2016 U.S. Open Final: A. Kerber vs K. Pliskova

[Front242]

And yeah, Navratilova is the best tennis player I've seen too.

 

[the AntiPusher]

What Serena has over Martina is all the athletic and technical advantages of the modern game, such as rackets, tennis balls, training, etc. But Martina was a revolutionary, physically, much more gifted technically, brilliant at facing actual greats and sorting them out, and also the greatest doubles player. To me, she's the best I've seen, and Serena is cumbersome and clumsy compared to her, but she has an equally fierce willpower, and a physical power like nobody, I'll give her that. Serena scraps like Ralph! But although I like her - sometimes - I don't think she's the best I've seen...

I like Ralph but if I had to go to battle , I would be just as comfortable going into battle with Serena if Rafa wasn't able. Jordan, Kobe, Montana, Brady, Tiger, Rafa and Serena are the best competitors I have ever seen.

Show me one time Martina Ever came from the brink of defeat and was able to turn it into a victory. I saw Tracey Austin totally turn her into a mental midget.

 

[Kieran]

What Serena has over Martina is all the athletic and technical advantages of the modern game, such as rackets, tennis balls, training, etc. But Martina was a revolutionary, physically, much more gifted technically, brilliant at facing actual greats and sorting them out, and also the greatest doubles player. To me, she's the best I've seen, and Serena is cumbersome and clumsy compared to her, but she has an equally fierce willpower, and a physical power like nobody, I'll give her that. Serena scraps like Ralph! But although I like her - sometimes - I don't think she's the best I've seen...

I like Ralph but if I had to go to battle , I would be just as comfortable going into battle with Serena if Rafa wasn't able. Jordan, Kobe, Montana, Brady, Tiger, Rafa and Serena are the best competitors I have ever seen.

Show me one time Martina Ever came from the brink of defeat and was able to turn it into a victory. I saw Tracey Austin totally turn her into a mental midget.

Hey brother, I saw Sharapova hammer Serena at Wimbledon. They all had days like that. What was great about Martina was that she went from being a mentally fragile scared youngster - and who could blame her - to being the driving force that changed women's tennis, while scoping up the prizes and facing off against genuine greats, like Chrissy and Steffi. Plus, she had a net game that was advanced. At her best, she was unbeatable, and that even when playing the greats.

By the way, I like Kerber, she seems like a nice girl, and she's had a great year. The trick for her now is to defend her position next year. I think she's got staying power though, although I hate those shots where her legs collapse under her and she's scraping her knees on the ground. But she's good...

EDIT: Just to answer your question, Martina saved match point against Steffi at the US Open in 1986, and won. There are a lot of great matches like that, bro...

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I find it funny people are saying Serena is going down hill when even when she was younger aside from the first Serena Slam days when has she ever been as consistent as she is at the slams now? I'm not going to get in to GOAT debates because it is all relative to what you value in players. Serena has kept herself in position to win these events let's see what she does to prepare for next year. I recall her coach talking more about her injuries than she does these days. If she wants to be a factor, she will figure it out. Even a step slow, she is still keeping up with girls 10-15 years younger than her what does that say about those girls that a 35 year old woman is getting farther than most of them at slams these days. I think she still has what it takes to win these events. I mean if she can still make it to the final of the French then I wouldn't say Wimbledon is her only shot.

 

[tossip]

its being reported that she was dropping like its hot at a Beyonce party day before her match with Pliscova...the same thing she did at RG when she lost to Garbage.

 

[the AntiPusher]

its being reported that she was dropping like its hot at a Beyonce party day before her match with Pliscova...the same thing she did at RG when she lost to Garbage.

Wow..nono

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Kieran said Serena is going downhill.thats like saying Djoker is going downhill, very similar stats wouldn't you agree

I personally think she is going downhill and don't see her winning any other slam besides possibly Wimbledon. She's a nervous wreck in big matches lately and plays crap and then blames some bs injury each and every time.

