2014 Aussie Open SF: Fedal Volume 33

[Federberg]

I honestly couldn't care less about the h2h at this stage given how many were on clay as there's no shame losing to him on clay given practically everyone else does too. What annoys me is the poor matches he plays to bend over and give Nadal another slam. He should have more pride and try harder as he's clearly a proud man. There was a ton at stake today and he played well below par even by recent slam matches against Nadal. Not even winning a set was the icing on the out of date stale cake.

They've now played 33 matches. 15 (nearly half) have been on a hard court, and Rafa has won 9 -- nearly 2/3.

Also, since they have played 15 times on a hard court, and 3 times on grass, that means they've played 15 times on clay -- the same number of times on hards.

It's high time Fed fans quit acting like 99% of their matches have been played on clay. Less than half, actually, and Rafa has a 9-6 lead on hard courts.

That's a fair point. To be honest as much as his movement is vastly improved from last year... he's simply not as quick around the court as in his heyday. No matter what the "Roger's a better player than ever crowd" try to serve up. For that reason alone he's not going to be able to win against Rafa on any surface unless he zones it. He only seems to be able to play that type of match indoors in recent years...

 

[Front242]

Never said 99% were played on clay but how many wins does Roger have against him out of those 15 on clay? Or anyone for that matter. But that's why the h2h is so skewed. It's Roger's fault at the end of the day as not only some of those on clay but the other losses in slams were winnable too.

 

[Federberg]

Doesn't matter now... The days of a contest are over. I can't believe I even bought the idea that there was a chance today. It's almost embarrassing!

 

[Front242]

Doesn't matter now... The days of a contest are over. I can't believe I even bought the idea that there was a chance today. It's almost embarrassing!

I never thought there was but I at least gave him a good chance of some pride and at least earning a set. His failure to even do that was embarrassing given the magnitude of today's match.

 

[shawnbm]

The days of Roger beating Rafa on any surface are likely gone, if not already gone. Rafa is the same age Fed was in 2009 at this time--think about that. Roger was still the best if not close second best to Nadal at that time. Rafa had just gotten over the hump with Fed at 2008 SW19 and what likely was even bigger in retrospect--the five set win in Melbourne. Roger has slowly declined since then while Nadal has come into his own and hit prime Rafa in 2010-2013 (even though he lost to Nole a lot in 2011). The reality is one could argue Roger was in his prime from 2003-2009, whilst Rafa has been that since SW19 in 2008 to now, meaning Rafa has actually equalled Roger in terms of how many years they have been perceived by all as the top man.

I am sure I won't be the first to note that since Rafa first won the FO in 2005 up through his lodging a place in the final today, Rafa has now appeared in 19 major finals, wining 13 (perhaps 14 in a day?). In that exact same period of time, Roger has appeared in 20 major finals and won 13 of them. Pretty level, no?

 

[the AntiPusher]

I honestly couldn't care less about the h2h at this stage given how many were on clay as there's no shame losing to him on clay given practically everyone else does too. What annoys me is the poor matches he plays to bend over and give Nadal another slam. He should have more pride and try harder as he's clearly a proud man. There was a ton at stake today and he played well below par even by recent slam matches against Nadal. Not even winning a set was the icing on the out of date stale cake.

They've now played 33 matches. 15 (nearly half) have been on a hard court, and Rafa has won 9 -- nearly 2/3.

Also, since they have played 15 times on a hard court, and 3 times on grass, that means they've played 15 times on clay -- the same number of times on hards.

It's high time Fed fans quit acting like 99% of their matches have been played on clay. Less than half, actually, and Rafa has a 9-6 lead on hard courts.

Amen, Brotha:clap

 

[SF Nadalite]

By the way, congrats to Isabelle, the only person that got the score right.

clap:clap

I was thinking that the forum-collective definitely deserved some ribbing for only ONE person getting it right (and the leading Murray fan).

Rafa's level of play last night was stellar...the backhand crosscourts were amazing - and coming after one of his worst matches in years.

