Will Fed's 2014 Wimby be like Pete's 2002 USO?

[nehmeth]

Let me add that the only top 10 player faced by Novak in this tournament is way past prime Fed.
If the draw holds up, one is expected play a minimum of three top 10 players. The draw does
not always hold up and hence I would not take anything away form Novak's win.
However, people use this "stars aligning", "things lining up" etc only when they want to detract.

Why do Roger fans take umbrage with the "things lining up" statement?? Just a few days ago most were quite pleased at the prospect of facing Novak. :snigger

Personally I have no problem saying things lined up nicely for Novak or any other player. It's not a slight to the player or the fans. For the fans it's usually a sigh of relief isn't it? I doubt that Murray this year would have caused Novak a problem, but it was also nice that he didn't have to face him.

As for not having to face Nadal??? While the h2h is still in Rafa's favor, Novak has beaten him more often than any other player. Roger would have had to face him first though, and we all know how that ends.

 

[Kieran]

Why do Roger fans take umbrage with the "things lining up" statement??

You have to ask? :snigger

 

[DarthFed]

Rafa losing to a nobody at Wimbledon is hardly stars aligning, it is the expected result. I'd say they aligned more for Nole getting to face a young and not mentally ready Dimitrov instead of Murray (who has shown to be great, not terrible, on grass the last few years) but then I don't really believe in the stars aligning theory.

That talk is synonymous with haters and asterisks and we all know who loves to talk about "stars aligning" for Roger 100 times a week.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Nehmeth, as far as I know, 7 people line up in front of you, nicely or not, and if you can beat them , you are the champion.

 

[DarthFed]

Brother, we could talk about stars aligning all day for every great player there's ever been. Stars aligned brilliantly for Nadal at RG 2011 getting a bye in the finals vs. an almost sure fire loss. Stars aligned well for Rafa at Wimbledon 2008 getting a weak and short on confidence Fed who brought little to that match. 2010 USO Rafa played absolutely nobody the entire fortnight and got WTA serving Nole in the finals. Stars lined up brilliantly for Nadal at AO this year and he couldn't even beat Stan Wawrinka. The list goes on and on.

 

[Kieran]

Stars lined up brilliantly for Nadal at AO this year and he couldn't even beat Stan Wawrinka.

Yeah, the stars aligned brilliantly for Rafa against Wawrinka, when his back broke!

Can we at least agree that the stars aligned excellently for Stan...

 

[Backhand_DTL]

Obviously, Roger has lost some of the speed - from lightening fast to faster than most of the rest of the tour. His forehand lets him down in ways it never did during his prime. And when things get to a fifth set lately, his chances of winning take a marked drop.

Roger has had things line up for him before, the 2009 French and Wimbledon titles, 2012 Wimbledon and almost again in 2014. Had Dimitrov had found a way into the finals, who knows.

Maybe Novak goes on a run after this win. Maybe a renewed Roger plays an abbreviated summer hard court schedule and comes into NYC fresh and ready to win his 18th. Maybe Rafa stays stuck at 14 until the French next year. Roger winning 18 wouldn't be bad for the sport, just bad for the guys chasing his record. :snigger

A 2002 type finish for Roger would be beating Rafa at the U.S. Open. I don't know that we will ever see it, but stranger things have happened.

It is all good but I am never buying the "things lining up" argument. I mean look, is anybody saying "things really lined up for Novak this year at Wimby...he did not have to face the defending champ in Murray, he avoided Rafa, who beats him more than he beats Rafa, and he faced a way past his prime Roger in the final."? . I have not heard that once, and for good reason. You play the draw. That's it. If certain players are not good enough to go deep in a tournament, you cannot hold it against a player who was...

Let me add that the only top 10 player faced by Novak in this tournament is way past prime Fed.
If the draw holds up, one is expected play a minimum of three top 10 players. The draw does
not always hold up and hence I would not take anything away form Novak's win.
However, people use this "stars aligning", "things lining up" etc only when they want to detract.

While it is true that Novak's draw opened up I don't think the upsets in his half made his way to the final much easier. Cilic and Berdych probably present a similar degree of difficulty to him, maybe Cilic even believed more in his chances than Berdych would as he already troubled Novak on his better surfaces in Indian Wells and at the French Open this year. Murray near his best would have been the favorite against Novak, but looking at Andy's play against Top 10 or even Top 15 players this year I'm not sure if he had it in him to play well enough in a possible semi final and Dimitrov isn't exactly an easy match-up for Novak either.