6 of 8 finals. The other 2 were semifinals ..she may not be who she was previously but the term downhill is not accurate..there has got to be a better euphemism than downhill..maybe Serena is just getting older she isn't able to manages her nerves, emotions and body on the harder surfaces

However just because Serena is the GOAT doesn't mean that she has got to be admired by all tennis fans ..two years from now when she will probably be gone..good luck with watching women's tennis then.. IMO

That is very presumptive and patronizing at the same time. I would give Serena the GOAT status if the argument is restricted to open era. However, I do believe that Helen Wills Moody is the GOAT. She has only lost three times in GS matches in her whole career and went through a streak of six years without losing a match. If she had played all GS events during her career, she would have won 42 Grand Slam Trophies. It is easy to forget her accomplishments as neither you nor me have seen her playing personally. But, her stats are one hell of an amazing stats. Also, it is easy to say that at that time the quality of women's tennis was not good, but same thing can be said about women's tennis now also and so it is merely an era bias. See more details about her in my posts on the GOATESS thread.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

Yeah, but aren't you being presumptive yourself speculating on what HWM would have done? You can only go off of what she has. Like you can only go off what Serena, Graf, Navratilova and others have. You can speculate all you want, but like the other women there are reasons why they have the numbers they do. I can say if Serena didn't have her injuries she had had in her career that she would be up at least 3 more slams than she currently has doesn't matter because it didn't happen that way. HWM career played out how it did for whatever reason it did. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. They all had their moments and things they brought to tennis.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Yeah, but aren't you being presumptive yourself speculating on what HWM would have done? You can only go off of what she has. Like you can only go off what Serena, Graf, Navratilova and others have. You can speculate all you want, but like the other women there are reasons why they have the numbers they do. I can say if Serena didn't have her injuries she had had in her career that she would be up at least 3 more slams than she currently has doesn't matter because it didn't happen that way. HWM career played out how it did for whatever reason it did. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. They all had their moments and things they brought to tennis.

The reason for HWM is not her injuries. In those days, AO was not considered a prestigious event and so many top players did not play in it. HWM did not play even in one AO. So, this is not a coulda woulds shoulda thing. :nono

On the other hand with respect to injury stuff, one can argue that it is a player's responsibility to maintain their bodies in top shape to achieve things.

Let us say Serena wins 25 GS titles and then retires. After that, let us say WTA and ITF decide to introduce a fifth GS. Then a new girl, say Marina, comes along wins 26 Slams and then retires. Would you say Marina is the real GOAT and not Serena? Obviously not. You would fiercely argue that in Serena's time there were only four slams per year whereas now there are five slams per year and so it is not a fair comparison.

That is exactly the situation with Helen Wills Moody. At her time essentially there were only three slams per year, as the AO was considered an itsy-bitsy tourney conducted during Christmas about which nobody bothered. Hence, to take the raw GS count of HWM and compare it directly to Serena's count or other open era player's count is just sacrilegious.

Just shed your fan-girlism and think rationally; then, you would see the merit of the argument.

 

[colleen66]

You can't win a slam losing in the semis.

Kieran said Serena is going downhill.thats like saying Djoker is going downhill, very similar stats wouldn't you agree

I personally think she is going downhill and don't see her winning any other slam besides possibly Wimbledon. She's a nervous wreck in big matches lately and plays crap and then blames some bs injury each and every time.

Any player would kill to only win Wimbledon, including Kerber.

 

[isabelle]

I'ld like Angie to win RG now

 

[Fiero425]

Kieran said Serena is going downhill.thats like saying Djoker is going downhill, very similar stats wouldn't you agree

I personally think she is going downhill and don't see her winning any other slam besides possibly Wimbledon. She's a nervous wreck in big matches lately and plays crap and then blames some bs injury each and every time.

Any player would kill to only win Wimbledon, including Kerber.

Well congrats to Kerber; the 1st woman outside Serena to win 2 majors in a season! :clap - What does that say about their tour good or bad? It's been almost 10 years since Henin won 2 other than Williams; adding Venus with a YEC to make it 1.5 majors! :cover uzzled :nono :angel: :dodgy:

- - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - -

 

[tossip]

Venus won Wimbledon and USA Open in the same year twice...

 

[Fiero425]

Venus won Wimbledon and USA Open in the same year twice...

I guess I had to be more specific about the timeline of 10 years since Henin; OooH, I DID! :nono :dalek:

- - http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2016/08/fan-page-novak-nole-djokovic.html - -

 

[HawkEye]

Serena can easily get it back no points to defend this fall

Serena is 750 points behind Angie in the race. If her knee is really so bad we might not see her until Singapore. I don't see this so easy.

 

[Sundaymorningguy]

I read Serena's interview and while she did say she was hampered by injury, she gave full credit to Pkiskova. She also was consistently hounded about being tired and the scheduling, and she flat out told the reporters if I can't turn around and play a match the next day like I do on regular tour tournaments then maybe I need to rethink my job. So talk throwing her under the bus about blaming injuries for her losses seem ridiculous when she is like if I can't come out and play a match despite whatever is happening then I shouldn't be on the court period.