Who Owns Each Slam - Trophy Name Change?

[Fiero425]

Who owns each Major, worth changing the name of the trophy because of their dominance? Who do you think should have the honor and why? (Off the top of my head)

Australian Open for the men is owned by Novak "Nole" Djokovic: Not only winning 6 (now) so far, but taking 3 straight3! No one's done that in the Open era!

For the ladies, I guess you should give it to Margaret Smith Court, but for many years, the top players in the world didn't even bother going "down under" so she picked up an easy 11 titles with a huge psychological edge over Evonne Goolagong!
----------------
French Open was owned by Bjorn Borg since the 80's with 6 titles, but Rafa Nadal has overtaken him with 9 titles

For the Ladies, Chris Evert is Queen of clay with 7 titles!
----------------
Wimbledon had Bjorn Borg as the apparent King, but Roger Federer not only took 5 straight, he has 2 more titles to have a total of 7!

Without a doubt Martina Navratilova reigns supreme on grass taking 9 singles titles: 5 straight ('82-'87) often without losing a set!
----------------
US Open had several dominant figures with McEnroe, Connors winning on 3 surfaces, and Lendl getting to 8 straight finals, but again Roger Federer dominated with 5 straight titles! This is why he's the GOAT with 1 FO & 4 AO's!

I guess you have to rename the trophy to Chris Evert due to her winning 6 titles on 2 surfaces: 3 on clay and 3 on HC!

 

[DarthFed]

I still put Pete a little ahead of Fed at Wimbledon. I just think he was better on grass and it is also a big deal that he was 7 of 7 in the finals. I'd take Roger at the USO for similar reasons, best I've seen there and 5 straight. If he wins another slam it will be there. RG is obvious and AO you could argue a few but I'd take Nole there. It will be a moot point when he wins again and I think he wins at least 2 more there.

 

[shawnbm]

Australian Open--Roy Emerson or Ken Rosewall--Novak is third pick--Margaret Court for the ladies
French Open--Rafael Nadal and Chrissie Evert--Borg is substitute for Rafa; Steffi for Chrissie
Wimbledon--Pete Sampras or Roger Federer (probably Pete) and McEnroe is third--Martina Navratilova for the ladies
US Open--Jimmy Connors; Roger Federer is second choice--for the ladies, Chrissie Evert or Steffi Graf

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

feds record is better than Sampras at Wimbledon..Federer reached an extra final while Sampras lost early...'Fedbledon'.

fed won 5 in a row at the usa open so he owns that one too

rafa at French....and someone somewhere at the Australian, I dunno.

 

[Moxie]

Australian Open--Roy Emerson or Ken Rosewall--Novak is third pick--Margaret Court for the ladies
French Open--Rafael Nadal and Chrissie Evert--Borg is substitute for Rafa; Steffi for Chrissie
Wimbledon--Pete Sampras or Roger Federer (probably Pete) and McEnroe is third--Martina Navratilova for the ladies
US Open--Jimmy Connors; Roger Federer is second choice--for the ladies, Chrissie Evert or Steffi Graf

I don't see why any trophy needs to be named for a winning champion, though I kind of like Rosewall and Court for the Aussie one.

"Coupe de Mousquetaires"...what could be better than that, and I don't care how many times Rafa wins it. And "Coupe Suzanne Lenglen"...why would it be better if it were named for Chris Evert? FO gets the tip of the cap for the best names, already.

Wimbledon? Oh, stop. It is what it is, and doesn't need to be more.

USO: If you had to, I would name the women's trophy for Martina Navratilova, since the tennis center is already named for Billie Jean, and so for general contribution to the women's game, and the US women's game. If I had to name the men's trophy for a player, I'd name it for John McEnroe. I know people would complain, and say Pete, maybe, but, same as Martina, for contribution to the game, and for being a NY boy, I'd say Johnny Mac. If you don't like those, I say leave them without a name.

 

[Kieran]

I'm not sure Johnny Mac's contribution was always a positive one, but I like your thinking!

