2017 Wimbledon Final: Federer v Cilic

[Busted]

I believe they did make some changes in the distribution of the prize money a few years back, when Roger and Rafa were on the board.

Yes, they did. Of course that's also when Naal was lobbying for a 2-year ranking system and Roger was against it - and then Nadal whined that Roger was too Swiss and trying to please everybody...except HIM. And then Roger got asked about it at the AO in 2009 and he said he was against it because it would be fine for the top guys but make it too hard for lower ranked guys to move up the rankings and they'd need multiple big breakthroughs instead of just one.. I guess Nadal finally got over that ego trip of trying to protect his own ranking at the expense of lower-ranked players.

 

[Haelfix]

If your point is that the hard-courts are the more democratizing surface of the game, Fedal proved you rather wrong this year. They haven't just done well on the natural surfaces, or only on their favorites. At the risk of boasting, Federer and Nadal, particularly in the notable absence of Djokovic and Murray, have rather proven how much better they are than the field. And, in terms of the Big 4, they've proven that, well, the 4 are head and shoulders above the rest. Without a strong Novak and Andy, Roger and Rafa have basically owned the year. We're heading into the last 3rd of the year, and there are a few promising up-and-comers. But I do think the race to the finish will be Fedal, once again. And why? Because they're better than 99% of the players out there.

I'd say the AO this year was definitely the most competitive tourney. There was a lot of good tennis played by the rest of the field. Meanwhile other than Thiem, Goffin and Nadal no one else showed up on clay this year, and basically everyone no showed on grass other than Federer.

Fedal are obviously historically great players on all surfaces, and I don't think much needs to be said about their excellence. However the state of the field is absymal. It's been abysmal for quite some time now, and my point is that its particularly glaring on clay and grass. The ATP needs to do something soon about the quality of their product..

 

[GameSetAndMath]

There was an article by someone, I forget where, that the topmost guys on the tour have too many advantages. A fantastic team of top physio, top coach, top trainer, dedicated nutritionist, multiple servants, nannies, private jets and residences in multiple cities across the planet. Their fiercely loyal coaching team studies each opponent, match etc. and devices targeted strategies in each match. They travel with their entire tram everywhere. On top of that they have an adoring fan base across the globe to draw support from. On top of all that given that they are very high status celebrities, even non-fans and reporters, are genuinely nice to them and give them attention. They are cushioned from the ordinary shocks, annoyances, frustrations of life that any player outside the top 10 will not be insulated from.

Is it correct to say that none of these practices existed, perhaps even in the 1990s? The talented and highly motivated newcomer had a fair shot. To what extent is this state of affairs responsible for the difficulty of youngsters in breaking through to beat a top player once in a while? Can they fight the pecking order or believe that they can topple someone at the top?

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Actually, this is normal and not unfair. This kind of thing exists in every field of human endeavor (not just in sports). You succeed and you accumulate money and can use those resources to further your success.

Even in education, you can say rich kids can buy all the books and have nutritious breakfast and do well in exams. It is not how it works in real life. While money helps, first thing needed in success is motivation and talent. But, once you get money, you can use that money to channelize your talent so that you can get more out of it. In every sport, profession and human endeavor they always try to encourage fresh and young talent (just like there are scholarships for good students from poor families).

However, life is difficult for players at the lower end of the strata in tennis. Actually, ITF and ATP are making positive changes with regard to that. The increases in prize money for early rounds is already talked about. I want to mention couple of other important changes. First ATP/ITF is trying to restrict professional tennis to top 1500 players instead of about 3000 players trying to make it. The good part of this is that those who suck will know that there chances of making it is less and will exit the field and try to secure their life in some other way instead of indulging in pipe dreams. The second change is that they are trying to hold futures tourneys distributed all over the world. This actually would let the aspiring players play in tourneys without spending lots of money on travel.

p.s. Once Tommy Haas said the following in an interview. "You cannot buy ranking. Otherwise, Gulbis would be world no. 1".

