2018 French Open Mens QF: Djokovic - Cecchinato

[Moxie]

They said he'd only won 12 tour matches before this RG.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Remember certain individuals telling me we overreact to Djoker's losses? He's a horror show right now. This loss should've been impossible.

Second time today where you completely miss the point. I never claimed Djokovic is fine, back to his best, bla bla bla. I said sooner or later, he'll be back. Also, I'll say it: you are a major drama queen when it comes to Fed and Nadal (in different ways, obviously). Your drama re: Novak is a result of you worrying about Nadal winning majors, because you recognize Novak is his biggest obstacle with Roger getting up there in age. I mean, I had to hear your nonsense about "we all know if Novak was at his best he'd spank Nadal"... yeah, like he did in 2012, 2013 and 2014? At RG, unless Rafa is his 2015 pathetic self, he is ALWAYS the favorite against anyone, including Novak. What's their h2h at the FO again? So yeah, I didn't want to call you out on the nonsensical narrative but I really have to...

You are freaking out about Novak, the same way you freaked out about Roger in the past. Roger turned out fine, and Novak will too. You'll see.

 

[Denis]

Well Novak is not back yet. Losing too many break leads, a little too tentative. I hope there is nothing physical but who knows.

There are positives, i can see him play with more fire so hopefully he can actually come back.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Novak played half a year last season, and we're midway through the season now. That's basically a year of him stinking up the joint. He's 31 (or thereabout). Are we seriously saying that these bad losses (and this was BAD) mean he'll never win a major again?

 

[Federberg]

Remember certain individuals telling me we overreact to Djoker's losses? He's a horror show right now. This loss should've been impossible.

Well... he's going to have to earn the wins now. The young studs are going to be gunning for him. I would rather give credit to this new guy

 

[brokenshoelace]

A reminder that Rafael Nadal lost five setters to Fabio Fognini (where he was up two sets to love), Fernando Verdasco (in the first round!) and Lucas Pouille... He went a year without winning a Masters 1000 event, and over 2 years without winning a major.

A reminder that Roger Federer got crushed by Tsonga at the FO, and followed it with a loss to Sergei Stakhovsy at Wimbledon. He then lost to Tommy freaking Robredo in straights at the US Open.

These guys have had bad losses, long-term injuries, and returned to their winning ways. We can debate whether Novak is cut from the same cloth mentally, but unless he completely burns out and retires, I don't think he'll just scramble in limbo for the rest of his career. In the meantime, people can use every loss as validation that they're right, and he's going to have many more losses before turning it around. When he does, I'm sure you'll find some justification.

 

[Federberg]

A reminder that Rafael Nadal lost five setters to Fabio Fognini (where he was up two sets to love), Fernando Verdasco (in the first round!) and Lucas Pouille... He went a year without winning a Masters 1000 event, and over 2 years without winning a major.

A reminder that Roger Federer got crushed by Tsonga at the FO, and followed it with a loss to Sergei Stakhovsy at Wimbledon. He then lost to Tommy freaking Robredo in straights at the US Open.

These guys have had bad losses, long-term injuries, and returned to their winning ways. We can debate whether Novak is cut from the same cloth mentally, but unless he completely burns out and retires, I don't think he'll just scramble in limbo for the rest of his career. In the meantime, people can use every loss as validation that they're right, and he's going to have many more losses before turning it around. When he does, I'm sure you'll find some justification.

Personally I've never said that Novak is done. All I've said is that I need to see signs that he can regain his dominance. I actually think there are positive signs in recent weeks. I still say his descent has been of a different quality to both Rafa and Roger. Fedal were generally able to still go deep and their issues seemed more... physical. Novak's looks more mental and unfortunately for him there are an increasing number of young studs that aren't going to lie down for him

 

[Denis]

A reminder that Rafael Nadal lost five setters to Fabio Fognini (where he was up two sets to love), Fernando Verdasco (in the first round!) and Lucas Pouille... He went a year without winning a Masters 1000 event, and over 2 years without winning a major.

A reminder that Roger Federer got crushed by Tsonga at the FO, and followed it with a loss to Sergei Stakhovsy at Wimbledon. He then lost to Tommy freaking Robredo in straights at the US Open.

These guys have had bad losses, long-term injuries, and returned to their winning ways. We can debate whether Novak is cut from the same cloth mentally, but unless he completely burns out and retires, I don't think he'll just scramble in limbo for the rest of his career. In the meantime, people can use every loss as validation that they're right, and he's going to have many more losses before turning it around. When he does, I'm sure you'll find some justification.

I’m not that confident.

Novak is more of a thinker than fedal (who to be entirely honest are not the most intellectual types) and god knows how his body is doing.

Not good times for us Novak fans that’s for sure.

 

[Federberg]

I’m not that confident.

Novak is more of a thinker than fedal (who to be entirely honest are not to be the most intellectual types) and god knows how his body is doing.

Not good times for us Novak fans that’s for sure.

