2014 Wimbledon Semi: Djokovic v Dimitrov

[Moxie]

^ Kiu is no Nadal fan hence no problem with Roger in a final and potentially bagging another slam

True enough, but you missed the reference, which was to Kiu picking Raonic in the other Semi, which disappointed Darth. It looks like Kiu is in favor of a Dimitrov v. Raonic final.

That'd be some crap final lol. Fair enough Nadal fans might like this scenario simply for the sake of the slam count but it'd be absolutely awful viewing. Btw, didn't miss it but Kiu picking Raonic to win because of his serve is a prediction and one many will agree on. Didn't see Kiu saying this was the most enjoyable potential final by any means though..

I was reporting what Kiu seemed to be gaming for, since Darth was inquiring. Stop assuming what I want, or other Nadal fans do. You may be one-note in your preferences, but it doesn't mean everyone else is. While I'd prefer that Roger not get #18, I do draw the line at Raonic in the final. :nono Even I'll only go so far. :laydownlaughing

 

[Front242]

I'm not one note in preferences, even if Federer makes the final he may lose that but just saying as a fan of tennis, Raonic in the final would be puke making viewing for a final. I appreciate the progress he's made and his serve is awesome but he's horrible watch. At least we agree on that!

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Grigor straight setted Andy, and I always thought Andy is the better grass player than Nole...but still, I cannot make Grigor the favorite in my head.

Nole in 5?

Andy is definitely more natural on grass, but I'm not sure if he is better in absolute terms. The match-up favors him when they play each other on grass, but other than Federer and maybe Del Potro I doubt there are a lot of Top 30 players who really prefer Novak to Andy as an opponent at Wimbledon.

As for the match, in my opinion it comes down to how Novak handles Grigor's serve and slice. If he does it well I see Novak winning rather routinely, if not I would expect a tough four or five set match that can go either way.

It is an important distinction. Andy has the advantage on grass in a matchup vs. Djokovic but that doesn't mean everyone wants to play Djokovic vs. Murray. Murray's problem usually is that he is naturally not aggressive enough. He has to come out of his comfort zone to really play attacking tennis and when the big servers and hitters are having a good day he has trouble. Nole has more to counteract the big hitters as he is plenty comfortable going toe to toe from the baseline.

In my personal opinion, if I was given the choice of facing top Murray or top Novak at Wimbledon, I would always pick Novak. I realize some might disagree with that.

If you would have to choose between both at their best on grass, the choice wouldn't matter for most players as they would lose clearly anyway. But I think based on the quarter final matches this year or Novak's match against Del Potro last year, where his backhand DTL was totally off and everything else apart from the serve wasn't that good either, you can make a case, that you need to play at a higher level to beat a far from his best-Novak, than a far from his best-Andy.

From the perspective of a Federer fan I can totally understand that facing Novak feels as the more comfortable option to playing Andy on grass, but for example Nadal would in my opinion prefer meeting Andy to Novak in a possible Wimbledon final. Apart from their head-to-head on grass I don't think there are any hard facts that point to Andy as the better player on the surface. Their results at Wimbledon are actually quite equal, but Andy's more suitable game style for and better movement on grass, as well as grass being regarded as Andy's best, but Novak's worst surface probably play a big role in Murray being widely perceived as superior on grass.

But it is really not a perception issue, because you yourself have very clearly explained why Andy is better on grass above in the bold parts. I think overall Nole is a better player than Andy. One of the reasons for that is his amazing movement. That advantage totally disappears on grass. It is not an issue of perception, it just is. Nole has always had issues with low slices to his backhand side. That issue is magnified many times over on the low bouncing grass. Andy does not have the same issue.
And Andy's 2 grass wins over Nole were straight forward matches and Nole has not gotten a set from Andy on this surface. That is not an issue of perception, it just is.

Now one can easily say , well, Nole just did not play up to his usual self in those matches with Andy, and my counter argument would be , well, yeah, and the surface being GRASS has something to do with Nole not playing up to his usual self.

At the end of the day , despite the results and other indicators, it is an opinion and mine is Andy is a better grass court player than Nole.

 

[Front242]

^ Likewise and many share this opinion.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

It's no question that on relative terms Andy is better because of the things I pointed out. But Novak being the better player overall makes it extremely close from an absolute point of view. I even agree that Andy's best is better than Novak's best on grass, as actually in my opinion their match at the Olympics came pretty close to both being at or near their best on it. But I think their average level is about the same.

And considering Andy regularly beats or at least troubles Novak on hard courts and in Rome 2011 even nearly defeated him on clay, despite Novak having significantly superior resumes on those surfaces, it seems like Andy generally has a slight advantage in how their styles match up.

I'm far away from claiming Novak is the better grass player, but my conclusion is that they are more or less equally good with Andy having a match-up advantage when they play each other, but also being the one easier to beat for the field when not playing well.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

It's no question that on relative terms Andy is better because of the things I pointed out. But Novak being the better player overall makes it extremely close from an absolute point of view. I even agree that Andy's best is better than Novak's best on grass, as actually in my opinion their match at the Olympics came pretty close to both being at or near their best on it. But I think their average level is about the same.