The Venus Rose dish, that's a gorgeous title. The Wimbledon men's title is the best:

"The All England Lawn Tennis Club Single Handed Championship of the World".

It's bizarre that they put in the "single handed" bit - but it adds to the authority of the thing.

 

[shawnbm]

Australian Open--Roy Emerson or Ken Rosewall--Novak is third pick--Margaret Court for the ladies
French Open--Rafael Nadal and Chrissie Evert--Borg is substitute for Rafa; Steffi for Chrissie
Wimbledon--Pete Sampras or Roger Federer (probably Pete) and McEnroe is third--Martina Navratilova for the ladies
US Open--Jimmy Connors; Roger Federer is second choice--for the ladies, Chrissie Evert or Steffi Graf

I don't see why any trophy needs to be named for a winning champion, though I kind of like Rosewall and Court for the Aussie one.

"Coupe de Mousquetaires"...what could be better than that, and I don't care how many times Rafa wins it. And "Coupe Suzanne Lenglen"...why would it be better if it were named for Chris Evert? FO gets the tip of the cap for the best names, already.

Wimbledon? Oh, stop. It is what it is, and doesn't need to be more.

USO: If you had to, I would name the women's trophy for Martina Navratilova, since the tennis center is already named for Billie Jean, and so for general contribution to the women's game, and the US women's game. If I had to name the men's trophy for a player, I'd name it for John McEnroe. I know people would complain, and say Pete, maybe, but, same as Martina, for contribution to the game, and for being a NY boy, I'd say Johnny Mac. If you don't like those, I say leave them without a name.

Agree with you that there is no need to re-name any of the trophies, but I believe the call of the OP was to get a little something going just to get something going on which players have dominated a major such that the trophy could be named for them. I like the reason you mentioned Mac as the name of the trophy in New York. Otherwise, leaving the names as they are--especially at SW19 as Kieran pointed otu--is the way to go.

 

[RJD11]

Who owns each Major, worth changing the name of the trophy because of their dominance? Who do you think should have the honor and why? (Off the top of my head)

Australian Open for the men is owned by Novak "Nole" Djokovic: Not only winning 4 so far, but taking the last 3! No one's done that in the Open era!

For the ladies, I guess you should give it to Margaret Smith Court, but for many years, the top players in the world didn't even bother going "down under" so she picked up an easy 11 titles with a huge psychological edge over Evonne Goolagong!
----------------
French Open was owned by Bjorn Borg since the 80's with 6 titles, but Rafa Nadal has overtaken him with 8 titles

For the Ladies, Chris Evert is Queen of clay with 7 titles!
----------------
Wimbledon had Bjorn Borg as the apparent King, but Roger Federer not only took 5 straight, he has 2 more titles to have a total of 7!

Without a doubt Martina Navratilova reigns supreme on grass taking 9 singles titles: 5 straight ('82-'87) often without losing a set!
----------------
US Open had several dominant figures with McEnroe, Connors winning on 3 surfaces, and Lendl getting to 8 straight finals, but again Roger Federer dominated with 5 straight titles! This is why he's the GOAT with 1 FO & 4 AO's!

I guess you have to rename the trophy to Chris Evert due to her winning 6 titles on 2 surfaces: 4 on clay and 2 on HC!

Wimbledon- Someone named Williams has 10 Wimbledon titles

and the trophy is already named after one of them.

 

[Fiero425]

Who owns each Major, worth changing the name of the trophy because of their dominance? Who do you think should have the honor and why? (Off the top of my head)

Australian Open for the men is owned by Novak "Nole" Djokovic: Not only winning 4 so far, but taking the last 3! No one's done that in the Open era!

For the ladies, I guess you should give it to Margaret Smith Court, but for many years, the top players in the world didn't even bother going "down under" so she picked up an easy 11 titles with a huge psychological edge over Evonne Goolagong!
----------------
French Open was owned by Bjorn Borg since the 80's with 6 titles, but Rafa Nadal has overtaken him with 8 titles

For the Ladies, Chris Evert is Queen of clay with 7 titles!
----------------
Wimbledon had Bjorn Borg as the apparent King, but Roger Federer not only took 5 straight, he has 2 more titles to have a total of 7!

