2014 Aussie Open QF: Djokovic vs. Wawrinka

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Goldenboy

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Broken_Shoelace said:
Riotbeard said:
I think Serve and Volley was clearly the right decision. He got a sitter, and he missed it. No excuse for that. The idea that he should have let that ball float into a solid deep return is absurd.

It would have been absurd if the return was actually going to be solid and deep. But that clearly isn't the case. The ball would have been short and high bouncing. If this had been Federer, I'd say S & V is the right play. But when you're generally uncomfortable at the net, and don't serve and volley once the entire match, you don't do it on match point because then serving and volleying feels alien.

I agree with you. He must have done it instinctively out of nerves. Kind of like when Rafa served and volleyed when serving for the Wimbledon 2008 title.

He made it, so everyone sung his praises. Can only think of what people would say if he had missed and then been broken.
 

the AntiPusher

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Broken_Shoelace said:
Riotbeard said:
I think Serve and Volley was clearly the right decision. He got a sitter, and he missed it. No excuse for that. The idea that he should have let that ball float into a solid deep return is absurd.

It would have been absurd if the return was actually going to be solid and deep. But that clearly isn't the case. The ball would have been short and high bouncing. If this had been Federer, I'd say S & V is the right play. But when you're generally uncomfortable at the net, and don't serve and volley once the entire match, you don't do it on match point because then serving and volleying feels alien.

Maybe he actaully envisoned himself as Boris when he tried the S & V..
 

brokenshoelace

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the AntiPusher said:
Broken_Shoelace said:
Riotbeard said:
I think Serve and Volley was clearly the right decision. He got a sitter, and he missed it. No excuse for that. The idea that he should have let that ball float into a solid deep return is absurd.

It would have been absurd if the return was actually going to be solid and deep. But that clearly isn't the case. The ball would have been short and high bouncing. If this had been Federer, I'd say S & V is the right play. But when you're generally uncomfortable at the net, and don't serve and volley once the entire match, you don't do it on match point because then serving and volleying feels alien.

Maybe he actaully envisoned himself as Boris when he tried the S & V..

Then he probably should have done a lap of honor.
 

Goldenboy

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I just watched a highlight reel and I feel I can actually comment on the match now without being affected by the drama and the tension.

Novak's main issue in the slams during the last couple of years is that he expects too much of himself. Everytime he loses an important point (or especially a set), he gets angry and very down on himself, and that carries over to the next point(s) as well. In the first game of the third set, he held but after holding he seemed to berate himself quite a bit.

When he wins, he celebrates but he has this righteous anger as if that is the bare minimum he expects and its nothing special. Putting that sort of mental pressure on yourself has to be draining. Winning cannot be a chore or a duty.

To be fair, all the great champions get annoyed and show frustration after losing points, but Rafa and Roger don't shout at themselves everytime the opponent hits a winner (at least not in every match they play).

This in my opinion is something Djokovic did not do in 2011, when he would accept opponent winners and his own bad points and mistakes and just carry on playing. He seems to be a little too intense on court nowadays. I still remember the 4th set of the USO 2013 final when he literally looked crushed after each point he lost.

No one is going to regularly win slams without dropping sets or having tough matches along the way. And getting angry with yourself for dropping one set increases the pressure, which then leads to further nerves and poor play. I felt Stan's best patch of the match was the second set, which he was able to take with his aggressive play. After that, he played well, but he needed Novak to be off the boil in the 3rd.

Just my opinion though.
 

Denis

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Mastoor said:
DarthFed said:
Nole looks to be in good form and won't be caught off guard by Stan unlike last year. It will go 4 at most.

Where did you see that good form of Nole's? In his inability to win rallies against Fognini in any other way but to wait for Fog's error after 20 some shots in the rally? Or in inability to convert break points unless Fognini commits double-fault?

I wish I look at the world through your glasses though.

Credits to Mastoor for seeing this coming by the way.