I cannot but think that he will be in great form for the final.

 

[lindseywagners]

Losing that first set at RG 2011 after being up 5-2 was one of the worst memories I have of Fed starting amazing and completely outplaying Nadal only to resort to his usual clown self against him. Abysmal.

Here's one more similar example: I had forgotten that at Wimbledon in '08 Fed was up 4-1 in the second set and lost 6-4.

 

[Front242]

Losing that first set at RG 2011 after being up 5-2 was one of the worst memories I have of Fed starting amazing and completely outplaying Nadal only to resort to his usual clown self against him. Abysmal.

Here's one more similar example: I had forgotten that at Wimbledon in '08 Fed was up 4-1 in the second set and lost 6-4.

Sadly he's made a career out of screw ups like that. Monte Carlo '08 (poor quality video sorry). Fed was up 4-3 first set and on serve and lost serve to get back to 4-4. Lost that set 7-5. Then the 2nd set was a total embarrassment. Fed was up 4-0 and also lost it 7-5. Another match he really could have won. No excusing those kind of losses.

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s5FsNO3tfBw[/video]

 

[DarthFed]

Losing that first set at RG 2011 after being up 5-2 was one of the worst memories I have of Fed starting amazing and completely outplaying Nadal only to resort to his usual clown self against him. Abysmal.

Here's one more similar example: I had forgotten that at Wimbledon in '08 Fed was up 4-1 in the second set and lost 6-4.

Lucky for you to have forgotten that. That collapse is one of the main reasons it gets kind of funny when people praise Roger's play/effort that match. Truth be told that just happens to be one of the only slam matches vs. Rafa that he didn't completely wet the bed. Not that it was a great performance by any means.

 

[Moxie]

Losing that first set at RG 2011 after being up 5-2 was one of the worst memories I have of Fed starting amazing and completely outplaying Nadal only to resort to his usual clown self against him. Abysmal.

Here's one more similar example: I had forgotten that at Wimbledon in '08 Fed was up 4-1 in the second set and lost 6-4.

Lucky for you to have forgotten that. That collapse is one of the main reasons it gets kind of funny when people praise Roger's play/effort that match. Truth be told that just happens to be one of the only slam matches vs. Rafa that he didn't completely wet the bed. Not that it was a great performance by any means.

4-1 is one break. Yes, Roger lost focus, but it's not impossible to recover from 4-1, even if you aren't Rafael Nadal playing Roger Federer. (Ask Andy Murray about the Wimbledon final last year.) Roger pulled out a lot of stops in that match, and it was a great match, even though you are loathe to think so.

I'm not interested in rubbing salt into a wound, or completely disrupting this pity-party, but there's been a lot of going over old matches that Roger "should" have won against Nadal. It does have to be acknowledged that there was another player in those matches. If Roger could have won more of them, he would have. It's rather unfair to Nadal's talents to complain of Federer's failings. I know this is a circular argument, and one that will likely go on forever. However, the number of times that Nadal has found his way around Federer does speak to more than just Roger blowing it. Roger is one of the all-time greats. If Rafa has beaten him 23 times, he must have had more going on than just waiting for the error.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Wow. Couldn't even get a set. Every single time I think fed has a chance against rafa I'm always disappointed. That's it I'm done. I doubt fed will ever beat him again. I feel like rafa can play with one hand and still manage to win. This is just ridiculous. Even dimitrov and nishikori played him tough. Ughhhh

His form leading up to today was definitely good enough to manage at least a set so yeah that was utterly disappointing. In fairness though, Rafa was garbage against Nishikori and Dimitrov and clearly played his best match of the tournament today. The amount of shanks and DFs against Dimitrov was very high by Nadal's standard and it seems the different bandage they used today helped him a lot as his play didn't appear affected at all unlike prior matches.

I think Dimitrov's shotmaking and power had more to do with Nadal's errors than the bandage did.

What about the service speed? Was it due to Dimitrov's otherworldly returning?

Nadal's come up against for better players, playing far better tennis, and hitting the ball harder than Dimitrov without ever making nearly that many errors.

