2017 Australian Open Final: FEDAL XXXV

Who will win the title?


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    21

Front242

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Kieran said:
Front242 said:
Kieran said:
Seriously Front, you should quit now. You accused Roger of doping in the dope thread, and you always suspected players who come straight back after a long break and win straight away. But now, you're changing your tune. That's fair enough. Just don't be surprised when you're called on it...

Actually no, I said "Quite possible they're all taking something to be quite honest though I hope not." Maybe they're all taking massive dosages of Korean red ginseng. That of course doesn't mean they're doping. For the record though, clearly the guys who don't get tired stick out like a sore thumb more than guys who win by hitting their opponents off the court with skill and precision. There's quite a difference. Skill versus endurance. It's a no brainer.

Actually no, you said:

Front242 said:
So the biggest and best site discussing doping in tennis announced it's closure before the AO finals this year. Can't say I blame the admin really as the finals are pretty farcical. It's like we're going back in time and none of them get any older. RIP tennis. The sport is FUBAR.

David Walsh would be proud of your flip-flopping, bro, and the courage you have in defending your opinion. FUBAR, indeed.. :cover

Yeah and? To quote Nadal, Iz the true, no? Same finals as 2009 in ATP and WTA. Pretty eyebrow raising for most ardent fans of tennis. As I said, above, maybe they're all taking massive amounts of Korean ginseng...
 

Kieran

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When you believe something, brother, don't let your emotions rule your skull.

EDIT: Just in case the Dude missed it, I posed a question to him above, as it seemed time to move the topic on. Have a gander, Dude, I'd be interested in what you say...
 

Front242

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Kieran said:
When you believe something, brother, don't let your emotions rule your skull.

EDIT: Just in case the Dude missed it, I posed a question to him above, as it seemed time to move the topic on. Have a gander, Dude, I'd be interested in what you say...

The emotions of Nadal fans here seem to think he mostly lost 'cos he didn't get enough rest. Poor little Wafa. Aw. Make sure you're in bed before 8pm before the next big match, Wafa so uncle phoney can read you a bedtime story and tuck you in with your teddy bear.
 

Kieran

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It used to be you slagged him when he recovered, and now you slag him when he didn't. You're all over the place, mate...
 

Front242

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Kieran said:
It used to be you slagged him when he recovered, and now you slag him when he didn't. You're all over the place, mate...

I'm not the slightest bit all over the place because I don't believe he was in any way fatigued whatsoever that impacted his playing. I've seen him outlast opponents time and time again and the reason you're all so sore about this is because of who he lost to...
 

Carol

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Front242 said:
Carol35 said:
AGAIN! nobody has said that Roger didn't make a good shots and he didn't play aggressive, everybody agree with that

LOL, here's what you said earlier about why Nadal didn't win. Sour grapes much? http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5309&pid=247986#pid247986

More LOL, did I said that Rafa was playing better than Roger in that fifth set? did I?
And even more LOL, are you talking about sour grapes when you always look so anger comment by comment? do you think that win has changed the past or whatever will come in the future?
 

GameSetAndMath

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Folks should watch/read Rafa's interview after the SF match. He was asked straight as to whether it is unfair that he will get only a day of rest, whereas Roger would get 2 days rest. Rafa clearly said, no it is not unfair. Rafa said he gets a day of rest (and so there is effectively 48 hours gap between his SF and F) and so, it is not unfair. Rafa said that if he has to come the next day (i.e., playe after 24 hours) while Roger had one day of rest would be unfair. In fact, Rafa went onto say that old US Open scheduling is unfair (even though both SFs are on the same day) as the players don't have enough time to recover and play well in the finals.
 

mightyjeditribble

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Carol35 said:
I'm glad that this Roger's win has been the biggest of his career, it means a lot to me but after to read for years from his frenetic fans so much trash about Nadal and his brilliant and clean career, since now I'd like to see what else they could say....

Two wrongs don't make a right. You're just being as bad as whoever these "fans" are you mention.

It certainly wasn't me, and TBH I find your comments offensive. If there is someone specific who has said things about Nadal in the past and you want to call them out about it, fair enough (though I personally can't see the point), but it's extremely tiresome that you persist in

1) painting all of Federer's fans with the same brush, and
2) yourself trying to raise some questions about Federer when you don't like it when others have done it about Nadal.
 

mightyjeditribble

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Front242 said:
To quote Nadal, Iz the true, no?

While I disagree with the context of your post (trying to insinuate foul play against players without injury), I had to laugh at this.

Andy Roddick was the GOAT of post-match interviews in my opinion, but I love hearing Nadal too. He comes across as genuine, honest, grounded and fair-minded.
 

Carol

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mightyjeditribble said:
Carol35 said:
I'm glad that this Roger's win has been the biggest of his career, it means a lot to me but after to read for years from his frenetic fans so much trash about Nadal and his brilliant and clean career, since now I'd like to see what else they could say....

Two wrongs don't make a right. You're just being as bad as whoever these "fans" are you mention.

