Kyrgios's problem: skill, not on-court attitude

[calitennis127]

After what happened in the 2nd round match against Nadal last week, I thought I'd comment on this. I've noticed a lot of tennis people remarking that Kyrgios needs to "keep his emotions in check," make better decisions, etc. All of this completely misses the point.

With his serve and athleticism, if he had any sort of consistent ground game at all he would have straight-setted Nadal. But he doesn't. And that's why in 11 events this year, he has only made a single quarterfinal (at Acapulco where he ended up winning the tournament).

He is a complete waste of ability. And that is not because he is flamboyant or irritable at times on the court. It is because his groundstrokes are terrible and his drop shot execution is horrendous. I would be a huge fan of Kyrgios if his ground game was not terrible most of the time. But it is.

If you look at the scenario that everyone was talking about when he hit that dart at Nadal's chest, it actually worked out very well. Not only did Kyrgious win that point to go up get the score from 40-15 to 40-30, but he shook Nadal up enough that he caused a double fault to get it to deuce and then Nadal missed the first serve at deuce. But then what happened? Kyrgios hit a decent return and got in a rally with Nadal, only to miss a perfectly routine backhand in the rally to give Nadal the advantage.

That was a skill problem in that moment. And that summarizes the whole problem with Kyrgios. His issue is not having a bad attitude but having in key ways a very underdeveloped game that lets him down in rallies and when returning serve. His problem is skill, not attitude.

 

[mrzz]

Hey, @calitennis127 , check out the "What the hell is talent" thread - Kyrgios is the most debated player there and you will find out a lot of arguments similar to yours -- as well as others completely opposite, naturally.

 

[El Dude]

I agree that his on-court antics and persona aren't the problem. In fact, it is part of his swagger, his bravado. If he started winning Slams I don't think he'd be any less emotionally demonstrative.

But why doesn't he develop those aspects of his game? Because of his mentality - that is underlying whatever skills he is lacking. From what we hear he doesn't work hard, he doesn't live and breathe tennis like Rafa, Novak, and Roger do - or any champion has to, and to the degree that lesser talents do.

So again, it isn't his on-court attitude, but his overall attitude to the sport itself, to his "work" as a tennis player.

Talent + hard work = skill level.

 

[MikeOne]

Kyrgios is all in the head.. he has issues. The fact that he lashes out at nadal and djokovic and viciously attacks verdasco personally, tells me something is not right. He’s known to have mental problems, serios mental issues i’ve read. Even in press conferences, he tends to speak as if he’s a victim, someone with a chip on his shoulder.

Something is not right, he is fighting demons.

 

[calitennis127]

If he started winning Slams I don't think he'd be any less emotionally demonstrative.

Agreed.

But why doesn't he develop those aspects of his game? Because of his mentality - that is underlying whatever skills he is lacking.

His off-court mentality, yes. Not his on-court one.

From what we hear he doesn't work hard, he doesn't live and breathe tennis like Rafa, Novak, and Roger do - or any champion has to, and to the degree that lesser talents do.

Well this is where we are talking about a level of stupidity that is simply inexcusable. For someone like Kyrgios to argue that he doesn't want to sacrifice his "social life" at all for tennis, I find that beyond stupid. Does he think Federer, Djokovic, and Nadal don't have "social lives"? At every city they go to in the world they are treated like kings. They also have a lot more opportunity to celebrate victories, which puts everyone in a good mood.

Kyrgios seems to view social life as an outlet for misery and failure as opposed to a byproduct of success. Given his physical talents, that is beyond dumb, especially at this point in his career. He is at a point now where he could really be exceling and instead he is wasting the chance on nonsense.

So again, it isn't his on-court attitude, but his overall attitude to the sport itself, to his "work" as a tennis player.

Yes, but the main issue he needs to tackle is the consistency of his groundstrokes from various places on the court. He cannot be spraying errors all match long and expect to ever attain consistent success at the ATP level. It would also help to not dump straightforward drop shots into the middle of the net.