So although with Raonic being a Top 10 player I think Federer benefitted more from facing him instead of Nadal than Novak did when having to play Cilic and Dimitrov instead of Berdych and Murray.

But I don't think Roger needs much help from the draw to get far or even win in Wimbledon. Apart from maybe Nadal, who at this point in time seems likely to go out before he can meet Federer, he doesn't need to fear anybody when he serves at the level he did this year.

 

[nehmeth]

Why do Roger fans take umbrage with the "things lining up" statement??

You have to ask? :snigger

Would it be Fed coming back and winning the 4th set, staying close right up til 4-4 in the fifth before succumbing?? When they knew they were facing Novak, the first 7 or 8 pages of posts on the final thread had a lot of happy feddies... they must have thought things had lined up nicely for their boy, or something. When it comes to raising fans hopes, then dashing them and leaving them broken and a little bitter, Fed might be catching up to Nole in the h2h.

 

[Kieran]

Why do Roger fans take umbrage with the "things lining up" statement??

You have to ask? :snigger

Would it be Fed coming back and winning the 4th set, staying close right up til 4-4 in the fifth before succumbing?? When it comes to raising fans hopes, then dashing them and leaving them broken and a little bitter, Fed might be catching up to Nole in the h2h.

Novak is maybe the most difficult to figure out great player I've ever seen. With Rafa and Roger and Pete, you knew where you stood: total effort, total focus. There have been great players who were basket cases at times - including McEnroe and Agassi - but you still knew where you stood with them. But Nole is odd, because he can be the toughest bass turd on the planet - and the wimpiest one. Who knows which one he'll be? We often say that Rafa is a man who depends on emotions, confidence, etc - so what does that say about Nole?

I find him hard to fathom, including his losing the food doctor from his entourage, the guy who made such a difference to him in 2011.

By the way, I didn't notice his parents at the final - they may have been there but i didn't see them - are they okay?

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Why do Roger fans take umbrage with the "things lining up" statement??

You have to ask? :snigger

I will try to answer, as a tennis fan:

When you talk about things lining up, not only you are diminishing the success of a certain player by placing an asterisk next to his win, but you are also ignoring and devaluing an important win by the player (like Kyrgios, Stak, etc) who caused the so called start lining up. It is unfair to everyone except the person who was supposed to win, ironically.

 

[Kieran]

Hey buddy, nobody praised Kyrgios more than me. I just hope that this is the way he always plays. Rosol plays that way for Rafa - if Rosol played like that in all his matches, he's top 20.

But I think Kyrgios has something about him. I praised him to the hilt, my friend...

 

[nehmeth]

Why do Roger fans take umbrage with the "things lining up" statement??

You have to ask? :snigger

I will try to answer, as a tennis fan:

When you talk about things lining up, not only you are diminishing the success of a certain player by placing an asterisk next to his win, but you are also ignoring and devaluing an important win by the player (like Kyrgios, Stak, etc) who caused the so called start lining up. It is unfair to everyone except the person who was supposed to win, ironically.

Sorry about that Murat, but I disagree. You're having a knee jerk reaction from a lot of past attacks on your boy. There are match up issues with each player and to say that things lined up well, is to say my player avoided someone who has proven troublesome in the past.

I like DP and never want to see him injured, but was I relieved knowing he wouldn't be in Novak's part of the draw? Damn straight. After their semi last year, Nole had NOTHING left in the tank. Murray was nervous and missing a lot of first serves early on and my boy was netting the Murray's 2nd serves in the final! :nono

When I wrote that things lining up in my initial post, I did not mean to slight Roger at all.

36 of the last 38 majors have been won by the big 4. Britbox and I both wrote how anyone outside of them who wanted to win a slam had to go through at least 2 or 3 of them to win. For Fed or Ralf to lose early at Wimby the past few years made things a little easier for the other guys trying to break through... is it wrong to say things lined up or that the draw played out in their favor a little? In my opinion, no.

 

[DarthFed]

Stars lined up brilliantly for Nadal at AO this year and he couldn't even beat Stan Wawrinka.

Yeah, the stars aligned brilliantly for Rafa against Wawrinka, when his back broke!

