2017 Wimbledon Final: Federer v Cilic

[Moxie]

Yes I should've been more clear. Basketball is very popular worldwide but that doesn't mean all or even most are following the NBA closely on a daily basis. NBA games are on probably around Midnight - 3 AM in most of Europe, about 7 -11 AM in much of Asia and early afternoon in Australia. It's some serious hardcore fans there if they are watching a lot of NBA, at least when it's live. I suppose there may be games that get broadcasted internationally at better times after they finish (does anyone know?)

The NFL is way more popular than the NBA in the States and I'd say that was still the case even when Jordan was playing though it was certainly closer back then. And if we add in college (which we shouldn't) the gap is much much bigger. No one cares about crappy college bball until March Madness.

You have a tendency to speak in absolutes. I agree that NFL generates much more revenue and viewers in the US than the NBA. But the notion that "no one" cares about college basketball is as ridiculous as saying "no one" cares about college football. Both are big business, just not on the level of the pros. (What the heck...this thread is way off the tracks, anyway.)

 

[DarthFed]

I think you're out of your element here if you are trying to convince me that college bball is anywhere near as big as college football in this country. But that is already a bit off topic, we are talking about pro sports.

 

[Moxie]

I think you're out of your element here if you are trying to convince me that college bball is anywhere near as big as college football in this country. But that is already a bit off topic, we are talking about pro sports.

Technically, we're talking about Federer v. Cilic.

 

[DarthFed]

Glorious final that it was. How about a repeat in New York

 

[Moxie]

Glorious final that it was. How about a repeat in New York

"Glorious," indeed, if only for Roger and his fans. There was glory. But it was pretty crap, as a final. Let's say a potential Fedal final at the USO, and I'll arm wrestle you for the outcome.

 

[DarthFed]

The Hudson is a fine place for an Armada to be sunk

 

[Moxie]

The Hudson is a fine place for an Armada to be sunk

The classic would be to drop both of those Swiss Guards into the East River.

 

[Federberg]

"Glorious," indeed, if only for Roger and his fans. There was glory. But it was pretty crap, as a final. Let's say a potential Fedal final at the USO, and I'll arm wrestle you for the outcome.

Even I didn't find it glorious. I deleted the recording. I can't put myself through that again!

 

[El Dude]

One thing Roger doesn't have going for him in this discussion is that there isn't even consensus that he's the greatest tennis player of all time. If he isn't the greatest in his own sport, how can he be the greatest of all sports?

(I'm not saying he isn't the greatest tennis player, just pointing out that logical fallacy)

 

[Obsi]

That's more like saying he was a great person who happened to be an athlete, rather than just basing it on athletic achievement. I see two different definitions and different criteria.

The bigger impact on the world an athlete has, the more they transcend sport. It makes sense that contribution to sport is among the criteria.

 

[DarthFed]

The bigger impact on the world an athlete has, the more they transcend sport. It makes sense that contribution to sport is among the criteria.

What you're describing is in essence a popularity contest. Contributions to society shouldn't have any impact on who is considered a greater athlete. Again if we are just talking the United States most see Jordan as a greater athlete than Ali even though the former is a piece of shit as a person.

 

[Busted]

I think you're out of your element here if you are trying to convince me that college bball is anywhere near as big as college football in this country. But that is already a bit off topic, we are talking about pro sports.

I live in an SEC college town...and you ain't whistlin' Dixie. In the fall Saturdays pretty much only exist for game day. You don't make any plans to go anywhere near the stadium unless you're going to the game. When it's basketball season - it's business as usual 24/7/365. There are 2-3 games a week and it's all very, "Ho hum. Is there ANOTHER basketball game tonight?"

 

[Busted]

"Glorious," indeed, if only for Roger and his fans. There was glory. But it was pretty crap, as a final. Let's say a potential Fedal final at the USO, and I'll arm wrestle you for the outcome.

Don't lump all Federer fans together. I concur that the final was a big yawn. BUT...as Roger said in the press conference - he gets that people want a 5-set thriller but HE has had plenty of those, so an easy win, underwhelming though it was, is a nice change. Every time I go on YouTube I keep seeing finals "highlights" videos and LMAO. There were only about half a dozen good points in the entire match yet some people have managed to get 6-7 minutes worth of "highlights." SMH.

