2014 US Open Final: Nishikori vs. Cilic

[herios]

Who said open era began in 1968, open era begins now.

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

There is an interesting twist here. Currently there are 3 active players with 1 slam each: Wawrinka, Delpo and Cilic. Just imagine one of them clinches a second one, before Murray wins a third one, I would like to see what would be then the narrative.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Who said open era began in 1968, open era begins now.

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

How about the term "big three and a half men" (taking cue from US TV sitcom) instead of "big four".

 

[Moxie]

No problem with carillo. why does this feel the same as when tsonga won the rogers cup. cilic will have to back this up for me, even though he earned it.

Doesn't even feel like a changing of the guard. Feels like there is no guard.

I'm glad you're cool with Carillo, too. Cilic will have to back it up. Same as with Stan. We may have a period of one-slam-wonders mixed in with some old guard, until a new proper superstar or two arises. It's hard to picture either Stan or Marin as that.

Welcome to 2003...

Federer, Ferrero, Gaudio, agassi.

Actually, 2003 was Agassi, Ferrero, Federer, Roddick, but good choice of year. (Gaudio was 2004.)

 

[GameSetAndMath]

No problem with carillo. why does this feel the same as when tsonga won the rogers cup. cilic will have to back this up for me, even though he earned it.

Doesn't even feel like a changing of the guard. Feels like there is no guard.

Sure, Cilic needs to back it up. This going for the lines with 100 mph groundies on every
chance is not sustainable in the long run, in my opinion.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Let's all not forget that after the 2003, JC Ferrero's career was a joke. Let's not even talk about Gaudio.
Roddick never won again, although not for lack of trying. Out of the 2003 groups only Fed "backs it up".

Agassi was an old warrior and nothing more was expected.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

No problem with carillo. why does this feel the same as when tsonga won the rogers cup. cilic will have to back this up for me, even though he earned it.

Doesn't even feel like a changing of the guard. Feels like there is no guard.

Sure, Cilic needs to back it up. This going for the lines with 100 mph groundies on every
chance is not sustainable in the long run, in my opinion.

He will have a good indoor season...he always does...then reality will hit. Back to earth.

 

[Moxie]

Who said open era began in 1968, open era begins now.

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

There is an interesting twist here. Currently there are 3 active players with 1 slam each: Wawrinka, Delpo and Cilic. Just imagine one of them clinches a second one, before Murray wins a third one, I would like to see what would be then the narrative.

It wouldn't put them instantly in the same conversation as Murray, as they're far below him in other big titles won, and years at the top tier of the rankings, and challenging the other big 3. Remember, even Del Potro has yet to win a MS1000. It's not all about Slams.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

Who said open era began in 1968, open era begins now.

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

There is an interesting twist here. Currently there are 3 active players with 1 slam each: Wawrinka, Delpo and Cilic. Just imagine one of them clinches a second one, before Murray wins a third one, I would like to see what would be then the narrative.

It wouldn't put them instantly in the same conversation as Murray, as they're far below him in other big titles won, and years at the top tier of the rankings, and challenging the other big 3. Remember, even Del Potro has yet to win a MS1000. It's not all about Slams.

I think to even talk about anyone joining the elite group formerly known as the Big Four, you had better have years running of quarter after quarter, semi after semi, final after final, and numerous Masters 1000 deep runs. Otherwise it is laughable. It is SO easy to take for granted what these four players did.

We saw it from 1978-1981 with Borg, McEnroe, Connors, and Vilas/Gerulitis, where basically if they lost before the semis it was a shock, and they were hogging up the slams and leaving crumbs for the rest.

 

[Billie]

Who said open era began in 1968, open era begins now.

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

There is an interesting twist here. Currently there are 3 active players with 1 slam each: Wawrinka, Delpo and Cilic. Just imagine one of them clinches a second one, before Murray wins a third one, I would like to see what would be then the narrative.