Can we at least agree that the stars aligned excellently for Stan...

Last I checked he was also down a set and break before that happened...to STAN WAWRINKA...

 

[Kieran]

Stars lined up brilliantly for Nadal at AO this year and he couldn't even beat Stan Wawrinka.

Yeah, the stars aligned brilliantly for Rafa against Wawrinka, when his back broke!

Can we at least agree that the stars aligned excellently for Stan...

Last I checked he was also down a set and break before that happened...to STAN WAWRINKA...

Em...I'm just watching Federer against Baghdatis, the 2006 Oz final. Currently, Wodger is a set and 2-0 down in the second, saving bp's. No need to watch any more, I think Baghdatis musta won this one, from memory... :angel:

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Why do Roger fans take umbrage with the "things lining up" statement??

You have to ask? :snigger

I will try to answer, as a tennis fan:

When you talk about things lining up, not only you are diminishing the success of a certain player by placing an asterisk next to his win, but you are also ignoring and devaluing an important win by the player (like Kyrgios, Stak, etc) who caused the so called start lining up. It is unfair to everyone except the person who was supposed to win, ironically.

Sorry about that Murat, but I disagree. You're having a knee jerk reaction from a lot of past attacks on your boy. There are match up issues with each player and to say that things lined up well, is to say my player avoided someone who has proven troublesome in the past.

I like DP and never want to see him injured, but was I relieved knowing he wouldn't be in Novak's part of the draw? Damn straight. After their semi last year, Nole had NOTHING left in the tank. Murray was nervous and missing a lot of first serves early on and my boy was netting the Murray's 2nd serves in the final! :nono

When I wrote that things lining up in my initial post, I did not mean to slight Roger at all.

36 of the last 38 majors have been won by the big 4. Britbox and I both wrote how anyone outside of them who wanted to win a slam had to go through at least 2 or 3 of them to win. For Fed or Ralf to lose early at Wimby the past few years made things a little easier for the other guys trying to break through... is it wrong to say things lined up or that the draw played out in their favor a little? In my opinion, no.

Ah, but that is different. If you are still giving credit where it is due, it is fine. There is nothing wrong with wanting an easier (perceived, because you never know...ask Rafa, Roger, anyone...) path for your guy...Sure. As long as , at the end, you are not asterisking someone.

 

[DarthFed]

Stars lined up brilliantly for Nadal at AO this year and he couldn't even beat Stan Wawrinka.

Yeah, the stars aligned brilliantly for Rafa against Wawrinka, when his back broke!

Can we at least agree that the stars aligned excellently for Stan...

Last I checked he was also down a set and break before that happened...to STAN WAWRINKA...

Em...I'm just watching Federer against Baghdatis, the 2006 Oz final. Currently, Wodger is a set and 2-0 down in the second, saving bp's. No need to watch any more, I think Baghdatis musta won this one, from memory... :angel:

Yes, he did pull out the win, how did Rafa fare again? Must have been bad luck, "stars aligning" against him.

 

[Kieran]

Stars lined up brilliantly for Nadal at AO this year and he couldn't even beat Stan Wawrinka.

Yeah, the stars aligned brilliantly for Rafa against Wawrinka, when his back broke!

Can we at least agree that the stars aligned excellently for Stan...

Last I checked he was also down a set and break before that happened...to STAN WAWRINKA...

Em...I'm just watching Federer against Baghdatis, the 2006 Oz final. Currently, Wodger is a set and 2-0 down in the second, saving bp's. No need to watch any more, I think Baghdatis musta won this one, from memory... :angel:

Yes, he did pull out the win, how did Rafa fare again? Must have been bad luck, "stars aligning" against him.

Well, we'll never know, that's the stage his back went and he could no longer compete. Unfortunate for him, and fortunate for Stan...

 

[DarthFed]

So we shouldn't give him credit for something he couldn't do, ie beating the likes of Stan Wawrinka in the AO final.

 

[Kieran]

So we shouldn't give him credit for something he couldn't do, ie beating the likes of Stan Wawrinka in the AO final.

I always give Stan credit for that, but once Rafa's back went, there was no way he could win the match. I've already shown you that being up a set and break against a great player is no guarantee of winning. In a five set match, being up two sets is no guarantee of winning.

Stan might still have won. He might not have. Rafa's back went - and game over...