2015 Masters Series Final Indian Wells: #1 Djokovic v. #2 Federer

[Federberg]

This time I have to side with Kirijax. And don't push me, or I'll say that Nadal is a booger and a fool.

Every fan base here is extremely sensitive with the exception of some truly satisfied Federer fans who feel their man has done enough and his legacy is secured (which is fair) so they're not bothered by most things...unless you bring up the Nadal head to head

There are not more sensitive fans than those aparent satisfied (they are not) Federer fans and not only when you brings up the Nadal H2H but thinking if he could reach those 17 numbers, they are begging for someone could stop him, but nobody can stop him, only the injuries

So he was injured against Raonic? :lolz:

 

[Carol]

Every fan base here is extremely sensitive with the exception of some truly satisfied Federer fans who feel their man has done enough and his legacy is secured (which is fair) so they're not bothered by most things...unless you bring up the Nadal head to head

There are not more sensitive fans than those aparent satisfied (they are not) Federer fans and not only when you brings up the Nadal H2H but thinking if he could reach those 17 numbers, they are begging for someone could stop him, but nobody can stop him, only the injuries

So he was injured against Raonic? :lolz:

Not, he wasn't but he was out of the court for awhile due first to an injury and later a surgery and if you know about sport you should know it's difficult to comeback and to play their best until they play several matches to recovery the routine and the confidence. And meanwhile others are taking the advantage of it :snicker

 

[Federberg]

There are not more sensitive fans than those aparent satisfied (they are not) Federer fans and not only when you brings up the Nadal H2H but thinking if he could reach those 17 numbers, they are begging for someone could stop him, but nobody can stop him, only the injuries

So he was injured against Raonic? :lolz:

Not, he wasn't but he was out of the court for awhile due first to an injury and later a surgery and if you know about sport you should know it's difficult to comeback and to play their best until they play several matches to recovery the routine and the confidence. And meanwhile others are taking the advantage of it :snicker

Oh.. I see then. So he only loses when he's injured or coming back from injuries. That's good to know :cover

 

[Carol]

So he was injured against Raonic? :lolz:

Not, he wasn't but he was out of the court for awhile due first to an injury and later a surgery and if you know about sport you should know it's difficult to comeback and to play their best until they play several matches to recovery the routine and the confidence. And meanwhile others are taking the advantage of it :snicker

Oh.. I see then. So he only loses when he's injured or coming back from injuries. That's good to know :cover

He has lost been healthy too like the others top players but if you follow his career he has had several injuries starting with his foot when he was 16 years old which has been part of his later knee problems and NOT his style to play. He has played many times with pain, sometimes winning sometimes losing and he has been many months off and even that he has 14 GS besides multiples MS. Can you imagine if he would have had those injuries? :emperor::woohoos:wow:

 

[Carol]

Not, he wasn't but he was out of the court for awhile due first to an injury and later a surgery and if you know about sport you should know it's difficult to comeback and to play their best until they play several matches to recovery the routine and the confidence. And meanwhile others are taking the advantage of it :snicker

Oh.. I see then. So he only loses when he's injured or coming back from injuries. That's good to know :cover

He has lost been healthy too like the others top players but if you follow his career he has had several injuries starting with his foot when he was 16 years old which has been part of his later knee problems and NOT his style to play. He has played many times with pain, sometimes winning sometimes losing
and he has been many months off and even that he has 14 GS besides multiples MS. Can you imagine if he would have had those injuries? :emperor::woohoos:wow:

I meant if HE WOULDN'T have had those injuries

 

[Federberg]

^Lots of tennis players play with pain. Get over it. You can indulge yourself with fantasies about woulda coulda. I'm not going to engage with you on that... it's too boring and any fan of another player can come up with alternative what ifs. I merely felt it necessary to pull you up on your patently false comment. I'll move on now... bye bye

 

[brokenshoelace]

^Lots of tennis players play with pain.

You know of many double digit grand slam champions with Nadal's history of injuries? I'm not talking about the times he's played with pain, I'm talking about the times he didn't, which are far more telling.

 

[DarthFed]

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

 

[Federberg]

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

Well said.. it's the price he pays for what he does

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

Remember when I went through Nadal's career injuries one by one and only tendinitis could have been a legit result of his style of play? Yeah, imagine I re-posted that.

Hurting his hamstring against Ferrer when he was going for his Rafa slam in 2011 (AO), hurting his back in a Grand Slam final, hurting his wrist before the US Open last year, having appendicitis surgery, are all a result of his style of play? OK, if you guys say so.

 

[tented]

When Roger starts flicking his fringe with his head down you know he's losing focus and likely serve. The negative body language is easy to spot having seen it so many times at this stage

You can sort of see it coming too with the nonchalance in the return game.. Its hard to keep up the same shotmaking intensity against great defenders like Novak/Nadal/Murray for such a long period of time, especially when the legs and arms start to go. On a fast surface you can sort of figure that a few great shots will put you back in the match, but on the slow stuff it really requires baseline consistency and I don't think he's comfortable matching that type of baseline game anymore against the elites of the draw.

Its one of the big differences between now and his prime. Whereas before he could match athleticism for athleticism and you would figure a 50-50 split at the tail end of the 3rd or 5th set, for the past 6 or 7 years he is suddenly the slower less explosive player. He knows it, the opponent knows it, and it of course spirals out into more UEs.

Getting back to the final ....