I am pretty unimaginative so I will have to see it. Delpo won his lone major in 2009 and at the time I bet you thought he would be winning more, but that hasn't happened 5 years running. Wawrinka hasn't made a semi final of a major since his win. I may be wrong about Cilic, but he doesn't strike me as world beater tournament in and out and with this win, they will just pay more attention to him and he won't surprise players as he probably did here.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

No problem with carillo. why does this feel the same as when tsonga won the rogers cup. cilic will have to back this up for me, even though he earned it.

Doesn't even feel like a changing of the guard. Feels like there is no guard.

Back it up? Surely you jest. Stanimal ring a bell? While Cilic is no gaston Gaudio, he is not a legit top 5 player either.

Stan there was more of a build up two really tough matches against novak. At the USO semis, he was very close to beating Novak, plus at the Aussie he beat the 3 time defending champion in the quarters. Not a dig a cilic. I am saying how it feels, not a question of earning or deserved. You couldn't have paid me enough beforehand to saying cilic would have won. Just being honest.

To be fair, Cilic beat Bird at Wimby and then gave a good effort against Novak also.
So, it is not coming totally out of the blue, at least in retrospect.

 

[Fiero425]

No problem with carillo. why does this feel the same as when tsonga won the rogers cup. cilic will have to back this up for me, even though he earned it.

Doesn't even feel like a changing of the guard. Feels like there is no guard.

Back it up? Surely you jest. Stanimal ring a bell? While Cilic is no gaston Gaudio, he is not a legit top 5 player either.

Stan there was more of a build up two really tough matches against novak. At the USO semis, he was very close to beating Novak, plus at the Aussie he beat the 3 time defending champion in the quarters. Not a dig a cilic. I am saying how it feels, not a question of earning or deserved. You couldn't have paid me enough beforehand to saying cilic would have won. Just being honest.

To be fair, Cilic beat Bird at Wimby and then gave a good effort against Novak also.
So, it is not coming totally out of the blue, at least in retrospect.

Not at all; very "Del Potro-est!" Very impressive beat down in the SF and Final of a major! He was in the zone with his serve, groundstrokes, and head! "Congrats Marin!" Great showing by Kei!

 

[GameSetAndMath]

No problem with carillo. why does this feel the same as when tsonga won the rogers cup. cilic will have to back this up for me, even though he earned it.

Doesn't even feel like a changing of the guard. Feels like there is no guard.

Back it up? Surely you jest. Stanimal ring a bell? While Cilic is no gaston Gaudio, he is not a legit top 5 player either.

Stan there was more of a build up two really tough matches against novak. At the USO semis, he was very close to beating Novak, plus at the Aussie he beat the 3 time defending champion in the quarters. Not a dig a cilic. I am saying how it feels, not a question of earning or deserved. You couldn't have paid me enough beforehand to saying cilic would have won. Just being honest.

To be fair, Cilic beat Bird at Wimby and then gave a good effort against Novak also.
So, it is not coming totally out of the blue, at least in retrospect.

Not at all; very "Del Potro-est!" Very impressive beat down in the SF and Final of a major! He was in the zone with his serve, groundstrokes, and head! "Congrats Marin!" Great showing by Kei!

Actually, even Del Potro did not come out of nowhere. He won Washington DC and
then performed well in the Masters before clinching USO>

 

[Moxie]

Let's all not forget that after the 2003, JC Ferrero's career was a joke. Let's not even talk about Gaudio.
Roddick never won again, although not for lack of trying. Out of the 2003 groups only Fed "backs it up".

Agassi was an old warrior and nothing more was expected.

If you're replying to me, that's why I thought you'd picked a good example of a year. You just misplaced Gaudio, and forgot Roddick. It's not a onene, but a good recent illustration.

Here's another way of looking at it:

Of the last 39 men's singles major titles, 3 were won by other than The Big Four, i.e. by 7 men. Of the 39 previous to that (1995 Wimbledon - 2005 AO, if I counted right,) those titles were won by 17 different men. (Sampras, Becker, Kafelnikov, Krajicek, Kuerten, Rafter, Korda, Moya, Agassi, Safin, Ivanisovic, Hewitt, Johansson, Costa, Ferrero, Roddick, Gaudio.)