 

[DarthFed]

Losing that first set at RG 2011 after being up 5-2 was one of the worst memories I have of Fed starting amazing and completely outplaying Nadal only to resort to his usual clown self against him. Abysmal.

Here's one more similar example: I had forgotten that at Wimbledon in '08 Fed was up 4-1 in the second set and lost 6-4.

Lucky for you to have forgotten that. That collapse is one of the main reasons it gets kind of funny when people praise Roger's play/effort that match. Truth be told that just happens to be one of the only slam matches vs. Rafa that he didn't completely wet the bed. Not that it was a great performance by any means.

4-1 is one break. Yes, Roger lost focus, but it's not impossible to recover from 4-1, even if you aren't Rafael Nadal playing Roger Federer. (Ask Andy Murray about the Wimbledon final last year.) Roger pulled out a lot of stops in that match, and it was a great match, even though you are loathe to think so.

I'm not interested in rubbing salt into a wound, or completely disrupting this pity-party, but there's been a lot of going over old matches that Roger "should" have won against Nadal. It does have to be acknowledged that there was another player in those matches. If Roger could have won more of them, he would have. It's rather unfair to Nadal's talents to complain of Federer's failings. I know this is a circular argument, and one that will likely go on forever. However, the number of times that Nadal has found his way around Federer does speak to more than just Roger blowing it. Roger is one of the all-time greats. If Rafa has beaten him 23 times, he must have had more going on than just waiting for the error.

4-1 lead on grass turning into 4-6 is pathetic even if he was playing God. Let's remember that all Roger accomplished that match is winning 2 tiebreak sets on grass vs. Rafa, a guy who hadn't done anything on grass up to that point.

Perhaps we should ask the other 9 players who have won 2 straight sets against Rafa at Wimbledon how amazing the feat is... We can take our pick between the following: Mueller, Kendricks, Soderling, Youzhny, Haase, Petz, Djokovic, Rosol, and Darcis.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

all the poasts from the nadal-Federer live chat are still missing..?????.

 

[brokenshoelace]

4-1 lead on grass turning into 4-6 is pathetic even if he was playing God. Let's remember that all Roger accomplished that match is winning 2 tiebreak sets on grass vs. Rafa, a guy who hadn't done anything on grass up to that point.

Holy mother of hyperbole. The 4-1 lead you're talking about was a ONE BREAK LEAD. So it's hardly preposterous to be broken back.

Secondly, the Nadal who "hadn't done anything on grass up to that point" had already gotten two Wimbledon finals (which included pushing Federer to five sets the previous), and won Queens just a few weeks earlier before the match in question.

I understand why Fed fans have such high standards. The man you root for has set unprecedented standards. And I like you Darth, I really do, but these arguments are absolutely ridiculous.

Why don't you think it was embarrassing for Nadal to lose to Djokovic at the 2011 Wimbledon final then, since Novak "hadn't done anything on grass" back then? This logic is baffling.

 

[DarthFed]

4-1 lead on grass turning into 4-6 is pathetic even if he was playing God. Let's remember that all Roger accomplished that match is winning 2 tiebreak sets on grass vs. Rafa, a guy who hadn't done anything on grass up to that point.

Holy mother of hyperbole. The 4-1 lead you're talking about was a ONE BREAK LEAD. So it's hardly preposterous to be broken back.

Secondly, the Nadal who "hadn't done anything on grass up to that point" had already gotten two Wimbledon finals (which included pushing Federer to five sets the previous), and won Queens just a few weeks earlier before the match in question.

I understand why Fed fans have such high standards. The man you root for has set unprecedented standards. And I like you Darth, I really do, but these arguments are absolutely ridiculous.

Why don't you think it was embarrassing for Nadal to lose to Djokovic at the 2011 Wimbledon final then, since Novak "hadn't done anything on grass" back then? This logic is baffling.

A one break lead in what figured, and ended up being, a do or die set. Seriously are you trying to argue that a guy with Roger's serve and grass game "should" be losing 5 games on the trot?

