2017 Wimbledon Final: Federer v Cilic

Who wins?


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Moxie

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I don't want to speculate on whether MC juiced or innocent. However, assuming he had juiced, he is probably not doing it now due to extra scrutiny and due to the fact that he was already caught once. So, under the same assumption, he should be playing considerably less powerful game than he did in USO 2014.
By the same assumption, he wasn't juicing in 2014, either, as he was already under scrutiny. His provisional sanction came the year before, until he was absolved.
 

I.Haychew

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Well, thank god they finally got out of the traffic.
Of the so-called "Big 4", I'm a Federer fan. However...These guys, especially the guy on the right, are Federer fan-boys. The guy on the left tried to act like he was somewhat objective. But the guy on the right appears to be a "dyed in the wool" Federer fan. I'd have preferred traffic noise over their commentaries/analyses.
 
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Moxie

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Of the so-called "Big 4", I'm a Federer fan. However...These guys, especially the guy on the right, are Federer fan-boys. The guy on the left tried to act like he was somewhat objective. But the guy on the right appears to be a "dyed in the wool" Federer fan. I'd have preferred traffic noise over their commentary.
The guy on the right, with the strong Italian accent, is Ubaldo Scanagatta. He's a very well-considered tennis journalist. I don't so much know Flink, but Britbox does. In fairness, who's going to talk about this final and not talk a lot about Federer? I don't even want him to win, but I don't know what to say about Cilic except that: either he plays the match of his life, as he played in the US Open last rounds, or he's going to lose, unless Federer folds.
 

britbox

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The guy on the right, with the strong Italian accent, is Ubaldo Scanagatta. He's a very well-considered tennis journalist. I don't so much know Flink, but Britbox does. In fairness, who's going to talk about this final and not talk a lot about Federer? I don't even want him to win, but I don't know what to say about Cilic except that: either he plays the match of his life, as he played in the US Open last rounds, or he's going to lose, unless Federer folds.

Steve Flink is a very well-considered journalist - he was elected to the Tennis Hall of Fame on that basis and goes in this July.

So Flink's summary is not to rule out Cilic with an overall prediction that Federer has the edge and wins in 4. Seeing as Federer hasn't dropped a set, won the only major of the year, done the sunshine double and won Halle - I don't think that's exhibiting wild fanboyism at any stretch.
 
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Moxie

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And did they not say that Federer has never won Wimbledon without dropping a set? If so, just an extra thing to look for on Sunday. (Not to stress you kids out any further. :good:)
 

britbox

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And did they not say that Federer has never won Wimbledon without dropping a set? If so, just an extra thing to look for on Sunday. (Not to stress you kids out any further. :good:)

Yep, although he's got to the final twice without dropping a set. 2006 and 2008, won one, lost one and of course dropped a set in the 2006 final which he ended up winning.
 

I.Haychew

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The guy on the right, with the strong Italian accent, is Ubaldo Scanagatta. He's a very well-considered tennis journalist. I don't so much know Flink, but Britbox does. In fairness, who's going to talk about this final and not talk a lot about Federer? I don't even want him to win, but I don't know what to say about Cilic except that: either he plays the match of his life, as he played in the US Open last rounds, or he's going to lose, unless Federer folds.

I want Federer to win. But, unlike the guy on the right, I'm not a so-called "objective journalist" who, in my opinion, also wants Federer to win. Or maybe he isn't an objective journalist. I can't say, because I don't know. Federer is in the final. So, of course you have to talk about Federer. Just don't imply that the match is completely on Federer's racquet which, in my opinion, is what he did. Must Cilic play the match of his life in order to win? Maybe, maybe not. That's not the point.
 

Moxie

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I want Federer to win. But, unlike the guy on the right, I'm not a so-called "objective journalist" who, in my opinion, also wants Federer to win. Or maybe he isn't an objective journalist. I can't say, because I don't know. Federer is in the final. So, of course you have to talk about Federer. Just don't imply that the match is completely on Federer's racquet which, in my opinion, is what he did. Must Cilic play the match of his life in order to win? Maybe, maybe not. That's not the point.
I appreciate that you say that: that the match isn't always on Roger's racquet. Another poster actually said that shortly ago (that the match is always on Fed's racquet.) It's an arrogant thing to say. It's not the same thing as saying "favorite." I will say that Cilic is going to have to play to his max capabilities. But it's also fair to say that Roger will, too. If he slouches, or blinks, or shanks too much, Cilic is just the guy to take advantage. Given all of the options this year, I've always argued that Cilic was in-form. Hopefully it's a good final.
 

I.Haychew

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Steve Flink is a very well-considered journalist - he was elected to the Tennis Hall of Fame on that basis and goes in this July.

So Flink's summary is not to rule out Cilic with an overall prediction that Federer has the edge and wins in 4. Seeing as Federer hasn't dropped a set, won the only major of the year, done the sunshine double and won Halle - I don't think that's exhibiting wild fanboyism at any stretch.

The only stretch is that Federer won the the only major of the year. Depends on your view of the French Open, I guess.
 

Moxie

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The only stretch is that Federer won the the only major of the year. Depends on your view of the French Open, I guess.
:lol3::clap: Good one. Given my recent campaign complaining that the clay gets short shrift, I should have pegged that one. I just read in "other."
 