 

[mrzz]

^About the 2 years ranking system, it is simply a bad idea, as it takes simply too long for changes to be felt. Even now, with a 1 year ranking system (which I think is very good), we have a world #1 which clearly is behind a few others. Ok, that was a bad coincidence, as Murray played like a real #1 in the second half of 2016, and thus got there by his own merit, while Fedal did nothing. Now, Murray was a non-factor in the first half of 2017, while exactly the two guys who basically did not score in the second half of 2016 shared the big points. The net result, we have a world #1 who hasn´t played well for six months. If we were with a two years ranking system, the extreme cases would be even worst -- actually right now we would have Murray and Djokovic still battling for #1 (!).

 

[GameSetAndMath]

To his credit - in his press conference, before answering an unrelated question, Cilic went out of his way to say that in his distress he had forgotten to congratulate Roger and proceeded to do so. Give the guy a break. He didn't handle the moment the best and owned it later. The video is on YT...

Thanks for pointing this out. Cilic not congratulating Fed is not intentional and it is not a big deal. Because of his pain and situation he just forgot to do the normal thing.

Here is the transcript of that portion of interview.l

Q. You showed a lot of courage, commiserations. Could you tell us what went through your mind as the match progressed.
MARIN CILIC: I mean, I didn't have actually time on the court also to congratulate Roger. Don't want to put down his victory in any way. I mean, he deserved it completely. These things are part of the sport. Really congratulations to him and his team for everything he did, for another title here.

What was the second part?

Q. Your mental process as the match progressed.
MARIN CILIC: Yeah, for me was actually very difficult to focus on the match, as well, as my mind was all the time blocked with the pain. It was tough for me to focus on the tactics, on the things that I needed to do.

I wasn't serving very good today because of that. Also, you know, I was just not able to set up properly on the balls. It was very, very tough to deal with it.

 

[Moxie]

I'd say the AO this year was definitely the most competitive tourney. There was a lot of good tennis played by the rest of the field. Meanwhile other than Thiem, Goffin and Nadal no one else showed up on clay this year, and basically everyone no showed on grass other than Federer.

Fedal are obviously historically great players on all surfaces, and I don't think much needs to be said about their excellence. However the state of the field is absymal. It's been abysmal for quite some time now, and my point is that its particularly glaring on clay and grass. The ATP needs to do something soon about the quality of their product..

OK, I do take your point about the AO having been the best of the Majors so far this year, in term of competitiveness, with Wimbledon being a big old drag. (With the exception of the outcome for Fed fans, though even they feel they never saw his best.) Let me ask you this question: is there too much focus on HC tennis, leaving the natural surfaces to the superstars, with early rounds just featuring lesser-lights who specialize? I don't know that the state of the field is completely "abysmal." Much of their problem has been the glass ceiling created by the big 4. There has been a lot of depth in the men's game. ITF/ATP can't make certain mid-high level players any better in the clutch than they are. However, GSM pointed out that they were making an effort to have challenger events well-distributed throughout the world. Is that an opportunity to target some for grass/clay? Particularly grass?

 

[Federberg]

OK, I do take your point about the AO having been the best of the Majors so far this year, in term of competitiveness, with Wimbledon being a big old drag. (With the exception of the outcome for Fed fans, though even they feel they never saw his best.) Let me ask you this question: is there too much focus on HC tennis, leaving the natural surfaces to the superstars, with early rounds just featuring lesser-lights who specialize? I don't know that the state of the field is completely "abysmal." Much of their problem has been the glass ceiling created by the big 4. There has been a lot of depth in the men's game. ITF/ATP can't make certain mid-high level players any better in the clutch than they are. However, GSM pointed out that they were making an effort to have challenger events well-distributed throughout the world. Is that an opportunity to target some for grass/clay? Particularly grass?