 

[Busted]

What you're describing is in essence a popularity contest. Contributions to society shouldn't have any impact on who is considered a greater athlete. Again if we are just talking the United States most see Jordan as a greater athlete than Ali even though the former is a piece of shit as a person.

Sad but true about Jordan - although some of Ali's former wives wouldn't exactly say he was a swell guy either. Jordan remains a petty individual, ie, ending his friendship with Charles Barkley because Barkley said on the TNT NBA show that Jordan wasn't a very good executive and had made a lot of mistakes. Barkley was supposed to only say reverential things and NOT tell the truth. Ali was very altruistic and cared about other people. Jordan only cares about himself.

My personal pet peeve is lumping team sports players in with individual sports athletes. Last time I checked Pele, Gretzky, Messi, Maradona, Jordan, et. al. all had 4-5 teammates on the field with them. They didn'r pass themselves the ball\puck or defend the entire court\field\goal. And don't even get me started on Michael Schumacher - who drove a freaking CAR.

 

[Moxie]

Don't lump all Federer fans together. I concur that the final was a big yawn. BUT...as Roger said in the press conference - he gets that people want a 5-set thriller but HE has had plenty of those, so an easy win, underwhelming though it was, is a nice change. Every time I go on YouTube I keep seeing finals "highlights" videos and LMAO. There were only about half a dozen good points in the entire match yet some people have managed to get 6-7 minutes worth of "highlights." SMH.

I actually meant "glorious" in the specific sense of the word...that it brought glory to Roger: another Major, #19, etc. And I don't think his fans are any different from the rest of us. No one is going to watch that match again. I'm perfectly happy that Rafa won RG in '08, but I wouldn't watch that match again, either.

 

[Obsi]

What you're describing is in essence a popularity contest.

No, it's about transcending sport.

Contributions to society shouldn't have any impact on who is considered a greater athlete

Contribution to sport should have impact on who is considered a greater athlete.

Again if we are just talking the United States most see Jordan as a greater athlete than Ali even though the former is a piece of shit as a person.

Muhammad Ali was named Sports Illustrated's Sportsman of the Century
http://articles.courant.com/1999-12...-ruth-20th-century-sports-awards-muhammad-ali

 

[britbox]

Contribution to sport should have impact on who is considered a greater athlete.

Sportsman maybe, but not athlete. Athlete is about proficiency in the particular sport.

 

[DarthFed]

No, it's about transcending sport.



Contribution to sport should have impact on who is considered a greater athlete.



Muhammad Ali was named Sports Illustrated's Sportsman of the Century
http://articles.courant.com/1999-12...-ruth-20th-century-sports-awards-muhammad-ali

All the athletes mentioned before transcended their sports and of course contributed heavily to them

Sportsman of the century is not the same as greatest athlete.

 

[Obsi]

Sportsman maybe, but not athlete. Athlete is about proficiency in the particular sport.

sportsman
a man who plays sport, especially one who plays it well
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sportsman

All the athletes mentioned before transcended their sports and of course contributed heavily to them

Muhammad Ali transcended sport far more than any other athlete.

Sportsman of the century is not the same as greatest athlete.

Of course sportsman of the "century" is not the same as the greatest athlete because "greatest" is all-time not just in one century. That's not what I meant. You said that in the United States most see Jordan as a greater athlete than Ali so that's the reason I posted that link.

 

[mrzz]

Well, I wasn´t in the mood for mentioning this, but since the conversation won´t move away from this... in 1981 French sports newspaper L´Equipe elected no one else but Pelé the "Athlete of the Century" -- and they made a poll with journalists from all over the world. There was a ceremony on the Parc des Princes, after a Brazil and France football match. I guess a little later Pelé gave a football clinic on the gardens of the White House to kids, Ronald Reagan was doing the throw ins (for you guys that doesn´t now football to well, for example Englishpeople, this is done with your hands).



So, in my book you elect the greatest athlete based on one single parameter: How many times the guy had a person with a huge nuclear arsenal under his thumb as his assistant? The current score is:

Pelé: 1
Rest of the world (including Maradona): 0