It certainly wasn't me, and TBH I find your comments offensive. If there is someone specific who has said things about Nadal in the past and you want to call them out about it, fair enough (though I personally can't see the point), but it's extremely tiresome that you persist in

1) painting all of Federer's fans with the same brush, and
2) yourself trying to raise some questions about Federer when you don't like it when others have done it about Nadal.

If you has read well my comments you can see that I always say "SOME of the Roger's fans"
And if I rise some questions it's because I'm tired to read SOME people trying to rise questions about Nadal. It seems that hey are taking the same medicine and it's true that it's not funny at all, isn't ?
 

mightyjeditribble

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Carol35 said:
mightyjeditribble said:
Carol35 said:
I'm glad that this Roger's win has been the biggest of his career, it means a lot to me but after to read for years from his frenetic fans so much trash about Nadal and his brilliant and clean career, since now I'd like to see what else they could say....

Two wrongs don't make a right. You're just being as bad as whoever these "fans" are you mention.

It certainly wasn't me, and TBH I find your comments offensive. If there is someone specific who has said things about Nadal in the past and you want to call them out about it, fair enough (though I personally can't see the point), but it's extremely tiresome that you persist in

1) painting all of Federer's fans with the same brush, and
2) yourself trying to raise some questions about Federer when you don't like it when others have done it about Nadal.

If you has read well my comments you can see that I always say "SOME of the Roger's fans"
And if I rise some questions it's because I'm tired to read SOME people trying to rise questions about Nadal. It seems that hey are taking the same medicine and it's true that it's not funny at all, isn't ?

With all respect, Carol, you don't always say "SOME of his fans", in fact if you look at the post you quoted you just refer to "his frenetic fans". Moreover, even if you don't say it, your comments often insinuate that this behaviour somehow is connected / correlated with being a Federer fan, and it is not.

And, let me say it again, doing something you don't like other people doing because they do it too really doesn't cut the mustard with me - particularly when it affects plenty of people (e.g. reasonable Federer fans) who had nothing to do with what offended you in the first place. Rafa and Fed manage to comport themselves well, should their fans not do the same?
 

mightyjeditribble

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Front242 said:
It's no secret, Nadal only apparently loses 'cos he's injured or in this case we can add 'cos he's tired. Aw, poor Rafa. Life is so unfair.

I haven't known Nadal to make excuses when he loses. Some of his fans may do, but so do some of those of other top players. Plenty of Nadal fans don't, and neither does the man himself.

In any case, surely we Fed fans can afford to be a little magnanimous in view of his victory?
 

El Dude

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Kieran said:
Interesting post, Dude, particularly the last bit. I long understand that you appreciate Rafa, but I always find it hard to understand when people don't like his heart on the sleeve displays of wild swashbuckling tennis. Rafa to me has the most heroic style, because he's playing with his "bad hand" - and so must be the most supremely gifted of players, but he's also brave and tough, he brings human drama to a match that we don't really get from anyone else. Rafa in full cry is an amazing sight. I think a lot of players love to watch him too, just because of how compelling he is. I'd be interested in what you don't appreciate him...

Putting aside my wounds as a Federer fan, so let's say watching Rafa play someone else, I find it to be a mixed bag. I love what he can do - his heart, his amazingly clutch shots. But I'm not a huge fan of attrition play: wearing your opponent down until he makes a mistake. Rafa doesn't always do this, but he often does this. I have respect for the effectiveness of it, I just don't like it aesthetically. But again, Rafa is far more than that. Time and time again in the final vs. Federer, I was awed (and dismayed) by the shots Rafa pulled off at the most crucial moments.

I don't see him as the most supremely gifted of players, but I do see him as the greatest competitor I've ever seen, with the possible exception of Sampras (that is one match-up I would have loved to see). In terms of the big game, there is no one greater.
 

Carol

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mightyjeditribble said:
Carol35 said:
mightyjeditribble said:
Two wrongs don't make a right. You're just being as bad as whoever these "fans" are you mention.

It certainly wasn't me, and TBH I find your comments offensive. If there is someone specific who has said things about Nadal in the past and you want to call them out about it, fair enough (though I personally can't see the point), but it's extremely tiresome that you persist in

1) painting all of Federer's fans with the same brush, and
2) yourself trying to raise some questions about Federer when you don't like it when others have done it about Nadal.

If you has read well my comments you can see that I always say "SOME of the Roger's fans"
And if I rise some questions it's because I'm tired to read SOME people trying to rise questions about Nadal. It seems that hey are taking the same medicine and it's true that it's not funny at all, isn't ?

With all respect, Carol, you don't always say "SOME of his fans", in fact if you look at the post you quoted you just refer to "his frenetic fans". Moreover, even if you don't say it, your comments often insinuate that this behaviour somehow is connected / correlated with being a Federer fan, and it is not.

And, let me say it again, doing something you don't like other people doing because they do it too really doesn't cut the mustard with me - particularly when it affects plenty of people (e.g. reasonable Federer fans) who had nothing to do with what offended you in the first place. Rafa and Fed manage to comport themselves well, should their fans not do the same?

