have you ever heard Nadal grunt like that? It's a simple question.

Ugh, i get it fine. It's a general observation that it's beyond strange to hear a Nadal fan complain about another player's grunting. Nadal does also grunt incredibly loud and long when he's stretched.

I repeat, as a Nadal fan do you really not see how crazy it is to complain about an opponent's grunting? I would think two things off limit would be grunting and an opponent playing too slow.

 

[herios]

Did none of you see Cecchinato in Rome? He was impressive, hitting crazy winners. I’m not surprised he beat Djoke who isn’t near his peak.

Aside I am disappointed by Novak, I am very intrigued by Marco's performance in this event.

After he won that event in Budapesta, he has got to a new level of confidence and once he felt that, he became dangerous.
Instead of making R3, beating some guys in his league, like Copil and Trungelitti, he surpassed that with 3 more rounds defeating players ranked 9 ( Goffin), 11 ( Carreno-Busta) and then Djokovic.
This is a real breakthrough, jumping out of nowhere, ranked 72.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Aside I am disappointed by Novak, I am very intrigued by Marco's performance in this event.

After he won that event in Budapesta, he has got to a new level of confidence and once he felt that, he became dangerous.
Instead of making R3, beating some guys in his league, like Copil and Trungelitti, he surpassed that with 3 more rounds defeating players ranked 9 ( Goffin), 11 ( Carreno-Busta) and then Djokovic.
This is a real breakthrough, jumping out of nowhere, ranked 72.

.........and he has never won a GS match before apparently.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I didn't see a bit of it. Need to watch some highlights. Sounds like an interesting match though.

I think this is a good progress for Novak (but not if he has to skip grass season as some one mentioned).

The difference with the comeback of Novak is that we cannot assume that Novak will come back just because Federer and Nadal came back after being down for a long time. While I am not saying Novak cannot come back, he has to prove it by actually doing so. This is what both Moxie and I have been saying.

Also, the point about the location of the injury is pertinent. If his injury is in arm, elbow, shoulder, that is more serious than knee injuries. With a knee injury at least you can play well if you are not forced to run like crazy. But with an arm injury, you will have trouble with every shot.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Just finished watching highlights from RG site. But, it was only 5:12 long. Need to watch extend highlights.

His drop shots are amazing. Serve is good and hits clean winners. Never flinched.

 

[Moxie]

Just finished watching highlights from RG site. But, it was only 5:12 long. Need to watch extend highlights.

His drop shots are amazing. Serve is good and hits clean winners. Never flinched.

Whatever anyone wants to say about that match, Cecchinato was brave. He didn't let the moment get to him, or the comeback from the former #1 in the 3rd and 4th sets. I think you would be well-served to try to watch the whole match, if you can. Or for sure, the whole of the 4th set. Djokovic was well-up in the 4th. But it wasn't a complete choke. Cecchinato was incredibly sturdy and brave in that match, particularly the 4th set. If you watch nothing else, watch the 4th set TB in full. It was amazing. Djokovic, imo, wasn't especially poor, but he was uncharacteristically errant. And he was crabby...not quiet-mind.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Do you think Marco has a better chance than Thiem to .....................

 

[Moxie]

Do you think Marco has a better chance than Thiem to .....................

....beat Nadal? No. Marco is on an incredible run, but he's way into uncharted territory. And Thiem doesn't have to do the 1-2 of Djokovic/Nadal that has flummoxed him. Both one-handed BHs. I think Thiem is a bit more aggressive. Though...Cecchinato is totally playing with house money.