Rafa won Queens...stop the presses. As for the whole "Rafa was getting closer argument" we could say the same for Nole at RG, hell we could say the same for Roger at 2011 RG compared to 2008 RG. Surely this automatically means that they will do better next time right?

When did I say Rafa losing at Wimbledon to Djokovic wasn't embarrassing? A true competitor is embarrassed every time he fails.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Rafa won Queens...stop the presses. As for the whole "Rafa was getting closer argument" we could say the same for Nole at RG, hell we could say the same for Roger at 2011 RG compared to 2008 RG. Surely this automatically means that they will do better next time right?

No, but in the event they do, it's hardly an embarrassment, especially with the benefit of hindsight. In hindsight, you know that Nadal is actually pretty good on grass, and made 5 finals in a row. Clearly, it's hardly a disaster. You talk about that loss as being embarrassing way more than you talk about his loss to Berdych at Wimbledon being embarrassing. It's odd.

 

[DarthFed]

Rafa won Queens...stop the presses. As for the whole "Rafa was getting closer argument" we could say the same for Nole at RG, hell we could say the same for Roger at 2011 RG compared to 2008 RG. Surely this automatically means that they will do better next time right?

No, but in the event they do, it's hardly an embarrassment, especially with the benefit of hindsight. In hindsight, you know that Nadal is actually pretty good on grass, and made 5 finals in a row. Clearly, it's hardly a disaster. You talk about that loss as being embarrassing way more than you talk about his loss to Berdych at Wimbledon being embarrassing. It's odd.

Because that loss had far more at stake than the 2010 QF, not to mention since it is Fed-Rafa it gets brought up a lot. Of course any loss to Berdych, especially at a slam, is God awful.

 

[Moxie]

all the poasts from the nadal-Federer live chat are still missing..?????.

Britbox, our guru for incorporating such things, is on a bit of a walkabout with family. Whatever pithiness any of us came up with in the middle of the night is still yet possible to be preserved for posterity. Have a little patience.
:chillout:

(No offense with the emoticon, JLLB. I just hardly ever get to use that one, and I figured you, of all people, would approve.) :snigger

 

[fedfan]

There is no pressure on Rafa to serve MUCH better, just be tactically aware of the situation and utilize the surprise "big" serve that he always find in these matches. Rafa will slide the first serve to Roger's backhand at least 80% of the time with perhaps some variation on the deuce court. In the last few years, Rafa's backhand has done a lot of damage to Roger's forehand and the usual CC pattern between 1HBH and Rafa's forehand it's overblown.....at least outside of clay.

Roger has to serve above 65% first serve but they don't have to be big....just accurate in the box. Anything around the 60% range will translate to painful running and at this stage, Roger can't afford to defend much against Rafa.

If Rafa can bring up his level to his average performance for GS SF he takes this; but another day like the one he had against Grigor......Roger has a good chance. It has to be in 4 or 3 and he has to take the first set.

Hey Mr HU , should we be concerned about Rafa's blister on the inside of his hand because it concerns me especailly going against Federer, just cant afford a slip up here to this player. All the pressure is on Rafa, Roger has been playing with house money since he won number 15, IMO.

Roger has never been playing with house money. Great athletes must think for the future and keep racking up the accomplishments. Roger's career is outstanding now but if Rafa hits 18 his career drops to just "good". Fed needs to hit 19, less than that and I think he underachieved. I kind of think that anyways as 3-7 in 5 setters in semis and finals shows. And Rafa is easily hitting 17 too, especially if he wins this. Huge match for Roger's resume.

wut?

Darth, you're an outstanding poster, but this notion is ridiculous. Granted Fed is arguably most the talented player to yield a racket, but his current slam record speaks for itself regardless of what Nadal ends up with.

The rest is gravy and has been that way since #15 IMO.

Personally, I'm tired of worrying about being eclipsed but have learned to appreciate witnessing the two best that's played the game in the same era.

We are blessed.