GameSetAndMath

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By the same assumption, he wasn't juicing in 2014, either, as he was already under scrutiny. His provisional sanction came the year before, until he was absolved.

No. That is not true. He was caught in March or April of that year and put on silent ban. If he was juicing, he probably would have stopped immediately. However, the effect of old juice should be there for at least an year and so he might have had an unfair advantage in USO 2014 if indeed he was juicing before.

He looks, acts and speaks like a decent guy though. However, we cannot go by appearances and we personally don't know him.
 

Moxie

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No. That is not true. He was caught in March or April of that year and put on silent ban. If he was juicing, he probably would have stopped immediately. However, the effect of old juice should be there for at least an year and so he might have had an unfair advantage in USO 2014 if indeed he was juicing before.

He looks, acts and speaks like a decent guy though. However, we cannot go by appearances and we personally don't know him.
You may know better, but I'm not sure if you know how long glucose stays in the system. It was 18 months (aprox.) from his test to his USO win. Any idea? Given that it's sugar, I'd say short-term.
 

GameSetAndMath

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You may know better, but I'm not sure if you know how long glucose stays in the system. It was 18 months (aprox.) from his test to his USO win. Any idea? Given that it's sugar, I'd say short-term.

Yes, you are right. His 9 month ban started from May 1, 2013. I don't think it is about glucose. The substance is called Nikethamide.
The following lines are verbatim from a news article.


"Nikethamide is a stimulant that is mainly used to treat overdoses of sedatives.

It enhances aspects of respiration and the amount of oxygen attached to haemoglobin, improving the delivery to muscles.

Used in the middle of a tennis match, the chemical could perhaps have given Cilic, who is 24, a short-lived boost."

It appears that the effect might not have lasted that long. But, I am no pharmacist or chemist.
 

GameSetAndMath

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What, exactly, constitutes "juicing" in the world of pro tennis? I sincerely do not know.

Juicing is doing taking any substances prohibited by WADA/ITF/ATP. If you to WADA site, you can find a list of all banned substances.
That will be too technical though. Fundamentally, there are two things that people indulge in: 1) Steroids for muscle growth and power
and 2) Blood doping for faster recovery and quick action in matches.
 

El Dude

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I see either three hard fought sets won by Roger (e.g. 7-6, 7-6, 6-4), or or four sets with Cilic taking one but Roger fighting back and taking it (e.g. 7-6, 3-6, 7-5, 6-2). I know Cilic is a threat, and I wouldn't even be surprised to see him win another Slam or do as the Big Four age (Marinimal?), but it is hard seeing Roger losing this one. He finds a way.
 
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atttomole

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This will be a tough match. I hope Roger maintains his focus and his workmanlike approach, which have taken him to the final. Roger in 4 sets.
 
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Front242

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For the record, it was high glucose levels. That's sugar. Cough Drop, indeed. You're going to accuse me of defending Cilic because he's playing Roger, but I have said this for a long time, on both DT and TF: what the ITF bought was that Cilic took an electrolyte drink of some kind, and it had something he wasn't supposed to take. I'm not saying that's the answer, but it's not implausible, as it may have, in fact, been bought over the counter. My bone to pick is that you are always so convinced about the ones you choose to be convinced about, and completely head in the sand, when it suits you. Didn't you defend Troicki, who, at the same approximate time, refused a test and got banned? But why? I understand that the ITF hasn't given anyone reason to trust them. But fans who are so sure that they know what goes down I find equally suspect in their motivations. Unlike you, I've never cared much for Cilic, and I have no reason to defend him. But for those who express so much outrage about some players, and claim so much moral rectitude, and then ignore similar situations about others...well, I find that hard to square. It's a guessing game for all of us, and the ITF had better soon learn to make it less so.

Huh? Me defend Troicki? Um, no. Why the hell would anyone in their right mind defend someone refusing a test ? That was the most blatantly stupid thing I heard in years that we were supposed to believe his fear of needles was his excuse. Clearly bs. No one likes needles let's be real but he's a professional tennis player and knows they have to test him. Your bone to pick is way off target as I actually think ALL of the ones caught are guilty. They always give the same bs excuse. "I bought an over the counter product that contained banned substances" and a new low with Cilic who blamed his mum. A grown man using his mum as an excuse for doping. Seriously. :facepalm:

For the record, he used the same bs excuse about glucose that he probably researched online, eg. below. "Edwards contends that she took her stimulant unknowingly in glucose tablets given by her chiropractor. "Unfortunately," her management agency said yesterday, "this particular brand, Coramine Glucose, contained a small amount of nikethamide."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2004/jul/16/athletics.duncanmackay

Now back to Cilic who took Nikethamide. "It is available as a short-acting over-the-counter drug in several South American and European countries, combined with glucose in form of lozenges. Nikethamide is a stimulant which mainly affects the respiratory cycle. It is especially useful for mountain climbers to increase endurance at high altitudes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikethamide

^ He knew exactly what he was doing and it was no mistake, unless people want to be gullible. And the glucose is a masking agent and spikes insulin levels. The thing he was busted for was Nikethamide...which makes you a Duracell bunny. He plays a lot of long matches these days. 17-15 in the 5th against Querrey in Wimbledon 2012.
 
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