Wimbledon Day 7: Monday, June 30 - Order of Play

[crystalfire]

I'm not so confident about putting Murray as favourite to beat Djokovic, let alone as comfortably as some seem to be suggesting. I think Andy has a good shot at him if he plays to his best but that's still a considerable if given his form in the last 12 months. I do think he's pretty much back at his best now but still no top 10 wins since last year's Wimbledon final. Post-surgery Murray has a bit left to prove just yet.

Also, people are talking about Djokovic in the "last rounds of slams" in reference to the semis and the final, when in reality, the doubts are based on his final performances, the exception being Roland Garros 2013 where he lost to Rafa in a match that was the final in all but name. If there is a mental effect taking its toll on Novak here, it won't be at its fullest in the semi-final for me.

More importantly, I'm only worried about Dimitrov right now. I do think Andy will beat him but if Grigor plays at his absolute best for the entire match (a very big if), Murray may not be in total control

agree. djoker only struggles in finals. and i dont think murrays a huge favorite against djoker like a lot of seem to believe

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=subCDHN3gEI[/video]

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVxuiwNtRw0[/video]

 

[rafanoy1992]

I don't think Murray is a huge favorite over Djokovic if they ever meet in the semifinals. But at the same time, Murray should be the favorite in that match.

I just think in this particular court, Murray has a slightly better game than Djokovic. There is a reason why Murray is 2-0 against Djokovic in grass court. Murray is very comfortable in grass and he knows what shots to use and how to use them.

That's why I believe if Murray and Djokovic meet in the semifinals, I believe Murray will defeat Djokovic; however, it would not be easy because Djokovic is still Djokovic.

 

[tented]

And even if he plays normal I don't think he is beating Murray here.

If Djokovic plays like he is playing today, he will definitely have a good shot of beating Murray.

The point is Djokovic won't play like this, because he's been such a head case in the last few rounds of GSs.

I really think this is mostly tennisfrontier propaganda. He hasn't brought his best in finals, to say the least. That however makes him neither a mental midget nor a headcase. It's just that it's been repeated here so many times that everyone just sort of believes it.

And the last time he won one was ... well, I almost forget.

He hasn't won a major outside Australia since 2011, despite being in several semifinals, if not finals. Something is going wrong in the later stages of GSs, yet he's playing well enough to reach them on a regular basis. If that's not a sign of something mental going on, then I don't know what is. Losing here in straight sets last year in a wholly uninspired performance. Completely going away at last year's USO after losing the third set. Etc, etc.

 

[rafanoy1992]

And even if he plays normal I don't think he is beating Murray here.

If Djokovic plays like he is playing today, he will definitely have a good shot of beating Murray.

The point is Djokovic won't play like this, because he's been such a head case in the last few rounds of GSs.

I really think this is mostly tennisfrontier propaganda. He hasn't brought his best in finals, to say the least. That however makes him neither a mental midget nor a headcase. It's just that it's been repeated here so many times that everyone just sort of believes it.

And the last time he won one was ... well, I almost forget.

He hasn't won a major outside Australia since 2011, despite being in several semifinals, if not finals. Something is going wrong in the later stages of GSs, yet he's playing well enough to reach them on a regular basis. If that's not a sign of something mental going on, then I don't know what is. Losing here in straight sets last year in a wholly uninspired performance. Completely going away at last year's USO after losing the third set. Etc, etc.

Tented, can we make separate Quarterfinal matches poll threads or not?

 

[tented]

Tented, can we make separate Quarterfinal matches poll threads or not?

Sure! Please go ahead and make them, if you want.

From the quarterfinals on, we'll do separate threads/polls.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

And even if he plays normal I don't think he is beating Murray here.

If Djokovic plays like he is playing today, he will definitely have a good shot of beating Murray.

The point is Djokovic won't play like this, because he's been such a head case in the last few rounds of GSs.

I really think this is mostly tennisfrontier propaganda. He hasn't brought his best in finals, to say the least. That however makes him neither a mental midget nor a headcase. It's just that it's been repeated here so many times that everyone just sort of believes it.

Well call it a mental block of sorts if you want to sugarcoat it. But the fact of the matter is his level has usually dropped out of nowhere starting with semifinals the last 2 + years now.

I don't think it's just mental. On faster and especially fast, low bouncing courts Federer and Murray can trouble him with their slices and have an easier time hitting through him and getting some free points on serve. If it's high bouncing it becomes harder for Novak to consistently hit through Nadal and Nadal more often dictates play. The events Novak was best at in the recent years, Australian Open, Miami, Toronto/Montreal, Peking, Shanghai, Paris Indoors and the WTF, all have low to medium speed combined with low to medium bounce. On those courts no style of play bothers him too much if he plays at a high level himself.

Regardless it's obvious he underperformed in the decisive matches at the slams and especially the US Open during the last 2 1/2 years and should have won more than just two Australian Open titles since 2012. But he was basically always meeting an opponent who can create problems for him and Novak couldn't keep up a high enough level when it mattered.

He hasn't won a major outside Australia since 2011, despite being in several semifinals, if not finals. Something is going wrong in the later stages of GSs, yet he's playing well enough to reach them on a regular basis. If that's not a sign of something mental going on, then I don't know what is. Losing here in straight sets last year in a wholly uninspired performance. Completely going away at last year's USO after losing the third set. Etc, etc.

Him always getting far shows that solid play from Novak is normally enough to beat anybody apart from the other Big 4 anywhere. But if he needed more than his solid level he most of the time couldn't find it. Sometimes the conditions played a role in that and sometimes he just wasn't able to improve at these occasions.

I think that's why even after seemingly tough defeats he rarely struggles to reach at least the semi final at the next tournament.

