2015 French Open Final: Djokovic v. Wawrinka

[I.Haychew]

Not the result I was wanting, but you have to give credit where credit is due...Wawrinka absolutely KILLED it! He displayed some serious power and shotmaking. What was surprising to me, however, was how well he played defense. He was a wall! VERY entertaining match!

 

[TsarMatt]

Stan!!!!!!!!!!​

What a performance! He was hitting winners off both wings, and just playing absolutely incredible. A truly impeccable win, I can't believe it. He has always been one of my favourite players, but I honestly never thought he was going to win another GS title, especially against peak Djokovic.

With that being said, I really felt for Nole at the end. He had worked so hard to put himself in this position, and, unfortunately, he couldn't capitalise. His sportsmanship at the end of the match was admirable, though. A truly fantastic talent. He'll win RG eventually, but he must be obviously hurting so much now. I got a bit teary at the end when he was crying. Tennis can be a cruel sport. But Djokovic will bounce back - I reckon he'll take Wimbledon and possibly even the USO.

This was worth staying up until 3:30am to watch. This is why I love tennis. To see the underdog win and do so with impeccable shotmaking. A highly enjoyable match.

 

[bajana]

This only makes me like Novak more. Takes it like a man. None of Rogers self-absorbtion. Oh dear.. .he's leaking out now. Can't blame the fella

And here I am, thinking that that this is 2015, and that phrase had long been retired from any semblance of active duty uzzled:nono

 

[10isfan]

I really wanted Djoke to win, but Wawrinka was just too good today.

What a gracious display after losing the match. He deserved the prolonged applause. I did not realize he spoke five languages. Will definitely be rooting for him to complete his career grand slam next year.

I wonder whether having to finish the Murray match the day before affected him. The scheduling should have been better to avoid this situation. Wawrinka had much more time to rest before the final.

 

[Federberg]

I think he still has a couple more chances.

Unless things change drastically he has to be favourite again next year

Why? :huh:

Errr... he straight setted the King of Clay, he beat the de facto number 2 player in the world. He is the uncontested number 1 player in the world, he won the clay master series that he participated in.. what more do you want? As I said... unless things change drastically... what exactly are you objecting to?

 

[Federberg]

missed the match, had to go to church. congrats to stan, but i really thought Novak had this in the bag. But do you guys think this is worst than Rafa's loss to Soderling?

Does anyone have the match in full they can post??

If Novak would withdraw of Wimbledon and not been able to defend his title due to a knee injury then I would tell you this final was so bad like Nadal's loss to Soderling but I don't think it's the same case

:cover
He's better than that...

 

[Kieran]

missed the match, had to go to church. congrats to stan, but i really thought Novak had this in the bag. But do you guys think this is worst than Rafa's loss to Soderling?

Does anyone have the match in full they can post??

If Novak would withdraw of Wimbledon and not been able to defend his title due to a knee injury then I would tell you this final was so bad like Nadal's loss to Soderling but I don't think it's the same case

:cover
He's better than that...

He's better than what? Or are you still sulking?

 

[brokenshoelace]

missed the match, had to go to church. congrats to stan, but i really thought Novak had this in the bag. But do you guys think this is worst than Rafa's loss to Soderling?

Does anyone have the match in full they can post??

If Novak would withdraw of Wimbledon and not been able to defend his title due to a knee injury then I would tell you this final was so bad like Nadal's loss to Soderling but I don't think it's the same case

:cover
He's better than that...

He's healthier than that...

 

[brokenshoelace]

All that dropshotting was clearly a symptom of fatigue or a mental choke.

Or an attempt at problem-solving, the way any player would try to do when they feel they can't go toe-to-toe with someone firing rockets all day. People love the mental narratives around here but sometimes tennis is just about trying to make tactical adjustments based on what your opponent does. It doesn't always work.

 

[Kieran]

There's always a mental narrative in a slam final, though. It's the difference between a teacup and a saucer. Stan was mentally rigid yesterday, didn't back down once, which was awe-inspiring, and Novak attempting so many droppers might be a sign that he began to lose touch with his own game, was hasty and panicking, going for a the quick dramatic fix, but only looking desperate when he tried it...

 

[brokenshoelace]

There's always a mental narrative in a slam final, though. It's the difference between a teacup and a saucer. Stan was mentally rigid yesterday, didn't back down once, which was awe-inspiring, and Novak attempting so many droppers might be a sign that he began to lose touch with his own game, was hasty and panicking, going for a the quick dramatic fix, but only looking desperate when he tried it...

See, that's one thing. Desperation does not mean he choked, the way Federberg theorized (I won't even entertain the ludicrous fatigue claim. This is Novak Djokovic we're talking about). Yes, I agree, there was an air of desperation about Novak's drop shots but the alternative was to watch missiles fly by him rally after rally. Now, excessive drop shotting was an extreme measure, one I don't agree with, but if you're Novak, you probably felt you were running out of time especially since Stan's level just wasn't dropping.

His choice of tactical adjustment wasn't the best, but does anyone have any suggestions as to what he could have done? It's easy to speak in vague terms, but what specifically should he have done to alter the course of the match?

 

[Federberg]

^disagree if you must. But there you go again..."ludicrous", you always want to be adversarial don't you? :nono You really are something! You're telling me that that was the only solution to deal with Stan.. ok mate!

 

[Kieran]

There's always a mental narrative in a slam final, though. It's the difference between a teacup and a saucer. Stan was mentally rigid yesterday, didn't back down once, which was awe-inspiring, and Novak attempting so many droppers might be a sign that he began to lose touch with his own game, was hasty and panicking, going for a the quick dramatic fix, but only looking desperate when he tried it...