When I said "frenetic" it means clearly of whom I'm referring, clear like crystal. And yeah, I don't like to look like them but they effort the situation. On the other hand I don't think I said something offensive when I'm saying that Roger played very good but with some advantage, don't you like it? sorry but it's my opinion, that's all. I know some Roger's fan very fair and good ones and they have the same opinion than me in this particular case
 

mightyjeditribble

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Carol35 said:
When I said "frenetic" it means clearly of whom I'm referring, clear like crystal. And yeah, I don't like to look like them but they effort the situation. On the other hand I don't think I said something offensive when I'm saying that Roger played very good but with some advantage, don't you like it? sorry but it's my opinion, that's all. I know some Roger's fan very fair and good ones and they have the same opinion than me in this particular case

Well, it wasn't and isn't crystal clear to me. According to google, "frenetic" means "fast and energetic in a rather wild and uncontrolled way", which can well describe my reaction when Fed won that last game of the match. ;)

Certainly it is a reasonable opinion that Nadal might have won the match if he had had an extra day's rest, but it's also a reasonable opinion to think that he might not have done. Acting as though one of them is the obvious truth and anyone who thinks differently must be wrong [as people on both sides have done on this thread] doesn't seem helpful to me.
 

Kieran

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El Dude said:
Kieran said:
Interesting post, Dude, particularly the last bit. I long understand that you appreciate Rafa, but I always find it hard to understand when people don't like his heart on the sleeve displays of wild swashbuckling tennis. Rafa to me has the most heroic style, because he's playing with his "bad hand" - and so must be the most supremely gifted of players, but he's also brave and tough, he brings human drama to a match that we don't really get from anyone else. Rafa in full cry is an amazing sight. I think a lot of players love to watch him too, just because of how compelling he is. I'd be interested in what you don't appreciate him...

Putting aside my wounds as a Federer fan, so let's say watching Rafa play someone else, I find it to be a mixed bag. I love what he can do - his heart, his amazingly clutch shots. But I'm not a huge fan of attrition play: wearing your opponent down until he makes a mistake. Rafa doesn't always do this, but he often does this. I have respect for the effectiveness of it, I just don't like it aesthetically. But again, Rafa is far more than that. Time and time again in the final vs. Federer, I was awed (and dismayed) by the shots Rafa pulled off at the most crucial moments.

I don't see him as the most supremely gifted of players, but I do see him as the greatest competitor I've ever seen, with the possible exception of Sampras (that is one match-up I would have loved to see). In terms of the big game, there is no one greater.

Great post, Dude. I agree with a lot of it. Of course, when I say Rafa is extraordinarily gifted, I'm not just referring to his super-exaggerated shots, but the fact that he's right-handed and yet became the best player in the world playing lefthanded. To me, that's not only unique, but a testament to his amazing talent. I'm sure you appreciate this also.

As for attritional play, we have Novak, and in the past we had Borg, Lendl and Mats and others. They'd lie in wait - some of them - chasing and racing and wearing their foe down. Rafa can be like this, but he's clever too (as they all are), he's trying to work the opponent into a corner, lassoing great forehands and driving them demented. I suppose that what makes him more exciting to his fans, and more horrible to fans of his opponent, is how graphic Rafa is, how loud and physical, his menacing demeanour, the sheer drama and shape of his play. He seems less controlled, less taught in some ways, there's a seat of the pants defensiveness there, but then followed by a walloping, bullying aspect too.

There's an adventurousness about Rafa that I really love.

Borg was attritional but in a very safe, boring way, much as I loved him. His shots went 3 feet over the net, they looped safely about a yard inside the baseline, he wasn't really the aggressor. Rafa is much more aggressive about it. I suppose those two players are really very different but they can be tied together two, as the two greatest claycourters who also ventured and succeeded elsewhere.

When Rafa's on, his shotmaking is exhilarating. When he's off, he's plain ugly, the ugliest of all the great players.

Totally agree about Sampras. Himself and Rafa are the two greatest competitors I've seen. A match between them would be nasty. It'd be vicious and gory. I don't see either of them backing down. A pity we'll never see it...

EDIT: mightyjeditribble, welcome to your first Fedal war on this forum! :clap :)
 

mrzz

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Just to add to the number of Federer fans who acknowledge Nadal´s talent, Federer himself put it in a one liner which sums up quite well: "He [Nadal] has shots that no one else has, that´s how unique and special he is."
 

lob

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Roger almost never used the backhand slice. That's five sets without what used to be a bread and butter shot. He took the backhand early almost without exception. It was a high risk strategy. It worked because Roger got some good advice and for once he took it, the surface allowed it, Rafa hadn't had a good look at him recently and somehow Roger managed to keep it together in the fifth. That is a lot of special circumstances. Rafa still made it very close and very well might have won. Had that happened, the narrative would then be that 'Rafa owns Roger as usual', 'how can Roger be 'goat' when he is not 'giht'? Etc.Roger needed this match much more badly and he took his chances. What impressed me most was Roger's keen awareness that, with Rafa on the other side, attack is his only defense and damn the risk. Roger referred to a 'nothing to lose mentality' after the SF. In a way, the layoff helped with that attitude. I don't blame Rafa for being a bit out of sorts. H

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lob

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....if there is a next time round in a GS, Rafa will be a lot harder to beat.

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