2017 Wimbledon Championships - Men

[Federberg]

I hear you and agree.

As for my phrasing, I think you know what I mean. I mean we could break it down further and without looking at the stats (I'm at the beach, and shouldn't be focusing on this discussion anyway), I'd rank the big three in terms of greatness as follows:

1. RAFA clay
2. ROGER grass
3. ROGER fast hard
4. NOVAK slow hard
5. ROGER slow hard
6. RAFA slow hard
7. NOVAK fast hard
8. NOVAK grass
8. NOVAK clay
10. ROGER clay
11. RAFA grass
12. RAFA fast hard

Of course these are debatable and they don't account for the prominence of the different surfaces, but the list illustrates that Rafa is both the strongest of the three in his preferred surface, and the weakest of the three on the other surfaces...with the caveat that they're all varying degrees of great on all surfaces. Even Rafa on fast hards was pretty damn good for a few years.


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I'm not sure Novak has earned the right to be ranked above Roger on clay yet has he? How many finals has he been in?

 

[Federberg]

Can't wait for the quibbles, but I might rank Rafa higher than Roger on slow hards and maybe also on grass vs Roger on clay. Will have to do some research later.


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I'm guessing you're just trying to be provocative here? How many slow hard tournaments has Rafa won compared to Roger? And I'm not even going to point out the slam differential. Please enjoy the beach....

 

[Federberg]

I don't know all the history, either, though I do know that the English and French sort of co-developed tennis, and the classic clash between them is also illustrated in the English grass/French clay. RG was only designated in the 20s, but so was Australasia, and the US Open came later. And France always had a major tournament.

I disagree that there are still players that play clay only. That's a '90s and earlier idea. Some play clay more. But hey, Dustin Brown barely features most of the year. He's a grass specialist. It happens, but anyone would say the ones who do best on clay also do really well across the year. (Nadal, Verdasco, Ferrer, Cuevas, Fernando Gonzalez...I could go on.)

Your "perception," as I bolded above, demonstrates the prejudice I mentioned. And I think it's easier to explain even than you did: it's goes back, basically to the Gallic-British clash. And as so many British, Australian and US players prevailed for so many years, so did grass, even though they all played grass and clay. So grass seems so "traditional," and Wimbledon is the trophy that everyone prizes above all, but clay has actually won the day, in terms of the calendar. The perception of grass being superior doesn't match the way the sport has diminished it. It's a vestige of British colonial days to think that grass matters more in tennis than clay. Sure, we have a romantic attachment to the grass, but clay is a seriously important part of the calendar. Surely not a "weird cousin."

Think you might be talking about "real tennis". Lawn tennis - i.e., the modern version - was designed by an English gentleman in the 19th century I believe

 

[Federberg]

BB, you are part of the cognitive dissonance that pretends not to have a fear of Nadal at Wimbledon, but is frankly relieved that he's out. And don't tell me it's just the pure hatred that makes you happy to see him out. Right?

I don't think many Fed fans were that fearful about Rafa at this tournament Moxie. Fearful of the draw, absolutely. But, and I dare to speak for the brethren, if our boy got to the finals against your guy this time, we would have been rubbing our hands gleefully expecting revenge for '08. I think recent evidence justified our confidence. What scares us is getting there, Roger has a murder row to navigate...

 

[kskate2]

Anyone know why Djoker is getting his arm tended to?

 

[britbox]

Preparing him for the handshake at the net.

 

[kskate2]

Mannarino is nice to look at but man he is a serious pusher!

 

[britbox]

Djoker bringing up the state of the courts in the after match interview. Seems like it's consensus among the players that the courts are abysmal.

 

[Denis]

Worried about the shoulder. He needs to play three best of three matches in four days.

 

[kskate2]

Djoker bringing up the state of the courts in the after match interview. Seems like it's consensus among the players that the courts are abysmal.

On my ESPN telecast he walked the umpire out to the middle of the court and showed him a large hole in the grass. It was pretty big. At least 3 quarters wide.

 

[MartyB]

I don't think many Fed fans were that fearful about Rafa at this tournament Moxie. Fearful of the draw, absolutely. But, and I dare to speak for the brethren, if our boy got to the finals against your guy this time, we would have been rubbing our hands gleefully expecting revenge for '08. I think recent evidence justified our confidence. What scares us is getting there, Roger has a murder row to navigate...

That AO victory basically altered tennis history and made Federer's play this year an extraordinary experience. I don't fear anyone he's playing against. I'm almost calm when I watch his matches...Do I think it's a slam dunk for Fed to win GS #19 no. But I'll take his chances....

 

[DarthFed]

Mannarino is nice to look at but man he is a serious pusher!

Lol, really? You need some better taste Miss KS

 

[Federberg]

Lol, really? You need some better taste Miss KS

DF really? You're going to argue with a woman about whether some dude is hot?

 

[DarthFed]

Ugh, I do feel a little stupid now. Let it be known I'm comfortable with my sexuality lol.

 

[kskate2]

Lol, really? You need some better taste Miss KS

Listen. It's not like I have a variety of choices this fortnight. Delicious went out early. Of the eight studs left in the draw, I'm sorry but not a whole lot to look at there. Good thing I watch purely for the tennis. :lulz2:

 

[DarthFed]

I figured KS was more on the Grigor and Safin train like all the other dames.

 

[DarthFed]

Listen. It's not like I have a variety of choices this fortnight. Delicious went out early. Of the eight studs left in the draw, I'm sorry but not a whole lot to look at there. Good thing I watch purely for the tennis. :lulz2:

Look on and cheer the old man Fed! At the very least he is the opposite of a man shooting blanks

 

[britbox]

Listen. It's not like I have a variety of choices this fortnight. Delicious went out early. Of the eight studs left in the draw, I'm sorry but not a whole lot to look at there. Good thing I watch purely for the tennis. :lulz2:

Is Stepanek still in the doubles?

 

[kskate2]

I figured KS was more on the Grigor and Safin train like all the other dames.

Grigor is OK to look at but he's gone too now. There's really nobody even in the running left in the draw. Domi maybe, but he needs a haircut.

 

[kskate2]

Is Stepanek still in the doubles?

I don't know, but yuck. Lipps is not even remotely attractive.