It seems like the next 39 are much more likely to change hands like the first group, than be dominated by a few, as in the 2nd group, if you ask me.

 

[Riotbeard]

Who said open era began in 1968, open era begins now.

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

How about the term "big three and a half men" (taking cue from US TV sitcom) instead of "big four".

Truth is that there is a big two, with a large crop of contenders.

 

[herios]

Who said open era began in 1968, open era begins now.

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

There is an interesting twist here. Currently there are 3 active players with 1 slam each: Wawrinka, Delpo and Cilic. Just imagine one of them clinches a second one, before Murray wins a third one, I would like to see what would be then the narrative.

I am pretty unimaginative so I will have to see it. Delpo won his lone major in 2009 and at the time I bet you thought he would be winning more, but that hasn't happened 5 years running. Wawrinka hasn't made a semi final of a major since his win. I may be wrong about Cilic, but he doesn't strike me as world beater tournament in and out and with this win, they will just pay more attention to him and he won't surprise players as he probably did here.

Be more imaginative

Delpo will have a second wind in his career. Also Cilic is still younger than any of the other slam holder (same age like Delpo) and he does not strike me as someone to have those form swings like Stan has.
Also, his game is less borderline technically, he has a very improved serve and FH. These unlikely to go away. If the off court distractions which will come along with the territory (media, sponsors, etc) will not play havoc with his mind, he will be very dangerous going forward. He always was a good indoor player, he might do very well the next 2 months.

 

[Moxie]

Back it up? Surely you jest. Stanimal ring a bell? While Cilic is no gaston Gaudio, he is not a legit top 5 player either.

Stan there was more of a build up two really tough matches against novak. At the USO semis, he was very close to beating Novak, plus at the Aussie he beat the 3 time defending champion in the quarters. Not a dig a cilic. I am saying how it feels, not a question of earning or deserved. You couldn't have paid me enough beforehand to saying cilic would have won. Just being honest.

To be fair, Cilic beat Bird at Wimby and then gave a good effort against Novak also.
So, it is not coming totally out of the blue, at least in retrospect.

Not at all; very "Del Potro-est!" Very impressive beat down in the SF and Final of a major! He was in the zone with his serve, groundstrokes, and head! "Congrats Marin!" Great showing by Kei!

Actually, even Del Potro did not come out of nowhere. He won Washington DC and
then performed well in the Masters before clinching USO>

Del Potro came the least out of "nowhere." He was picked to do well, coming up, and he had a really great 2009. He just got derailed. (Interestingly, Cilic was coming up at the same time. Does anyone else remember them being referred to as "The Twin Towers?" It has taken this long for Cilic to realize his potential.

 

[Fiero425]

Who said open era began in 1968, open era begins now.

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

There is an interesting twist here. Currently there are 3 active players with 1 slam each: Wawrinka, Delpo and Cilic. Just imagine one of them clinches a second one, before Murray wins a third one, I would like to see what would be then the narrative.

I am pretty unimaginative so I will have to see it. Delpo won his lone major in 2009 and at the time I bet you thought he would be winning more, but that hasn't happened 5 years running. Wawrinka hasn't made a semi final of a major since his win. I may be wrong about Cilic, but he doesn't strike me as world beater tournament in and out and with this win, they will just pay more attention to him and he won't surprise players as he probably did here.

Be more imaginative

Delpo will have a second wind in his career. Also Cilic is still younger than any of the other slam holder (same age like Delpo) and he does not strike me as someone to have those form swings like Stan has.
Also, his game is less borderline technically, he has a very improved serve and FH. These unlikely to go away. If the off court distractions which will come along with the territory (media, sponsors, etc) will not play havoc with his mind, he will be very dangerous going forward. He always was a good indoor player, he might do very well the next 2 months.

Sorry we've been saying, writing, and hearing "DelPo will be back" for years! He's done as far as I'm concerned! The way he slaps at the ball has to be terribly debilitating to that wrist; hitting it again and again! Another surgery? How long this time for rehab?