The no 1 ranking seems completely out of reach for a considerable amount of time. But plenty of time to regroup and get things working for the French. I hope Nole will have a good showing there.
 

imjimmy

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Broken_Shoelace said:
Riotbeard said:
I think Serve and Volley was clearly the right decision. He got a sitter, and he missed it. No excuse for that. The idea that he should have let that ball float into a solid deep return is absurd.

It would have been absurd if the return was actually going to be solid and deep. But that wasn't the case. The ball would have been short and high bouncing. If this had been Federer, I'd say S & V is the right play. But when you're generally uncomfortable at the net, and don't serve and volley once the entire match, you don't do it on match point because then serving and volleying feels alien.

While S-V on MP seems reckless, isn't this what Djokovic does often in the past? Remember the legendary hail Mary forehand winner against Federer at MP in the UsOpen ? Instead of being more circumspect on MP, Djokovic becomes more aggressive and goes for the unconventional. He had so many such matches in 2011 and 2012 where he took chances and they all worked out. Had he made the S-V, saved MP and somehow pulled off the match, people would have called him a genius. He took his chance and this time it didn't work. No fault in that. Hindsight is 20:20.

Djokovic can hold his head high at a very solid effort. You can't win them all. As always he was a good loser. This might make him even more determined for the French, and this might be the year that Rafa finally succumbs..
 

Riotbeard

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Denisovich said:
Mastoor said:
DarthFed said:
Nole looks to be in good form and won't be caught off guard by Stan unlike last year. It will go 4 at most.

Where did you see that good form of Nole's? In his inability to win rallies against Fognini in any other way but to wait for Fog's error after 20 some shots in the rally? Or in inability to convert break points unless Fognini commits double-fault?

I wish I look at the world through your glasses though.

Credits to Mastoor for seeing this coming by the way.

The no 1 ranking seems completely out of reach for a considerable amount of time. But plenty of time to regroup and get things working for the French. I hope Nole will have a good showing there.

Yes hopefully this is the kick in the butt he needs. I thought the USO had done it.
 

Denis

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Riotbeard said:
Denisovich said:
Mastoor said:
DarthFed said:
Nole looks to be in good form and won't be caught off guard by Stan unlike last year. It will go 4 at most.

Where did you see that good form of Nole's? In his inability to win rallies against Fognini in any other way but to wait for Fog's error after 20 some shots in the rally? Or in inability to convert break points unless Fognini commits double-fault?

I wish I look at the world through your glasses though.

Credits to Mastoor for seeing this coming by the way.

The no 1 ranking seems completely out of reach for a considerable amount of time. But plenty of time to regroup and get things working for the French. I hope Nole will have a good showing there.

Yes hopefully this is the kick in the butt he needs. I thought the USO had done it.

Im not sure its a kick in the but. Maybe he just needs to sit down, regroup and see what he can take from this match improvement wise.
 

Correspondent Kiu

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201401210707256454095_o.jpg


after this shocker, it feels a little like WTA around here.
 

Correspondent Kiu

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It's snowing heavily in DC, I am home today.
I am camped here today. Looking forward to all the matches.
Just got done voting all matches, I even picked the super bowl winner.
:)
 

nehmeth

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Kiu said:
It's snowing heavily in DC, I am home today.
I am camped here today. Looking forward to all the matches.
Just got done voting all matches, I even picked the super bowl winner.
:)

Snowing here too; was supposed to travel today - not happening.

Still need to figure out who I'm picking for the Super Bowl. :huh:
 

the AntiPusher

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Broken_Shoelace said:
the AntiPusher said:
Broken_Shoelace said:
Riotbeard said:
I think Serve and Volley was clearly the right decision. He got a sitter, and he missed it. No excuse for that. The idea that he should have let that ball float into a solid deep return is absurd.

It would have been absurd if the return was actually going to be solid and deep. But that clearly isn't the case. The ball would have been short and high bouncing. If this had been Federer, I'd say S & V is the right play. But when you're generally uncomfortable at the net, and don't serve and volley once the entire match, you don't do it on match point because then serving and volleying feels alien.

Maybe he actaully envisoned himself as Boris when he tried the S & V..