Without a doubt Martina Navratilova reigns supreme on grass taking 9 singles titles: 5 straight ('82-'87) often without losing a set!
----------------
US Open had several dominant figures with McEnroe, Connors winning on 3 surfaces, and Lendl getting to 8 straight finals, but again Roger Federer dominated with 5 straight titles! This is why he's the GOAT with 1 FO & 4 AO's!

I guess you have to rename the trophy to Chris Evert due to her winning 6 titles on 2 surfaces: 4 on clay and 2 on HC!

Wimbledon- Someone named Williams has 10 Wimbledon titles

and the trophy is already named after one of them.

Dream on! Navratilova would make quick work out of either of them in her day! She was the consummate grass player when the court was chewed up!

 

[RJD11]

Who owns each Major, worth changing the name of the trophy because of their dominance? Who do you think should have the honor and why? (Off the top of my head)

Australian Open for the men is owned by Novak "Nole" Djokovic: Not only winning 4 so far, but taking the last 3! No one's done that in the Open era!

For the ladies, I guess you should give it to Margaret Smith Court, but for many years, the top players in the world didn't even bother going "down under" so she picked up an easy 11 titles with a huge psychological edge over Evonne Goolagong!
----------------
French Open was owned by Bjorn Borg since the 80's with 6 titles, but Rafa Nadal has overtaken him with 8 titles

For the Ladies, Chris Evert is Queen of clay with 7 titles!
----------------
Wimbledon had Bjorn Borg as the apparent King, but Roger Federer not only took 5 straight, he has 2 more titles to have a total of 7!

Without a doubt Martina Navratilova reigns supreme on grass taking 9 singles titles: 5 straight ('82-'87) often without losing a set!
----------------
US Open had several dominant figures with McEnroe, Connors winning on 3 surfaces, and Lendl getting to 8 straight finals, but again Roger Federer dominated with 5 straight titles! This is why he's the GOAT with 1 FO & 4 AO's!

I guess you have to rename the trophy to Chris Evert due to her winning 6 titles on 2 surfaces: 4 on clay and 2 on HC!

Wimbledon- Someone named Williams has 10 Wimbledon titles

and the trophy is already named after one of them.

Dream on! Navratilova would make quick work out of either of them in her day! She was the consummate grass player when the court was chewed up!

Martina would not beat Serena W. Her chip and charge would quickly become

Chip and Duck

 

[Fiero425]

Who owns each Major, worth changing the name of the trophy because of their dominance? Who do you think should have the honor and why? (Off the top of my head)

Australian Open for the men is owned by Novak "Nole" Djokovic: Not only winning 4 so far, but taking the last 3! No one's done that in the Open era!

For the ladies, I guess you should give it to Margaret Smith Court, but for many years, the top players in the world didn't even bother going "down under" so she picked up an easy 11 titles with a huge psychological edge over Evonne Goolagong!
----------------
French Open was owned by Bjorn Borg since the 80's with 6 titles, but Rafa Nadal has overtaken him with 8 titles

For the Ladies, Chris Evert is Queen of clay with 7 titles!
----------------
Wimbledon had Bjorn Borg as the apparent King, but Roger Federer not only took 5 straight, he has 2 more titles to have a total of 7!

Without a doubt Martina Navratilova reigns supreme on grass taking 9 singles titles: 5 straight ('82-'87) often without losing a set!
----------------
US Open had several dominant figures with McEnroe, Connors winning on 3 surfaces, and Lendl getting to 8 straight finals, but again Roger Federer dominated with 5 straight titles! This is why he's the GOAT with 1 FO & 4 AO's!

I guess you have to rename the trophy to Chris Evert due to her winning 6 titles on 2 surfaces: 4 on clay and 2 on HC!