 

[herios]

Back it up? Surely you jest. Stanimal ring a bell? While Cilic is no gaston Gaudio, he is not a legit top 5 player either.

Stan there was more of a build up two really tough matches against novak. At the USO semis, he was very close to beating Novak, plus at the Aussie he beat the 3 time defending champion in the quarters. Not a dig a cilic. I am saying how it feels, not a question of earning or deserved. You couldn't have paid me enough beforehand to saying cilic would have won. Just being honest.

To be fair, Cilic beat Bird at Wimby and then gave a good effort against Novak also.
So, it is not coming totally out of the blue, at least in retrospect.

Not at all; very "Del Potro-est!" Very impressive beat down in the SF and Final of a major! He was in the zone with his serve, groundstrokes, and head! "Congrats Marin!" Great showing by Kei!

Actually, even Del Potro did not come out of nowhere. He won Washington DC and
then performed well in the Masters before clinching USO>

That is true, Delpo was a legit top 10 player when he won the USO, so was Wawrinka (he was in the WTF just before the AO). In comparison, Marin's win came really out of nowhere, when was the last time a guy guy raned outside of the top 10 won a slam? Was it Gaudio?

 

[herios]

Stan there was more of a build up two really tough matches against novak. At the USO semis, he was very close to beating Novak, plus at the Aussie he beat the 3 time defending champion in the quarters. Not a dig a cilic. I am saying how it feels, not a question of earning or deserved. You couldn't have paid me enough beforehand to saying cilic would have won. Just being honest.

To be fair, Cilic beat Bird at Wimby and then gave a good effort against Novak also.
So, it is not coming totally out of the blue, at least in retrospect.

Not at all; very "Del Potro-est!" Very impressive beat down in the SF and Final of a major! He was in the zone with his serve, groundstrokes, and head! "Congrats Marin!" Great showing by Kei!

Actually, even Del Potro did not come out of nowhere. He won Washington DC and
then performed well in the Masters before clinching USO>

Del Potro came the least out of "nowhere." He was picked to do well, coming up, and he had a really great 2009. He just got derailed. (Interestingly, Cilic was coming up at the same time. Does anyone else remember them being referred to as "The Twin Towers?" It has taken this long for Cilic to realize his potential.

I think you are mixing things up. Yes, Delpo and Cilic were coming up together and until this USO win his best result was his 2009 Beijing title for Marin, he also made the SF at the AO after that, then he fell and went into they grey zone.
But they were not called the "twin towers" , those were Isner and Querrey.

 

[herios]

It's about time; 4 different winners of the majors and not the 4 we normally get! I guess I can hold off calling the ATP gutless with an expansion of the elite! They need to stop referencing Murray in that group! He's fallen way back! Something's missing! He's had moments, but that's about it! :nono uzzled :angel:

There is an interesting twist here. Currently there are 3 active players with 1 slam each: Wawrinka, Delpo and Cilic. Just imagine one of them clinches a second one, before Murray wins a third one, I would like to see what would be then the narrative.

I am pretty unimaginative so I will have to see it. Delpo won his lone major in 2009 and at the time I bet you thought he would be winning more, but that hasn't happened 5 years running. Wawrinka hasn't made a semi final of a major since his win. I may be wrong about Cilic, but he doesn't strike me as world beater tournament in and out and with this win, they will just pay more attention to him and he won't surprise players as he probably did here.

Be more imaginative

Delpo will have a second wind in his career. Also Cilic is still younger than any of the other slam holder (same age like Delpo) and he does not strike me as someone to have those form swings like Stan has.
Also, his game is less borderline technically, he has a very improved serve and FH. These unlikely to go away. If the off court distractions which will come along with the territory (media, sponsors, etc) will not play havoc with his mind, he will be very dangerous going forward. He always was a good indoor player, he might do very well the next 2 months.

Sorry we've been saying, writing, and hearing "DelPo will be back" for years! He's done as far as I'm concerned! The way he slaps at the ball has to be terribly debilitating to that wrist; hitting it again and again! Another surgery? How long this time for rehab?

I am marking this post and will bring it back up in due time. I am convinced he is not done.