Then he probably should have done a lap of honor.

:laydownlaughing
 

brokenshoelace

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imjimmy said:
Broken_Shoelace said:
Riotbeard said:
I think Serve and Volley was clearly the right decision. He got a sitter, and he missed it. No excuse for that. The idea that he should have let that ball float into a solid deep return is absurd.

It would have been absurd if the return was actually going to be solid and deep. But that wasn't the case. The ball would have been short and high bouncing. If this had been Federer, I'd say S & V is the right play. But when you're generally uncomfortable at the net, and don't serve and volley once the entire match, you don't do it on match point because then serving and volleying feels alien.

While S-V on MP seems reckless, isn't this what Djokovic does often in the past? Remember the legendary hail Mary forehand winner against Federer at MP in the UsOpen ? Instead of being more circumspect on MP, Djokovic becomes more aggressive and goes for the unconventional. He had so many such matches in 2011 and 2012 where he took chances and they all worked out. Had he made the S-V, saved MP and somehow pulled off the match, people would have called him a genius. He took his chance and this time it didn't work. No fault in that. Hindsight is 20:20.

Djokovic can hold his head high at a very solid effort. You can't win them all. As always he was a good loser. This might make him even more determined for the French, and this might be the year that Rafa finally succumbs..

"Had he made the S-V, saved MP and somehow pulled off the match, people would have called him a genius. He took his chance and this time it didn't work. No fault in that. Hindsight is 20:20."

That was literally what I said in my first post about the topic in this thread (I don't fault you for missing it since there's like 101396 posts).

However, I do feel there's a difference between hitting a super aggressive return or a gigantic forehand, and doing S & V if you're Djokovic. Yes, the actual volley he missed, was a much, MUCH easier shot than say, the forehands he saved MP's with against Fed at the US Open in 2010 and 2011. However, serving and volleying is just not Djokovic's forte, while ground strokes are. So while the degree of difficulty was smaller, the comfort zone is completely different. If you don't S & V all match, it's probably not a good idea to do it on match point. Yes, if he made it we would have praised him for it. But you're making it sound like he didn't make it by chance or bad luck. It's not like he hit a tough shot that missed by an inch. He had a wide open court for a put away volley and missed... How is there "no fault" in that? I understand that these things happen, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get criticized when they do... If you don't want to criticize his choice to S & V, then at least you have to criticize the garbage put away volley in terms of awful execution.
 

Tennis Miller

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Kiu said:
It's snowing heavily in DC, I am home today.
I am camped here today. Looking forward to all the matches.
Just got done voting all matches, I even picked the super bowl winner.
:)

I'm about to go outside and shovel here just outside DC in VA!

Cheers

TM
 

Moxie

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Tennis Miller said:
Kiu said:
It's snowing heavily in DC, I am home today.
I am camped here today. Looking forward to all the matches.
Just got done voting all matches, I even picked the super bowl winner.
:)

I'm about to go outside and shovel here just outside DC in VA!

Cheers

TM

It's snowing buckets here! No one told me this was coming. I have to go out and forage for supplies.
 

imjimmy

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Moxie629 said:
Tennis Miller said:
Kiu said:
It's snowing heavily in DC, I am home today.
I am camped here today. Looking forward to all the matches.
Just got done voting all matches, I even picked the super bowl winner.
:)

I'm about to go outside and shovel here just outside DC in VA!

Cheers

TM

It's snowing buckets here! No one told me this was coming. I have to go out and forage for supplies.

12 inches of snow expected. We've even got emails at work to try get home early today. It's going to rough. Stay warm and take care.
 

Sundaymorningguy

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Well as many close matches as these two have had and as much as I wanted Djokovic to win, you had to feel one day Stan was going to win one of these epic battles. Good for him! I think this early loss should fuel Djokovic on to bigger things this year.
 

britbox

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Post match Pressers:

Wawrinka:
http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2014-01-22/201401211390312981313.html

Djokovic:
http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2014-01-22/201401211390309603491.html