If you're correct, and Roger knows it, I'm curious why you think he would have even bothered to work so hard to win the second set? Bragging rights that he took a set off Novak? Because if you're correct, and these days he knows he's going to fade in the third, why would he push so hard to win a second set, after dropping the first?

 

[DarthFed]

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

Remember when I went through Nadal's career injuries one by one and only tendinitis could have been a legit result of his style of play? Yeah, imagine I re-posted that.

Hurting his hamstring against Ferrer when he was going for his Rafa slam in 2011 (AO), hurting his back in a Grand Slam final, hurting his wrist before the US Open last year, having appendicitis surgery, are all a result of his style of play? OK, if you guys say so.

All players including Roger and Nole get injured and sick over the course of a long career. Roger had an ankle injury in 2005, has been sick numerous times, bad back numerous times. Nole has had back and wrist problems and illness too. Rafa's recurring problems have been his knees...whereas Roger and Nole have not had that.

Also, injuries to the wrist, hamstring and back could be due to the cumulative wear and tear from his style of play and even his practice habits (practicing a lot and going all out during them).

 

[DarthFed]

When Roger starts flicking his fringe with his head down you know he's losing focus and likely serve. The negative body language is easy to spot having seen it so many times at this stage

You can sort of see it coming too with the nonchalance in the return game.. Its hard to keep up the same shotmaking intensity against great defenders like Novak/Nadal/Murray for such a long period of time, especially when the legs and arms start to go. On a fast surface you can sort of figure that a few great shots will put you back in the match, but on the slow stuff it really requires baseline consistency and I don't think he's comfortable matching that type of baseline game anymore against the elites of the draw.

Its one of the big differences between now and his prime. Whereas before he could match athleticism for athleticism and you would figure a 50-50 split at the tail end of the 3rd or 5th set, for the past 6 or 7 years he is suddenly the slower less explosive player. He knows it, the opponent knows it, and it of course spirals out into more UEs.

Getting back to the final ....

If you're correct, and Roger knows it, I'm curious why you think he would have even bothered to work so hard to win the second set? Bragging rights that he took a set off Novak? Because if you're correct, and these days he knows he's going to fade in the third, why would he push so hard to win a second set, after dropping the first?

So he doesn't get humiliated in straight sets for starters. Also, I doubt Roger thinks during the 2nd or 4th set that "Even if I win this set I'm done in the decider." But I think Haelfix's point is that Roger does know he is not as fit as the younger players and if it does go to a decider they likely have the edge if it's been a long physical match. It doesn't mean he has no chance, certainly not in his mind anyways.

 

[Federberg]

It's amusing how people often impose their own competitive instincts on stone cold killas like the Big 3. The idea that he knows and accepts he's going to lose doesn't make any sense to me. You only had to see the shakes Nole had at the end of the 2nd set. Any other mortal would have had a performance drop. There was no reason for Roger to believe that he wouldn't have the edge in the final set. It's a testament to the greatness of both of them that they came out and competed at an exceptional level in the the 3rd..

 

[Carol]

^Lots of tennis players play with pain. Get over it. You can indulge yourself with fantasies about woulda coulda. I'm not going to engage with you on that... it's too boring and any fan of another player can come up with alternative what ifs. I merely felt it necessary to pull you up on your patently false comment. I'll move on now... bye bye

It's true that the athletes (any sport) play with some disconfort but you should know it's not the same disconfort than an injury which makes them to be out of the court for long time. I can't tell you how boring is this discussion for me too which I see for many years since Rafa came to the stage but the true is the true of it bothers you or not :speechless: :ras:

 

[Carol]

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

Remember when I went through Nadal's career injuries one by one and only tendinitis could have been a legit result of his style of play? Yeah, imagine I re-posted that.

Hurting his hamstring against Ferrer when he was going for his Rafa slam in 2011 (AO), hurting his back in a Grand Slam final, hurting his wrist before the US Open last year, having appendicitis surgery, are all a result of his style of play? OK, if you guys say so.

They love to say that because it's clear that they don't have any idea where and why his knee injury came from. If it would be due to his style to play can you imagine Novak who every time I see him to play I think his body is going to divide in two parts?
Some players are lucky not getting injuries but not too many of them are

 

[mrzz]

^It is not luck. It is about their bodies. Style of play or not, it was Nadal's body which "failed". It is not "luck", he was not caught by a stray bullet. He wasn't able to compete. Others were. It is a tough world.

 

[Carol]

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

Well said.. it's the price he pays for what he does

Well said? what price? do you think that Federer didn't and doesn't have to make any effort and push himself to crazy extremes? I saw him many times running like crazy trying to win until the last point and smashing the racquet when the things don't go on his own terms. If he haven't had more injuries it's because he is another lucky man, that's all

 

[Federberg]

^Or... B... his style of movement is less conducive to injury

 

[tented]

It's amusing how people often impose their own competitive instincts on stone cold killas like the Big 3.

That's not what Haelfix was doing.

The idea that he knows and accepts he's going to lose doesn't make any sense to me. You only had to see the shakes Nole had at the end of the 2nd set. Any other mortal would have had a performance drop. There was no reason for Roger to believe that he wouldn't have the edge in the final set. It's a testament to the greatness of both of them that they came out and competed at an exceptional level in the the 3rd..

"Exceptional level in the 3rd"? We must have been watching a different match. The one I saw ended 6-2 in the third.