Your expectations from Dimitrov in USO series?

[Billie]

Ha ha...beating the same drum over and over again and off topic as well. Well one player always plays at least a little bit better than the other guy who loses. It happens in all matches. Of course that there are circumstances about each win and each loss, these are human beings not robots.:snigger

I don't see a reason why Dimitrov shouldn't do well in USO or the two masters before it. He has a nice game, he improved physically. I still think that for him to win one of these, he really needs a bit of luck as well. I don't see him as a guy who could go through all top guys that he would normally face, but a couple of favourites losing early and a door could be opened for him. We'll see.

 

[Fastgrass]

I always hated the "fatigue" excuse more than anything. The reason Roger was fatigued is that he couldn't take care of DP in less than 4 hours. On the other hand Murray beat a much better player than DP in straight sets. If Roger takes care of DP in straightforward fashion (as he should on grass) then he may have arrived in better shape.

That's true Roger should've finished SF opponent in straights but DP wasn't on choking mode neither his opponent was Head case JJ. If you have watched those matches the level of play was insane, there is no reason to underrate JMDP even on grass since when he's on very few can stop him. Fed, Djoko did very fine work handling peak Delpo (He stated after 2013 match), Murray would've lost to JMDP considering his abilities to handle big hitters.

Same deal at AO 2013, no way Roger should be going 5 with Tsonga and so you can't complain about fatigue if you take forever to finish off a lesser players

Tsonga, Wawa, JMDP definitely lesser players as their achievements says but when these guys hits peak Fed/Djoko handles them well. If Murray faces strong QF opponent he gets flat outplayed. Against Dimitrov Wimbledon 14, Wawa USO 13 he wasn't good enough to take set, credit goes to Fed/Djoko handling big hitters most of the time.

If Djokovic got Youzny- Verdasco- JJ draw instead of Haas- Berdych- JMDP he would've done it without dropping set and probably Won Wimbledon since Murray would've lost lost/completely tired facing Djokovic going through Haas-Berdych- JMDP.

Depth of draw matters most, there is no wonder beating JJ, Verdasco, Chardy kind of guys always easier than JMDP, Berdych. Murray still drops two sets against likes of Verdasco since he was never as better as Fed/Djoko under normal situations.

 

[Fastgrass]

Incidentally, the same Del Potro pushed Djokovis to 5 sets in (one of the matches of
the year) Wimbledon semifinals in 2013, thus to some extent contributing to what happened
in the finals.

Fruit Baskets and Wine anyone?

and coincidentally JMDP has gone out of tour Murray is struggling to beat main rivals in slams. Poor Murray needs new friend tiring his opponents again than good coach.

But seriously JMDP deserves big share in task "Ending draught of 77 years of British champ", they should pray for fast recovery of JMDP since there is no one on the tour as good as beating/tiring "Big 3" since Tsonga has been falling fast. This is the only way Murray could beat his main rival in slams.

 

[Billie]

Incidentally, the same Del Potro pushed Djokovis to 5 sets in (one of the matches of
the year) Wimbledon semifinals in 2013, thus to some extent contributing to what happened
in the finals.

Fruit Baskets and Wine anyone?

and coincidentally JMDP has gone out of tour Murray is struggling to beat main rivals in slams. Poor Murray needs new friend tiring his opponents again than good coach.

But seriously JMDP deserves big share in task "Ending draught of 77 years of British champ", they should pray for fast recovery of JMDP since there is no one on the tour as good as beating/tiring "Big 3" since Tsonga has been falling fast. This is the only way Murray could his main rival in slams.

That is funny, you remind me of one of my friends:blush:, but I don't think that you are going to be a very popular guy around here with that kind of talk.:laydownlaughing

 

[Fastgrass]

".. father of two". What does that have to do with anything? He's 2 years older now and has 2 more kids and he still took the world #2 to 5 sets a few weeks ago on the same court. You'd think Federer was the only player that had ever had a tough semi. Andy was the one with the tougher opponent in the semis.

How old you are? Have you touched Tennis racquet just once in your life? My point was Fed was tired and 31 yo, with that situations he would've lost to any top player. Let's see how Murray performs at 31. Oh wait he's having hard time winning set young opponents at 27! Every match will be bonus for 31 yo Murray if he gets married have kid.