 

[Ricardo]

Nick doesn't put in the hard yards. Although he does train, everyone does, he will not commit to the level of other top pros. He said he plays the way he wants to play, and that is consistent with what players say from the junior days. It's just his personality, not an act like some potatoes here try to make believe.

 

[Ricardo]

Hey, @calitennis127 , check out the "What the hell is talent" thread - Kyrgios is the most debated player there and you will find out a lot of arguments similar to yours -- as well as others completely opposite, naturally.

forget it, those who think Nick's talent overrated are all potatoes....what's the point of reading such 'argument' then? when potatoes refuse to see what players with real experience with Nick have to say, there is no point. No potato can really know a player by just watching TV. If I was just starting out and didn't know better, i'd actually think similarly but after all these years, nah, potatoes don't fool me

 

[calitennis127]

Nick doesn't put in the hard yards. Although he does train, everyone does, he will not commit to the level of other top pros. He said he plays the way he wants to play, and that is consistent with what players say from the junior days. It's just his personality, not an act like some potatoes here try to make believe.

It's also him being an idiot. A lot of the problems he has are correctable. To have only reached 1 quarterfinal in 11 tournaments with his ability and no major health issues is utterly inexcusable.

 

[britbox]

Nick doesn't put in the hard yards. Although he does train, everyone does, he will not commit to the level of other top pros. He said he plays the way he wants to play, and that is consistent with what players say from the junior days. It's just his personality, not an act like some potatoes here try to make believe.

Yup. He just follows the beat of his own drum. It might not mesh with what us "watchers" like, but it is what it is. His ethos will limit what he'll ever achieve in tennis terms, but he's sitting on over 7 million dollars prize money at the age of 24. I can't really identify with his ambition but I do smile at the rewards he's netted for doing whatever the hell he likes on his own terms.

 

[calitennis127]

Yup. He just follows the beat of his own drum. It might not mesh with what us "watchers" like, but it is what it is. His ethos will limit what he'll ever achieve in tennis terms, but he's sitting on over 7 million dollars prize money at the age of 24. I can't really identify with his ambition but I do smile at the rewards he's netted for doing whatever the hell he likes on his own terms.

1 quarterfinal in 11 tournaments. That's a joke for someone with his ability.

 

[britbox]

1 quarterfinal in 11 tournaments. That's a joke for someone with his ability.

He doesn't have the ambition to match... or at least that's how it appears. The guy is an enigma.

 

[Ricardo]

Yup. He just follows the beat of his own drum. It might not mesh with what us "watchers" like, but it is what it is. His ethos will limit what he'll ever achieve in tennis terms, but he's sitting on over 7 million dollars prize money at the age of 24. I can't really identify with his ambition but I do smile at the rewards he's netted for doing whatever the hell he likes on his own terms.

I laugh when potatoes here say he is acting like he doesn't care, to hide the fact that he isn't much good, or talented. I always wonder, what do potatoes really do? they seem to spend a lot of time to think of a rubbish plot, like something imaginary and then make up stories to justify such crap. When you see the pros talk about Nick, they are just being diplomatic, or they are just wrong, and these potatoes just chuck in some bs stats and try to say it as fact that Nick is some untalented hack.

Top players don't need to be diplomatic with Nick by praising him in anyway, in fact it's quite ok to slam him as some have already done. They say it because they actually believe it, Nadal even tried to explain by saying Nick has good ingredients...…..and I've never seen Rafa rate someone else like that. Or FAA saying Nick's tennis quality being incredible, yet he says he wants nothing to do with the guy.

 

[britbox]

I laugh when potatoes here say he is acting like he doesn't care, to hide the fact that he isn't much good, or talented. I always wonder, what do potatoes really do? they seem to spend a lot of time to think of a rubbish plot, like something imaginary and then make up stories to justify such crap. When you see the pros talk about Nick, they are just being diplomatic, or they are just wrong, and these potatoes just chuck in some bs stats and try to say it as fact that Nick is some untalented hack.