Hmmmm... he pontificates more than they do. But let's get real here. They're all very smart guys with immense tennis IQ's. They're just more natural killas than Novak is

 

[brokenshoelace]

Personally I've never said that Novak is done. All I've said is that I need to see signs that he can regain his dominance. I actually think there are positive signs in recent weeks. I still say his descent has been of a different quality to both Rafa and Roger. Fedal were generally able to still go deep and their issues seemed more... physical. Novak's looks more mental and unfortunately for him there are an increasing number of young studs that aren't going to lie down for him

I think Nadal had some mental issues for sure. Blowing a 2 set lead against Fognini, clearly struggling with confidence, losing all of his clutch factor, etc... I think the one mental factor that was never in question with Nadal (and Federer for that matter) is do they want it bad enough to work hard to go back to where they were. I understand that this is somewhat more of a concern with Novak, but my whole point is: it may not happen this year (it won't), but at some point, maybe even next season, he'll regroup.

 

[Denis]

Novak just said he might have to skip the grass season.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I’m not that confident.

Novak is more of a thinker than fedal (who to be entirely honest are not to be the most intellectual types) and god knows how his body is doing.

Not good times for us Novak fans that’s for sure.

Can you elaborate on the intellectual part? Honestly curious as to what you mean, and what you think the difference between them is...

 

[Denis]

Hmmmm... he pontificates more than they do. But let's get real here. They're all very smart guys with immense tennis IQ's. They're just more natural killas than Novak is

Federer does not come across as very bright. I think Nadal is not intellectually curious but has a good eq.

 

[Denis]

Can you elaborate on the intellectual part? Honestly curious as to what you mean, and what you think the difference between them is...

Nadal doesn’t care to think or question things. His mindset is you work hard and you put your head down. I think if you ask him about the meaning of life he will say “?Que?”

 

[Moxie]

Personally I've never said that Novak is done. All I've said is that I need to see signs that he can regain his dominance. I actually think there are positive signs in recent weeks. I still say his descent has been of a different quality to both Rafa and Roger. Fedal were generally able to still go deep and their issues seemed more... physical. Novak's looks more mental and unfortunately for him there are an increasing number of young studs that aren't going to lie down for him

I think it's really only Darth trying to say he was "done." I definitely think you have to say there has been a lot of improvement over the whole clay season. And the focus and desire seems to be much better.

Novak just said he might have to skip the grass season.

Did he say why? Because that would definitely be a blow to his progress, imo.

 

[Federberg]

Federer does not come across as very bright. I think Nadal is not intellectually curious but has a good eq.

I disagree. Federer avoids controversy in an extremely guileful way. There's deep intelligence there. He controls his narrative better than any sportsman alive at the moment

 

[Moxie]

Nadal doesn’t care to think or question things. His mindset is you work hard and you put your head down. I think if you ask him about the meaning of life he will say “?Que?”

Interestingly, he just weighed in on the state of Spanish politics, so I wouldn't say he wasn't the least bit curious about the world. Let's face it, all 3 left school to play tennis. They're smart at what they do, but I don't see Novak as the more intellectual, if such a word can be used about any of them, outside of tennis. He is the more emotional, however, in terms of dealing with things on the court. It gets him in trouble. He was looking up to the heaven's again today, and he was upset with the crowd. He's done that before, too.

 

[Denis]

Did people notice the ball bouncing is back?

 

[Denis]

Interestingly, he just weighed in on the state of Spanish politics, so I wouldn't say he wasn't the least bit curious about the world. Let's face it, all 3 left school to play tennis. They're smart at what they do, but I don't see Novak as the more intellectual, if such a word can be used about any of them, outside of tennis. He is the more emotional, however, in terms of dealing with things on the court. It gets him in trouble. He was looking up to the heaven's again today, and he was upset with the crowd. He's done that before, too.

What did he say? Kind of hard not to have an opinion on that.

 

[DarthFed]

Second time today where you completely miss the point. I never claimed Djokovic is fine, back to his best, bla bla bla. I said sooner or later, he'll be back. Also, I'll say it: you are a major drama queen when it comes to Fed and Nadal (in different ways, obviously). Your drama re: Novak is a result of you worrying about Nadal winning majors, because you recognize Novak is his biggest obstacle with Roger getting up there in age. I mean, I had to hear your nonsense about "we all know if Novak was at his best he'd spank Nadal"... yeah, like he did in 2012, 2013 and 2014? At RG, unless Rafa is his 2015 pathetic self, he is ALWAYS the favorite against anyone, including Novak. What's their h2h at the FO again? So yeah, I didn't want to call you out on the nonsensical narrative but I really have to...

You are freaking out about Novak, the same way you freaked out about Roger in the past. Roger turned out fine, and Novak will too. You'll see.

I didn't miss the point at all, people are simply overstating Nole's current level and the likeliness that "next tournament he will be a legit contender." You said the other day you considered him the favorite over Thiem or Zverev in the semis. Now please say with a straight face that you were doing that off of recent form and results? Nah you were basing that mostly on who Nole was a couple years ago.

I'm not freaking out about Djoker but I'm also not overstating his current abilities or the likelihood that he is going to be relevant "tomorrow". I've actually been one to say that he is probably going to eventually get his level back but with his start to this year and injury concerns I'm really switching that to "possibly".

As for the grunting I understood you perfectly. The problem is what you're saying is the equivalent of a Donald Trump supporter criticizing someone for being racist.