BTW a player in his prime can still play badly on any given day. That should not need to be explained.

Muttard logic:

Federer lost at 31 well past his prime being extremely tired = Excuse.

While 27 yo Fresh Murray in his prime getting smoked by new generation player = Just a bad day!. :lolz:

Certainly qualifying for "Most objective and unbiased Fan base Award." :cover

 

[Fastgrass]

That is funny, you remind me of one of my friends:blush:, but I don't think that you are going to be a very popular guy around here with that kind of talk. :laydownlaughing

Popular in bunch of fanboyos and tards you mean?
:laydownlaughing. If you see earlier post, I wasn't one who started excuse talk, since it was started by fanboy troll refusing to accept it was "Crushing defeat" because of some excuse.

I don't believe in excuses but if tards refuses to give full credit to Dimitrov for his victory over Murray then I could easily discredit Murray's Olympic victory over Fed. In all fairness Dimitrov as well as Murray deserves victories since they were better on given day. and if match would've been under normal situations Fed would've won it comfortably comparing with peak to peak while this can't said for Dimitrov- Murray case since Dimitrov is yet to hit peak and still good enough to beat prime Murray in straights. Dimitrov would've won even against 2013 version of Murray since Murray was never head and shoulders above field as Fed was in his peak. I don't believe in excuses, neither I like discrediting victory but it's very is to do it since every loss has certain reasons. This is my honest opinion about this topic!

Ha ha...beating the same drum over and over again and off topic as well. Well one player always plays at least a little bit better than the other guy who loses. It happens in all matches. Of course that there are circumstances about each win and each loss, these are human beings not robots.:snigger

Excuses for Fanboyos/girlos/tards.

I don't see a reason why Dimitrov shouldn't do well in USO or the two masters before it. He has a nice game, he improved physically. I still think that for him to win one of these, he really needs a bit of luck as well. I don't see him as a guy who could go through all top guys that he would normally face, but a couple of favourites losing early and a door could be opened for him. We'll see.

Very realistic analysis, there is no need to overrate Dimitrov for his straight set win over Murray since there is day and night difference beating Murray and other Big3 in slam. but he gets slightly lucky with draw without facing any member of Big 3 he'll be favorite for title from current second tier players including Murray, Raonic, Ferrer etc etc.

I do think he could beat Nadal at Cincy/Montreal and having slim chances at USO too, could you see it happening? Realistic opinions always will be respected.

 

[Kieran]

Fastgrass, your real name isn't Ricardo, is it? Same stranger to logic, same inability to discuss without venom.

The DP semi against Nole is interesting. I never understood why people thought it left Novak flattened and exhausted for the final. I realise they're different matches in different years at different slams, but Nole played Nadal for six hours in Oz two days after a huge five setter. I always felt Novak was in mental midget mode in the Wimbledon final against Andy, but not tired.

Andy was in mental midget mode against Grigor. Drawing huge conclusions from the match in Grigors benefit is silly. I know, I'm repeating myself but so is the thread. It's hypnotic, actually, but not in a spooky cool way...

 

[Backhand_DTL]

I'm not really buying that Del Potro is the reason that Federer lost the OG to Murray or that Djokovic lost Wimbledon 2013 to Murray. As to the above stated, Roger had a day to recover, while Andy played medal matches at the Olympics. And it's not like Djokovic had never played a 5-set semi before winning a Major. (Australia '12.) In both cases, I think Murray was committed to the win, and it showed. He deserves full credit, and I don't think he needs to send hearts and flowers to Del Potro.

It's impossible to say that the matches against Del Potro were the reason for Murray winning those titles, but it probably played a role in how easily he won the finals. At the same time the results show that Andy was the much better player on the day and he might very well have won even if Federer/Djokovic would have brought a significantly higher level.

As for the comparison with the Australian Open 2012 (and to a lesser extent the US Open 2011), I think there were some factors which made it possible for Novak to win these despite a tough semi final. Those were played on his favorite surface and he was somewhat comfortable playing Rafa at that time. Also he arguably was in better form and much more confident than at Wimbledon 2013. So I think with the circumstances there (uncomfortable on grass, uncomfortable when playing against Andy, high temperatures, nearly no crowd support) it was very hard for Novak to find a high level of energy or intensity after such a draining semi final.