I agree with you Moxie. I think they really need to make more of an effort to increase the number of grass court tournaments. In a perfect world, I would love to see the season split into a clay stretch, hard court stretch, grass stretch and indoor stretch all of equal length. That way the tour gets tested under all of the different playing conditions to an equal extent

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I agree with you Moxie. I think they really need to make more of an effort to increase the number of grass court tournaments. In a perfect world, I would love to see the season split into a clay stretch, hard court stretch, grass stretch and indoor stretch all of equal length. That way the tour gets tested under all of the different playing conditions to an equal extent

...and indoor stretch should be divided in half to bring back the good old lightning fast indoor carpet . I miss it ! Some epic matches took place on that surface!

 

[Federberg]

...and indoor stretch should be divided in half to bring back the good old lightning fast indoor carpet . I miss it ! Some epic matches took place on that surface!

You won't get any complaints from me!

 

[atttomole]

On a side note. Where is our good friend the Antipusher? I have not seen any posts from him for a week or so. I am guessing he lost a bet.

 

[mrzz]

On a side note. Where is our good friend the Antipusher? I have not seen any posts from him for a week or so. I am guessing he lost a bet.

Last thing I remember from him was something along the lines of "you can´t stop what´s coming", addressing either Front or Darth. I remember him saying something similar before AO, so I really hope to see more of it at US Open...

 

[Federberg]

Last thing I remember from him was something along the lines of "you can´t stop what´s coming", addressing either Front or Darth. I remember him saying something similar before AO, so I really hope to see more of it at US Open...

Lol! A lot of Rafa fans don't have the stones of Moxie and Carol

 

[atttomole]

Last thing I remember from him was something along the lines of "you can´t stop what´s coming", addressing either Front or Darth. I remember him saying something similar before AO, so I really hope to see more of it at US Open...

If he said those things during the AO and Wimbledon, then I also hope he says the same things during the US Open. We really miss his humour here.

 

[atttomole]

Lol! A lot of Rafa fans don't have the stones of Moxie and Carol

The others will be back soon because Rafa is not done winning slams.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The others will be back soon because Rafa is not done winning slams.

Rafa will be a force to reckon with in the North American Hard Court season and later in the year. He has some general problems with the indoor season though (but difficult to say whether he is banged up by that time or it is due to the nature of the season).

 

[brokenshoelace]

Name me one reason why Federer isn't the greatest athlete in history... I'll wait.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I'd say the AO this year was definitely the most competitive tourney. There was a lot of good tennis played by the rest of the field. Meanwhile other than Thiem, Goffin and Nadal no one else showed up on clay this year, and basically everyone no showed on grass other than Federer.

Fedal are obviously historically great players on all surfaces, and I don't think much needs to be said about their excellence. However the state of the field is absymal. It's been abysmal for quite some time now, and my point is that its particularly glaring on clay and grass. The ATP needs to do something soon about the quality of their product..

This is an excellent post.

I think since most here are either Federer or Nadal fans, this hasn't gotten too much attention since they're just happy their guys are winning (I know I was). The others are mostly Novak fans and obviously all they're thinking of, understandably, is how bad Novak is playing. Therefore, the quality of the field, or lack thereof, has gotten lost in the shuffle.

It's been dreadful. The clay season was one long drag, and the outcome of RG was pretty much guaranteed when Nadal beat Novak in Madrid (which indicated that nobody would be in good enough form to even touch him on clay). And nobody showed up on grass either. Beyond their amazing levels, there's a reason neither Nadal or Federer lost a set in their respective triumphs (or really came all that close to losing one, with the exception of a couple of understandable grass court tie break sets for Roger).

 

[brokenshoelace]

Lol! A lot of Rafa fans don't have the stones of Moxie and Carol

The problem with talking a big game re: Nadal at Wimbledon is... it is based on nothing that's happened in the past 6 years. So I really don't understand what it is founded on.

 

[El Dude]

Well the hope among Rafa fans has been that if he can break through to the QF, he can win on the more worn down grass. It makes sense in theory but hasn't happened in actuality.


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[I.Haychew]

Name me one reason why Federer isn't the greatest athlete in history... I'll wait.

Because Michael Jordan is.