And considering Andy regularly beats or at least troubles Novak on hard courts and in Rome 2011 even nearly defeated him on clay, despite Novak having significantly superior resumes on those surfaces, it seems like Andy generally has a slight advantage in how their styles match up.

I'm far away from claiming Novak is the better grass player, but my conclusion is that they are more or less equally good with Andy having a match-up advantage when they play each other, but also being the one easier to beat for the field when not playing well.

I agree with pretty much all of this, especially the bold part, because Nole is much stronger mentally and he knows how to get out of sticky situations better than Andy, on any surface.

 

[crystalfire]

^ Kiu is no Nadal fan hence no problem with Roger in a final and potentially bagging another slam

True enough, but you missed the reference, which was to Kiu picking Raonic in the other Semi, which disappointed Darth. It looks like Kiu is in favor of a Dimitrov v. Raonic final.

That'd be some crap final lol. Fair enough Nadal fans might like this scenario simply for the sake of the slam count but it'd be absolutely awful viewing. Btw, didn't miss it but Kiu picking Raonic to win because of his serve is a prediction and one many will agree on. Didn't see Kiu saying this was the most enjoyable potential final by any means though..

yup thats what i was thinking. to be honest if it comes down to dimitrov vs raonic im not even gonna bother watching. dont really care who wins.

 

[Front242]

^ Yeah, might even do the same lol.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

It's no question that on relative terms Andy is better because of the things I pointed out. But Novak being the better player overall makes it extremely close from an absolute point of view. I even agree that Andy's best is better than Novak's best on grass, as actually in my opinion their match at the Olympics came pretty close to both being at or near their best on it. But I think their average level is about the same.

And considering Andy regularly beats or at least troubles Novak on hard courts and in Rome 2011 even nearly defeated him on clay, despite Novak having significantly superior resumes on those surfaces, it seems like Andy generally has a slight advantage in how their styles match up.

I'm far away from claiming Novak is the better grass player, but my conclusion is that they are more or less equally good with Andy having a match-up advantage when they play each other, but also being the one easier to beat for the field when not playing well.

I agree with pretty much all of this, especially the bold part, because Nole is much stronger mentally and he knows how to get out of sticky situations better than Andy, on any surface.

Also my impression is that Nole has more things to fall back on if something isn't working. He is more reliable in switching to a more offensive style if defensive play is made ineffective and better at displaying controlled aggression when missing the lines. Also he can often offset problems he has with one shot with the rest of his game, whereas Andy's game sometimes seems in danger of falling apart if the serve or the backhand aren't working.

 

[Moxie]

I'm not one note in preferences, even if Federer makes the final he may lose that but just saying as a fan of tennis, Raonic in the final would be puke making viewing for a final. I appreciate the progress he's made and his serve is awesome but he's horrible watch. At least we agree on that!

Yes, cool. But you can be a bit one-note. "As a fan of tennis" is a bit of a laugh, since there is no way ever, even if hell freezes over you would root for Nadal, but other than that, I'm sure you're all about what is best for tennis.

 

[Front242]

I'm not one note in preferences, even if Federer makes the final he may lose that but just saying as a fan of tennis, Raonic in the final would be puke making viewing for a final. I appreciate the progress he's made and his serve is awesome but he's horrible to watch. At least we agree on that!

Yes, cool. But you can be a bit one-note. "As a fan of tennis" is a bit of a laugh, since there is no way ever, even if hell freezes over you would root for Nadal, but other than that, I'm sure you're all about what is best for tennis.

Likewise for you and Federer

 

[Moxie]

I'm not one note in preferences, even if Federer makes the final he may lose that but just saying as a fan of tennis, Raonic in the final would be puke making viewing for a final. I appreciate the progress he's made and his serve is awesome but he's horrible to watch. At least we agree on that!

Yes, cool. But you can be a bit one-note. "As a fan of tennis" is a bit of a laugh, since there is no way ever, even if hell freezes over you would root for Nadal, but other than that, I'm sure you're all about what is best for tennis.

Likewise for you and Federer

No, that's where you're wrong. I often root for Federer. I like his game, I appreciate his movement on court, and, where he doesn't threaten Rafa, which is most of the time, I'm happy to see him win. You do not have the same generosity towards Nadal.

 

[Correspondent Kiu]

^ Kiu is no Nadal fan hence no problem with Roger in a final and potentially bagging another slam

I picked the Canadian over Roger!

I was rooting for Nadal right after his come-back but that was last year. He does NOT deserve my support this year.
:s

 

[Kieran]

One serious aspect of the order of play today is that Nole is playing first, which makes me happy: I'd hate for him to have the option of tanking the match if Roger is already in the final... :clap

 

[tented]

^ Speaking of Denisovich, I thought he's be around by now with Novak in the semis.

 

[Kieran]

He's waiting to see if Novak cashes in this option. But now that it's no longer really there, he might post later... :snigger

 

[tented]

Welcome to the live chat for the mens semifinals!

 

[tented]

I've opened the Live Chat.

Click on the green plus sign in the bottom left of your browser to open it.

 

[tented]

Any last minute thoughts or predictions?

 

[nehmeth]

That I may have a coronary if Novak plays passively?