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TvAPfnpBLQ[/video]

 

[DarthFed]

I'm not so confident about putting Murray as favourite to beat Djokovic, let alone as comfortably as some seem to be suggesting. I think Andy has a good shot at him if he plays to his best but that's still a considerable if given his form in the last 12 months. I do think he's pretty much back at his best now but still no top 10 wins since last year's Wimbledon final. Post-surgery Murray has a bit left to prove just yet.

Also, people are talking about Djokovic in the "last rounds of slams" in reference to the semis and the final, when in reality, the doubts are based on his final performances, the exception being Roland Garros 2013 where he lost to Rafa in a match that was the final in all but name. If there is a mental effect taking its toll on Novak here, it won't be at its fullest in the semi-final for me.

More importantly, I'm only worried about Dimitrov right now. I do think Andy will beat him but if Grigor plays at his absolute best for the entire match (a very big if), Murray may not be in total control

agree. djoker only struggles in finals. and i dont think murrays a huge favorite against djoker like a lot of seem to believe

Nah, he has won most of his semis the past few years but has often struggled badly in the process and then the final has been a continuation of that. He went 5 with DP and Stan before the Wimbledon and USO finals last year, played pretty poorly in a win vs. Gulbis at RG this year, struggled really bad in the wind vs. Ferrer at 2012 USO, looked badly out of sorts in the Wimbledon semi vs. Roger that year in sets 1 and 4, etc.

 

[Backhand_DTL]

I'm not so confident about putting Murray as favourite to beat Djokovic, let alone as comfortably as some seem to be suggesting. I think Andy has a good shot at him if he plays to his best but that's still a considerable if given his form in the last 12 months. I do think he's pretty much back at his best now but still no top 10 wins since last year's Wimbledon final. Post-surgery Murray has a bit left to prove just yet.

Also, people are talking about Djokovic in the "last rounds of slams" in reference to the semis and the final, when in reality, the doubts are based on his final performances, the exception being Roland Garros 2013 where he lost to Rafa in a match that was the final in all but name. If there is a mental effect taking its toll on Novak here, it won't be at its fullest in the semi-final for me.

More importantly, I'm only worried about Dimitrov right now. I do think Andy will beat him but if Grigor plays at his absolute best for the entire match (a very big if), Murray may not be in total control

agree. djoker only struggles in finals. and i dont think murrays a huge favorite against djoker like a lot of seem to believe

Nah, he has won most of his semis the past few years but has often struggled badly in the process and then the final has been a continuation of that. He went 5 with DP and Stan before the Wimbledon and USO finals last year, played pretty poorly in a win vs. Gulbis at RG this year, struggled really bad in the wind vs. Ferrer at 2012 USO, looked badly out of sorts in the Wimbledon semi vs. Roger that year in sets 1 and 4, etc.

Yes, I think the difference in his performance between semi final and final often wasn't too big, but in the SF he often had opponents where he didn't need a great performance to win. The two times he needed a really high level there, Wimbledon 2012 and French Open 2013, he couldn't bring it at that stage either.

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2RIlbIsyDo[/video]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y67wsfArYs[/video]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeocQqPmJOs[/video]

 

[Front242]

Match point was class but wish he'd stop with the Robert De Niro style pout.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Match point was class but wish he'd stop with the Robert De Niro style pout.

Agreed. I don't like the way Novak conducts himself on court at times. He seemed to take issue with the crowd backing Tsonga. Can he blame them for wanting the match to go on so they can see more tennis?

 

[Front242]

^ Exactly. They just wanted a 4th set and nearly got one but that gomey face he puts on after big points like that annoys me. The bald tanned geezer on his team did the same afterwards too lol.

 

[nehmeth]

Match point was class but wish he'd stop with the Robert De Niro style pout.

"Are you talking to me?" :snigger

Better than someone else digging in the front and back of his trousers after every point...

or another guy carrying on a detailed and expletive laced conversation with himself while repeatedly forgetting which "injured" leg to grab after a lost point.

 

[Front242]

Match point was class but wish he'd stop with the Robert De Niro style pout.

"Are you talking to me?" :snigger

Better than someone else digging in the front and back of his trousers after every point...

or another guy carrying on a detailed and expletive laced conversation with himself while repeatedly forgetting which "injured" leg to grab after a lost point.

I second that No fan of Murray constantly saying come on after his opponents make lousy errors either. By all means do so when you hit a winner or a fantastic shot at that but going come on after errors is unsporting. He does that more than most of the players on the ATP circuit. Not a fan of it. A certain Spanish fella tends to do it too. Again, win the point with your own great shot and I'm all for it but fist pumping and shouting come on after errors is not nice.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

I don't see a problem with it if the opponent hits a "forced" error, as subjective as that term can be. Murray and Nadal play in a fashion that by using their own resilience and consistency, they win the point through an opponent's error.

I do get annoyed at Andy when he clutches a hamstring or a hip if he gets outhit for a point though.

 

[brokenshoelace]

The things that bother people about some players are pretty odd to me. Is Nadal showing his anus to the world? There's a LOT to dislike about Nadal. Picking his underwear shouldn't be one of them.

 

[Front242]

I don't see a problem with it if the opponent hits a "forced" error, as subjective as that term can be. Murray and Nadal play in a fashion that by using their own resilience and consistency, they win the point through an opponent's error.

I do get annoyed at Andy when he clutches a hamstring or a hip if he gets outhit for a point though.

Well forced errors are fine but I'm talking routine shot blasted miles wide or into the net and then him yelling "om on" or at least that's what it sounds like! Did it loads against Anderson. And yeah the body part grabs are his trademark