See, that's one thing. Desperation does not mean he choked, the way Federberg theorized (I won't even entertain the ludicrous fatigue claim. This is Novak Djokovic we're talking about). Yes, I agree, there was an air of desperation about Novak's drop shots but the alternative was to watch missiles fly by him rally after rally. Now, excessive drop shotting was an extreme measure, one I don't agree with, but if you're Novak, you probably felt you were running out of time especially since Stan's level just wasn't dropping.

His choice of tactical adjustment wasn't the best, but does anyone have any suggestions as to what he could have done? It's easy to speak in vague terms, but what specifically should he have done to alter the course of the match?

That's it, and the margins are small. He had break point early in the second, and at that stage it looked like a typical day at the office, that Novak would suddenly raise his game, not become less sure - and it looked like Stan might become discouraged, and not turn ape the way he did. Nole's first serve % was 76% in the first, then went down to the early sixties, late fifties, for the rest of the match.

Maybe he'll think he should have pursued Stan more aggressively while he had the momentum. As Tignor put it, "Djokovic looked constrained, more hopeful than aggressive. He didn’t fire himself up, rev the crowd, or try to take the match to his opponent until deep into the fourth set.."

But he also quickly said, "It wasn’t just the occasion that constrained Djokovic; his opponent had a big hand in keeping him on his heels." This is true too. I feel like Nole had the match on his racket going into set two, but in the early games, the mojo changed sides and he was looking second best from there in. Did he become more tentative, or did Stan bully him?

Or both?

Whatever it was, drop shots were a symptom of the predicament, not a cure...

 

[brokenshoelace]

^disagree if you must. But there you go again..."ludicrous", you always want to be adversarial don't you? :nono You really are something! You're telling me that that was the only solution to deal with Stan.. ok mate!

I said the fatigue claim is ludicrous. Not everything else. Yes, we're talking about an elite athlete who's currently the fittest man on tour, whose most memorable moments included some straight up marathons. So yes, theorizing that he was tired in a 4 set affair that wasn't particularly grueling has no basis whatsoever.

Also, did you miss the part where I said I didn't agree with the excessive drop shots? How does that mean they were the "only solution"?

PS: Save me the lectures please. If you take issue with the word "ludicrous," that one's on you buddy. I doubt any mod can help you with that one.

 

[Federberg]

^Why you think I would want mod's helping me escapes me. I'm merely pointing out that you continue to persist with that sort of attitude and what follows is on you Anyway.. I have work to do. I'm a bit tennis'd out to be honest!

 

[DarthFed]

There's always a mental narrative in a slam final, though. It's the difference between a teacup and a saucer. Stan was mentally rigid yesterday, didn't back down once, which was awe-inspiring, and Novak attempting so many droppers might be a sign that he began to lose touch with his own game, was hasty and panicking, going for a the quick dramatic fix, but only looking desperate when he tried it...

This. It just showed desperation as Novak clearly didn't believe in his chances in neutral rallies which is a testament to just how well Stan was playing.

 

[brokenshoelace]

There's always a mental narrative in a slam final, though. It's the difference between a teacup and a saucer. Stan was mentally rigid yesterday, didn't back down once, which was awe-inspiring, and Novak attempting so many droppers might be a sign that he began to lose touch with his own game, was hasty and panicking, going for a the quick dramatic fix, but only looking desperate when he tried it...

This. It just showed desperation as Novak clearly didn't believe in his chances in neutral rallies which is a testament to just how well Stan was playing.

100% co-signed, which again, goes back to being unable to strategically problem solve what Stan was doing, as opposed to "choking."

 

[Kirijax]

I didn't notice any choking by Djokovic. Just outstanding play by Wawrinka. There was absolutely nothing Novak could do but wait for the dropoff by Wawrinka, which never came.

 

[DarthFed]

There's always a mental narrative in a slam final, though. It's the difference between a teacup and a saucer. Stan was mentally rigid yesterday, didn't back down once, which was awe-inspiring, and Novak attempting so many droppers might be a sign that he began to lose touch with his own game, was hasty and panicking, going for a the quick dramatic fix, but only looking desperate when he tried it...

This. It just showed desperation as Novak clearly didn't believe in his chances in neutral rallies which is a testament to just how well Stan was playing.

100% co-signed, which again, goes back to being unable to strategically problem solve what Stan was doing, as opposed to "choking."

Yeah there was no choking from Nole yesterday. The only thing he'd point at is a better 1st serve % and maybe the forehand. Not that it was erratic I just don't think he hit it as well as normal, not the same pace and depth. Of course a lot of that goes back to the other side of the net.

 

[Kieran]

I doubt anyone thinks that Nole choked, but if we go back to Tignor's comment that he "looked constrained, more hopeful than aggressive. He didn’t fire himself up, rev the crowd, or try to take the match to his opponent until deep into the fourth set," we could probably agree that in the second set, just when he would be expected to hunt Stan down, and press home his advantage, his level dropped, while Stan became emboldened.

Is this "choking"? I wouldn't call it that, I'd say it was being more conservative than he needed to be. If it was a semi, I imagine he'd have been more aggressive. Stan rose then and seized the momentum, so it's a chicken and egg thingy. Stan's response to losing the first set was incredible.

But "choking" would be more like Novotna, or McEnroe in 1984, where he was dominating a player who he'd dominated for a long while, up two sets, up a break in the fourth - and he bottled it. Novak was actually scrapping quite hard out there, but the momentum swung against him.

The issue of the dropshots was to highlight just how lost he was in the face of the assault...