 

[Kieran]

As for the comparison with the Australian Open 2012 (and to a lesser extent the US Open 2011), I think there were some factors which made it possible for Novak to win these despite a tough semi final. Those were played on his favorite surface and he was somewhat comfortable playing Rafa at that time. Also he arguably was in better form and much more confident than at Wimbledon 2013. So I think with the circumstances there (uncomfortable on grass, uncomfortable when playing against Andy, high temperatures, nearly no crowd support) it was very hard for Novak to find a high level of energy or intensity after such a draining semi final.

Interesting. Using this as a loose sort of basis - "played on his favorite surface", "he was somewhat comfortable playing (Murray) at that time", "he arguably was in better form and much more confident" - it would be difficult to make an argument for tiredness having any effect at all on Federer in the Olympic final.

Tiredness would have been felt equally by Novak on hards, as grass. In 2011, Rafa played 4 matches in 5 days, so he'd have been more affected by tiredness - but even more so again by Nole. So I get your point about the feelgood factor, and that it can drain a player's battery even more if he's tired and also has confidence issues, in which case maybe the issue isn't fatigue at all: but like Andy v Grigor, I think Nole's woeful attempt at Wimbledon in 2013 says more about him, than anything his opponent did to him, great though Grigor and Andy played...

 

[Moxie]

I'm not really buying that Del Potro is the reason that Federer lost the OG to Murray or that Djokovic lost Wimbledon 2013 to Murray. As to the above stated, Roger had a day to recover, while Andy played medal matches at the Olympics. And it's not like Djokovic had never played a 5-set semi before winning a Major. (Australia '12.) In both cases, I think Murray was committed to the win, and it showed. He deserves full credit, and I don't think he needs to send hearts and flowers to Del Potro.

It's impossible to say that the matches against Del Potro were the reason for Murray winning those titles, but it probably played a role in how easily he won the finals. At the same time the results show that Andy was the much better player on the day and he might very well have won even if Federer/Djokovic would have brought a significantly higher level.

As for the comparison with the Australian Open 2012 (and to a lesser extent the US Open 2011), I think there were some factors which made it possible for Novak to win these despite a tough semi final. Those were played on his favorite surface and he was somewhat comfortable playing Rafa at that time. Also he arguably was in better form and much more confident than at Wimbledon 2013. So I think with the circumstances there (uncomfortable on grass, uncomfortable when playing against Andy, high temperatures, nearly no crowd support) it was very hard for Novak to find a high level of energy or intensity after such a draining semi final.

I think you've got the point exactly, FG.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

As for the comparison with the Australian Open 2012 (and to a lesser extent the US Open 2011), I think there were some factors which made it possible for Novak to win these despite a tough semi final. Those were played on his favorite surface and he was somewhat comfortable playing Rafa at that time. Also he arguably was in better form and much more confident than at Wimbledon 2013. So I think with the circumstances there (uncomfortable on grass, uncomfortable when playing against Andy, high temperatures, nearly no crowd support) it was very hard for Novak to find a high level of energy or intensity after such a draining semi final.

Interesting. Using this as a loose sort of basis - "played on his favorite surface", "he was somewhat comfortable playing (Murray) at that time", "he arguably was in better form and much more confident" - it would be difficult to make an argument for tiredness having any effect at all on Federer in the Olympic final.

Tiredness would have been felt equally by Novak on hards, as grass. In 2011, Rafa played 4 matches in 5 days, so he'd have been more affected by tiredness - but even more so again by Nole. So I get your point about the feelgood factor, and that it can drain a player's battery even more if he's tired and also has confidence issues, in which case maybe the issue isn't fatigue at all: but like Andy v Grigor, I think Nole's woeful attempt at Wimbledon in 2013 says more about him, than anything his opponent did to him, great though Grigor and Andy played...

Yes, last year's Wimbledon final certainly wasn't a good performance from Nole and probably nobody would have expected him to play that poor, but when looking at all circumstances it can be explained to some extent.

