Will Nadal pass Federer?

[Moxie]

Rafa won at least 2 slams on each surface but Federer needs at least a 2nd slam on clay or he can never be GOAT.

He also needs to beat Rafa at RG like Rafa beat him at Wimbledon. A GOAT should be able to find a solution.

He also needs to improve the 3-10 record against Rafa in slams to be taken seriously.

And an Olympics gold is needed too because in the Big 3 era it's up there with the slams.

Good point that Rafa has won 2 Majors on each surface, which neither Roger nor Novak has done. And Rafa was the first player ever to hold a Major on each of the surfaces simultaneously. I don't think the rest is required. You can't really wonder if Roger is to be taken seriously. And I certainly don't think that the Olympic Gold Medal makes up for 1 major, let alone 3. Olympic medals are bonus points, no more.

 

[atttomole]

Rafa won at least 2 slams on each surface but Federer needs at least a 2nd slam on clay or he can never be GOAT.

He also needs to beat Rafa at RG like Rafa beat him at Wimbledon. A GOAT should be able to find a solution.

He also needs to improve the 3-10 record against Rafa in slams to be taken seriously.

And an Olympics gold is needed too because in the Big 3 era it's up there with the slams.

Long time no see. Nadal should be thankful for the grass at the Wimbledon. With proper grass, I don't think he would even bother entering the tournament.

 

[Moxie]

Nadal should be thankful for the grass at the Wimbledon. With proper grass, I don't think he would even bother entering the tournament.

This is the tiredest old trope, and the worst excuse you Feddies have ever come up with for Roger losing to Rafa at Wimbledon in his prime. It seems to me that folks keep arguing for surfaces that would best suit Federer. Well, if he's actually the GOAT, then he could navigate them without the surfaces always leaning to his strengths. And he's done fairly well on that score, btw. But don't tell me that Nadal wouldn't have even tried on "proper grass." His ambition was always to win it, and you can't say how he'd have done, on *ahem* 'proper grass.'

 

[Moxie]

@Hamidreza Roohian: I did watch the highlights of the Basel final from 2015. From what I saw, Roger was still mainly winning with his FH, and his backhand was rather his usual. It's not like he hasn't always had winners on the BH side, but it has tended to break down over the course of the match, esp. v. Nadal. The difference in 2017 was a big aggression with it, which is not so much in evidence in the Basel match. You can see the difference here.

 

[DarthFed]

This is the tiredest old trope, and the worst excuse you Feddies have ever come up with for Roger losing to Rafa at Wimbledon in his prime. It seems to me that folks keep arguing for surfaces that would best suit Federer. Well, if he's actually the GOAT, then he could navigate them without the surfaces always leaning to his strengths. And he's done fairly well on that score, btw. But don't tell me that Nadal wouldn't have even tried on "proper grass." His ambition was always to win it, and you can't say how he'd have done, on *ahem* 'proper grass.'

He beat Roger in a year where everyone and their grandma was beating him. Or is that only an excuse for Nadal in 2015?

And it is a fact that Wimbledon is basically the Madrid of grass courts. I think if RG was played on Madrid like conditions the resumes of Nadal and Federer look quite a bit different there. We all know who is helped and who is hurt by the courts slowing down over time...

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Nadal is 10-3 in slam meetings against Federer. :spank:

Goodnight. B-)

 

[DarthFed]

Nadal is 10-3 in slam meetings against Federer. :spank:

Goodnight. B-)

Nadal is far inferior to 2 players on all but one surface. They slowed down everything for him too and it still hasn't helped him to a comparable resume for the other 75% of the tennis season. Nighty night.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Nadal is far inferior to 2 players on all but one surface. They slowed down everything for him too and it still hasn't helped him to a comparable resume for the other 75% of the tennis season. Nighty night.

Oh the surface excuse again... :sleep:

Speaking of surface, the weakest link will always be Federer on clay (only 1 clay out of 20 slams, and 0-6 there against his main rival).

Nighty night.

 

[Moxie]

He beat Roger in a year where everyone and their grandma was beating him. Or is that only an excuse for Nadal in 2015?

I looked at the comparison for those years, and there are a lot of similarities, I'll give you that. Roger 66-15, 4 titles. Rafa 61-20, 3 titles. Both lost to some reasonable competition, and to some glaring surprises. Except that Roger was 26-27 in 2008, coming off a pretty good year, though down from his most stellar; and Rafa was 28-29, and his 2014 hadn't been that stellar, either, so a more reasonable dip. Roger's was more surprising, came on quicker, younger, though I know he had mono early in the year.