Top players don't need to be diplomatic with Nick by praising him in anyway, in fact it's quite ok to slam him as some have already done. They say it because they actually believe it, Nadal even tried to explain by saying Nick has good ingredients...…..and I've never seen Rafa rate someone else like that. Or FAA saying Nick's tennis quality being incredible, yet he says he wants nothing to do with the guy.

I think he probably cares more than he lets on. Nick will do whatever he wants to do, but I think he'll regret a few things down the track. The sport evolves year on year and Nick's not evolving with it. He's already being overtaken by the next wave. I genuinely like the guy... he's got a lot of redeeming features, unlike punks like Tomic.

 

[mrzz]

Well, just to throw in some controversy... look at the guy's service motion. It is completely "automated". He can finish off games in 40 seconds with four identical unplayable serves. How do you get to that? Surprise, surprise... by training.

 

[Ricardo]

Well, just to throw in some controversy... look at the guy's service motion. It is completely "automated". He can finish off games in 40 seconds with four identical unplayable serves. How do you get to that? Surprise, surprise... by training.

is there anyone's service motion that isn't 'automated'? so ability to serve 4 unplayable serves is an evidence that he isn't so talented, in what way? that he was also trained how to serve like others?

There is no controversy, there is only potato thinking. I've never seen anyone qualified ever knocking someone for ability to serve 4 unreturnables, as if it's negative that proves whatever.

 

[Ricardo]

I think he probably cares more than he lets on. Nick will do whatever he wants to do, but I think he'll regret a few things down the track. The sport evolves year on year and Nick's not evolving with it. He's already being overtaken by the next wave. I genuinely like the guy... he's got a lot of redeeming features, unlike punks like Tomic.

he cares, he cares a hell of a lot, but in a way that's different to others. you can see how much he cares, even maybe too much in something insignificant like Lavers cup, where he was in tears afterwards losing to Federer (which he didn't do even in slams). He isn't wired the same like others, that's for sure....something the potatoes here fail to or refuse to understand. This guy isn't out there doing his antics so he can beat the big 3 by distracting them (potatoes like BS are just full of bs really). Now if you can beat the big 3 by doing such simple things, then they are not big 3, they are actually the weak 3. It appears to me that against average players, he isn't committed to prepare professionally and thus suffer so many bad losses while against the big 3, he knows he has to prepare properly to be able to have a chance, that's when he is up for it mentally and has proven he would up his level accordingly to hang with them.

 

[DarthFed]

Yup. He just follows the beat of his own drum. It might not mesh with what us "watchers" like, but it is what it is. His ethos will limit what he'll ever achieve in tennis terms, but he's sitting on over 7 million dollars prize money at the age of 24. I can't really identify with his ambition but I do smile at the rewards he's netted for doing whatever the hell he likes on his own terms.

Yep, and this is something we can easily lose track of. Nick is traveling the world, playing tennis professionally and making plenty of money. Life is good and he is one of the most entertaining players on tour. It may be frustrating that his dedication/focus isn't where we would like but it is what it is. I still like watching him.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Nick cares. His problem is he likes to act like he does not care because that is easier. Admitting he cares comes with other sets of responsibilities that I don't think he is ready (or maybe will never be ready) to take on.

 

[Ricardo]

Nick cares. His problem is he likes to act like he does not care because that is easier. Admitting he cares comes with other sets of responsibilities that I don't think he is ready (or maybe will never be ready) to take on.

Admitting he cares would mean that he needs to behave WELL, something he clearly was never known to do. He is still like those misbehaving juniors, Fed used to be as well but clearly grew out of it (since his coach Carter).

 

[brokenshoelace]

Being lazy is just such a wonderful excuse. Literally every loss becomes excusable. It's a ready made narrative. You're kidding yourself if you don't think Nick is aware of that and in a way, feeds into the narrative. Easier than saying "I worked hard but I just wasn't good enough." I'm not saying the guy is a workhorse but it's hilarious how willing most are to just believe that he doesn't train enough.