I think for an effort like Rafa's at the Australian Open 2009 or Nole's 2012 a player needs to be close to his peak physically, to recover well enough from the previous match, and mentally, to still really believe in his chances against another great player while being tired/fatigued. For Roger in the Olympics final the physical side was lacking, so even if feeling confident playing against Andy in a big final he was unable to beat him at such a level, whereas Nole's deficit in the 2013 Wimbledon final was more mental as he never seemed to believe he could overcome all those circumstances that were seemingly against him.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Tsonga, Wawa, JMDP definitely lesser players as their achievements says but when these guys hits peak Fed/Djoko handles them well. If Murray faces strong QF opponent he gets flat outplayed. Against Dimitrov Wimbledon 14, Wawa USO 13 he wasn't good enough to take set, credit goes to Fed/Djoko handling big hitters most of the time.

Yes because it's not like Djokovic or Federer have had any defeats to big hitters like Wawrinka or Gulbis in slams this year either.

Also I'd like to know how you include Tsonga in that list of players who Djokovic and Federer handle better than Murray. Head to heads:

Murray 9-1 Tsonga
Federer 11-4 Tsonga
Djokovic 13-5 Tsonga

 

[Billie]

That is funny, you remind me of one of my friends:blush:, but I don't think that you are going to be a very popular guy around here with that kind of talk. :laydownlaughing

Popular in bunch of fanboyos and tards you mean?
:laydownlaughing. If you see earlier post, I wasn't one who started excuse talk, since it was started by fanboy troll refusing to accept it was "Crushing defeat" because of some excuse.

I don't believe in excuses but if tards refuses to give full credit to Dimitrov for his victory over Murray then I could easily discredit Murray's Olympic victory over Fed. In all fairness Dimitrov as well as Murray deserves victories since they were better on given day. and if match would've been under normal situations Fed would've won it comfortably comparing with peak to peak while this can't said for Dimitrov- Murray case since Dimitrov is yet to hit peak and still good enough to beat prime Murray in straights. Dimitrov would've won even against 2013 version of Murray since Murray was never head and shoulders above field as Fed was in his peak. I don't believe in excuses, neither I like discrediting victory but it's very is to do it since every loss has certain reasons. This is my honest opinion about this topic!

Ha ha...beating the same drum over and over again and off topic as well. Well one player always plays at least a little bit better than the other guy who loses. It happens in all matches. Of course that there are circumstances about each win and each loss, these are human beings not robots.:snigger

Excuses for Fanboyos/girlos/tards.

I don't see a reason why Dimitrov shouldn't do well in USO or the two masters before it. He has a nice game, he improved physically. I still think that for him to win one of these, he really needs a bit of luck as well. I don't see him as a guy who could go through all top guys that he would normally face, but a couple of favourites losing early and a door could be opened for him. We'll see.

Very realistic analysis, there is no need to overrate Dimitrov for his straight set win over Murray since there is day and night difference beating Murray and other Big3 in slam. but he gets slightly lucky with draw without facing any member of Big 3 he'll be favorite for title from current second tier players including Murray, Raonic, Ferrer etc etc.

I do think he could beat Nadal at Cincy/Montreal and having slim chances at USO too, could you see it happening? Realistic opinions always will be respected.

I absolutely think he can win against any one of the top players, Nadal and Nole included. He did reasonably well against them in the past so no reason to think otherwise. But when it comes to doing in over and over again, we'll see how Dimitrov does.

BTW my earlier remark about being popular, please don't take it as a critique, it was more of a friendly advice. I've seen too many posters being too frank or too anti-somebody and it usually doesn't end well for one person, if you know what I mean.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I think being "anti somebody" not only will not endear you to other posters, it is probably
not good for oneself either. However, I am not too sure about "being too frank". The point of
being on a BB is so that we can exchange our views frankly, isn't it? Being opinionated to
the extent that you would not change your views even after being clearly shown you
are wrong certainly means you are not really making good use of BB. I always think
there is more learning opportunity when discussing with someone who has diametrically
opposite views as mine.

 

[Fastgrass]

With Toronto draw out, Dimitrov being seeded 7th gets bye in first round but potential opponents are pretty tough.

His potential opponents-

Young- Simon/ Kohli- Wawa- Djokovic- Fed/Berdych/Cilic/Raonic.

Young, Simon/Kohli surely beatable with current form but power base liner Wawa is biggest hurdle, since if he reaches QF there then he must be "on", in form Wawa is nightmare opponent for your every player.

Let's see how it goes, in my view if he gets past QF, he has very nice chance to upset No 1 seed.