2017 US Open Semifinals: Nadal vs. Del Potro

[britbox]

Interesting thoughts... Funnily enough I remember from memory a segment of the AO final loss against Wawrinka where Nadal was virtually immobile for a patch and he was uber aggressive with anything that was remotely in range and it was pretty impressive.

 

[imjimmy]

Thanks for posting that, @imjimmy. Interesting insights. On the notion of Rafa refusing "to believe how good he really is," I think this kind of Toni's fault. He himself has admitted that, if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't have been so hard on Rafael. In the interest of keeping his nephew grounded, and not have him get too up himself, Toni was sparse with praise and profligate with criticism. I'm not trying to do a "poor pitiful Rafa," here, but I do think that Rafa could do with a bit more of what Roger has, which is a healthier dose of the notion of his own greatness.

I agree with this. Rafa's autobiography sheds some interesting insights on his relationship with Toni. And not all of it is good.

But then it's hard to argue with 16 slams. The only question is: might there have been more with a conventional coaching set up and more exposure. It's very unusual for a top player to have the same coach for decades..

 

[imjimmy]

Interesting thoughts... Funnily enough I remember from memory a segment of the AO final loss against Wawrinka where Nadal was virtually immobile for a patch and he was uber aggressive with anything that was remotely in range and it was pretty impressive.

I agree. Nadal has the tools to be aggressive but generally chooses to play safer unless he has no choice. There have been several matches like this where Nadal has his back against the wall and has to play aggressive. The match against Del Potro in Wimbledon 2011 - he appeared to have injured his foot and had restricted mobility. He was absolutely clubbing the ball that time. Against Novak in UsOpen 2011 for the 3rd set - where he was getting blown away and has no choice but to let loose. Against Soderling in Wimbledon 2010 where he lost set 1 and could have lost the match. Funny but sometimes he plays more aggressively on grass because he knows it is impossible there to camp several feet behind the baseline.

Interestingly when Nadal started out he used to hit with less spin and was a natural attacker. He's changed his game with time.

 

[Ricardo]

I'm pretty sure every youtube video you might find of Rafa playing/practicing right-handed is just a flipped image. Look for the clues. He doesn't practice right-handed, as there is no point. His power is on his left side, which is why he's a left-footed striker in football.

correct, didn't look for clues at all as his ball striking was so fierce i just focused on that. Having seen both Rafa and Fed practice up close, they are definitely completely different animals. In practice Federer is totally not intense, and he does a lot of different things as if he just wants to experiment a bit. In contrast Nadal plays like he wants to take your head off even in practice.

 

[Carol]

I think some people confuses the regular practice (everyday) with the practice hours before their match.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Interesting thoughts... Funnily enough I remember from memory a segment of the AO final loss against Wawrinka where Nadal was virtually immobile for a patch and he was uber aggressive with anything that was remotely in range and it was pretty impressive.

I remember the patch you're talking about. I've seen Nadal do this on a couple of occasions, the other one being against Djokovic at the 2011 US Open final. Nadal was down two sets and a break, and had virtually nothing more to lose, so he decided to start swinging. He was absolutely crushing the ball and it was amazing that he was barely missing despite playing so ultra aggressive. He won the set as a result.

I think Nadal in theory, is capable of playing that way (or something close because those examples are a bit extreme), but it's way too late in his career to be able to make this sort of adjustment. Too much muscle memory, and it's not like his style hasn't been working.

 

[Moxie]

I agree with this. Rafa's autobiography sheds some interesting insights on his relationship with Toni. And not all of it is good.

But then it's hard to argue with 16 slams. The only question is: might there have been more with a conventional coaching set up and more exposure. It's very unusual for a top player to have the same coach for decades..

Don't misunderstand me. I think that Toni was the perfect coach for Rafa. And keeping him at home rather than sending him to the national academy in Barcelona was the right choice. I'm just saying that Toni tried to keep him from believing that he was so good, and that hard work was the way forward.

I agree. Nadal has the tools to be aggressive but generally chooses to play safer unless he has no choice. There have been several matches like this where Nadal has his back against the wall and has to play aggressive. The match against Del Potro in Wimbledon 2011 - he appeared to have injured his foot and had restricted mobility. He was absolutely clubbing the ball that time. Against Novak in UsOpen 2011 for the 3rd set - where he was getting blown away and has no choice but to let loose. Against Soderling in Wimbledon 2010 where he lost set 1 and could have lost the match. Funny but sometimes he plays more aggressively on grass because he knows it is impossible there to camp several feet behind the baseline.

Interestingly when Nadal started out he used to hit with less spin and was a natural attacker. He's changed his game with time.

When Nadal was young, he was completely fearless. With age, and stature, he has retreated to a more conservative game. I think that is probably natural inclination. Something he's now having to overcome, in order to stay relevant. I hope that Moya can inspire the next phase.

 

[Ricardo]

I'm just saying that Toni tried to keep him from believing that he was so good, and that hard work was the way forward.

which is possibly why Toni didn't breed another Tomic, Safin and their kind, talented guys who are into indulging with their fame and money, but not hard work.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I agree. I would say against Djokovic and Federer, Nadal probably needs to step up his aggression.
As far as I am concerned, Rafa hasn't countered the new aggressive tactics that Fed showed against him in IW/Miami/AO-Final.
It will be interesting to see what happens when they both meet again. Against Fed, the predictability of his CC forehand and CC backhand hurt Rafa.

The encouraging thing is that against Delpo (in the UsOpen SF) Rafa was willing to regularly hit his off-forehand (DTL and i/o) to make sure Delpo didn't camp on his backhand side. He also stepped in, took the backhand DTL early to change directions.

Can Rafa be less predictable and more aggressive against Federer/Djokovic next year? His off-forehand and backhand DTL will be key - as those shots break his usual patterns (cc forehand - cc backhand) and allow him to dominate earlier in the point. But these shots are lower percentage (for him) and he prefers to not use them as much. Clearly the regular play isn't enough if Federer or Djokovic are playing well..

Apparently, Moya agrees with my concerns about Novak ' returning to the tour next year

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/05/carlo...derestimating-novak-djokovic-in-2018-6979233/