 

[Moxie]

Nadal is far inferior to 2 players on all but one surface. They slowed down everything for him too and it still hasn't helped him to a comparable resume for the other 75% of the tennis season.

You can't get away with this: he's not "far inferior" to 2 players on all but one surface. That's an exaggeration. He has majors on all surfaces, and wins over both on them. And "they" didn't slow down "everything" to help Nadal. You're far too paranoid about that. Various surfaces were changed over time, and a lot of that happened before Rafa even came up. No cabal did that to help Rafa and hurt Roger. Jeepers.

 

[DarthFed]

Oh the surface excuse again... :sleep:

Speaking of surface, the weakest link will always be Federer on clay (only 1 clay out of 20 slams, and 0-6 there against his main rival).

Nighty night.

I'd say the weakest link is Rafa indoors. I still see Nadal fans cry that their boy couldn't beat a scrub version of Djokovic indoors last year. Nadal is a total layup indoors without that high bounce.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I'd say the weakest link is Rafa indoors. I still see Nadal fans cry that their boy couldn't beat a scrub version of Djokovic indoors last year. Nadal is a total layup indoors without that high bounce.

Indoors is not a surface. :cuckoo: You have gone completely mad now that Rafa is only 2 slams away.

 

[DarthFed]

You can't get away with this: he's not "far inferior" to 2 players on all but one surface. That's an exaggeration. He has majors on all surfaces, and wins over both on them. And "they" didn't slow down "everything" to help Nadal. You're far too paranoid about that. Various surfaces were changed over time, and a lot of that happened before Rafa even came up. No cabal did that to help Rafa and hurt Roger. Jeepers.

Except he is far inferior on grass, fast hards, slow hards, and indoors. There's these little things called stats that show this pretty easily.

Wimbledon is about the only tournament that had already slowed down before the big 3. The wide slowdown has been more in the past 10 years. USO is now a shameless tournament and we all saw what happened when they actually sped up Australia for a couple years.

 

[DarthFed]

Indoors is not a surface. :cuckoo: You have gone completely mad now that Rafa is only 2 slams away.

Indoor hards is a surface pal. If it played like outdoors then Nadal wouldn't suck so bad indoors. I mean the guy doesn't have a YEC. Even Dimitrov and Zverev have one

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Indoor hards is a surface pal. If it played like outdoors then Nadal wouldn't suck so bad indoors. I mean the guy doesn't have a YEC. Even Dimitrov and Zverev have one

And Mahut has won the Olympics gold but not Federer. Even more embarrassing.

Rafa barely plays the latter part of the season because it's irrelevant. The season pretty much is pointless after the USO. B-)

Yet he still has reached 2 finals at the YEC and beat Federer there too.

Go to sleep.

 

[DarthFed]

And Mahut has won the Olympics gold but not Federer. Even more embarrassing.

Rafa barely plays the latter part of the season because it's irrelevant. The season pretty much is pointless after the USO. B-)

Yet he still has reached 2 finals at the YEC and beat Federer there too.

Go to sleep.

2 finals at YEC, wow what a resume :lulz2:. Nadal has played YEC many more times than Roger has played the Olympics. Also, Roger has proved himself on the surfaces the Olympics were held, Rafa has not proved himself on indoors without his precious high bounce. It clearly means a lot to him too, as he and his uncle complain that they don't rotate YEC to include clay surfaces.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

2 finals at YEC, wow what a resume :lulz2:. Nadal has played YEC many more times than Roger has played the Olympics. Also, Roger has proved himself on the surfaces the Olympics were held, Rafa has not proved himself on indoors without his precious high bounce. It clearly means a lot to him too, as he and his uncle complain that they don't rotate YEC to include clay surfaces.

Grass has an even lower bounce and he’s won it twice. Rafa will win 20 RGs and surpass all of Federer’s career on all surfaces with only clay.

 

[DarthFed]

Grass has an even lower bounce and he’s won it twice. Rafa will win 20 RGs and surpass all of Federer’s career on all surfaces with only clay.

He will barely be able to walk soon with his po wittle knees. Eventually he will have a real serious knee injury not the 2012-2013 variety. All the extracurriculars won't make for longevity after tennis either.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Good point that Rafa has won 2 Majors on each surface, which neither Roger nor Novak has done..

Honestly, no it's not. It's a factual statement I guess, but the actual point it makes is super "meh." Because this argument can easily be refuted with the relative lack of variety in Nadal's major count, so surfaces should never be an argument a Nadal fan should raise.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Long time no see. Nadal should be thankful for the grass at the Wimbledon. With proper grass, I don't think he would even bother entering the tournament.

Just a question to all the experts here, what's "proper grass"?

I know what you'll say, but my question is why 90's grass proper grass?