Wimbledon- Someone named Williams has 10 Wimbledon titles

and the trophy is already named after one of them.

Dream on! Navratilova would make quick work out of either of them in her day! She was the consummate grass player when the court was chewed up!

Martina would not beat Serena W. Her chip and charge would quickly become

Chip and Duck

Martina already had to deal with a player who tried to take the cover off the ball! Her name was Steffi Graf! I just watched the '87 USO where Graf was at the height of her powers and Martina just worked over her backhand, chipping and charging, and took it in straights! The same would occur with either Williams sisters! Few can deal with that kind of relentless pressure! If it was so easy, neither would lose a match; so get over it! I can't even give them credit for being dominant backcourters! It took 10 years to acquire her 2nd FO and Venus only got that once sniff of a final in '03! If they were that great, they'd have more titles and wouldn't have such awful results on clay! You're debating the wrong person! I watched Martina from day one and saw how superior her career has been in comparison to all the so called greats; incl. Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, and all the others!

 

[RJD11]

Who owns each Major, worth changing the name of the trophy because of their dominance? Who do you think should have the honor and why? (Off the top of my head)

Australian Open for the men is owned by Novak "Nole" Djokovic: Not only winning 4 so far, but taking the last 3! No one's done that in the Open era!

For the ladies, I guess you should give it to Margaret Smith Court, but for many years, the top players in the world didn't even bother going "down under" so she picked up an easy 11 titles with a huge psychological edge over Evonne Goolagong!
----------------
French Open was owned by Bjorn Borg since the 80's with 6 titles, but Rafa Nadal has overtaken him with 8 titles

For the Ladies, Chris Evert is Queen of clay with 7 titles!
----------------
Wimbledon had Bjorn Borg as the apparent King, but Roger Federer not only took 5 straight, he has 2 more titles to have a total of 7!

Without a doubt Martina Navratilova reigns supreme on grass taking 9 singles titles: 5 straight ('82-'87) often without losing a set!
----------------
US Open had several dominant figures with McEnroe, Connors winning on 3 surfaces, and Lendl getting to 8 straight finals, but again Roger Federer dominated with 5 straight titles! This is why he's the GOAT with 1 FO & 4 AO's!

I guess you have to rename the trophy to Chris Evert due to her winning 6 titles on 2 surfaces: 4 on clay and 2 on HC!

Wimbledon- Someone named Williams has 10 Wimbledon titles

and the trophy is already named after one of them.

Dream on! Navratilova would make quick work out of either of them in her day! She was the consummate grass player when the court was chewed up!

Martina would not beat Serena W. Her chip and charge would quickly become

Chip and Duck

Martina already had to deal with a player who tried to take the cover off the ball! Her name was Steffi Graf! I just watched the '87 USO where Graf was at the height of her powers and Martina just worked over her backhand, chipping and charging, and took it in straights! The same would occur with either Williams sisters! Few can deal with that kind of relentless pressure! If it was so easy, neither would lose a match; so get over it! I can't even give them credit for being dominant backcourters! It took 10 years to acquire her 2nd FO and Venus only got that once sniff of a final in '03! If they were that great, they'd have more titles and wouldn't have such awful results on clay! You're debating the wrong person! I watched Martina from day one and saw how superior her career has been in comparison to all the so called greats; incl. Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, and all the others!

You're saying Graf hits as hard as Serena? I don't see her name on the
top Serve speed list. And I saw a match with Martina vs Evert where
in the first set Martina chip and charged 41 times. Chrissie, playing a
baseline game for the most part and has no power to speak of, won
21 of those points. That game will not work the way Serena returns
powder puff serves. Martina would chip and before she takes 2 steps
toward the net the ball will have passed her. And on Serena's serve
Martina would do what every other player for the last 15 years have
done. Stand there a watch the aces go by. And it's not just the aces.
They have never shown the stats for how many of Serena's serves
were hit but not returned or resulted in a weak return for her to put away
there are many more of those than aces. And in 2012 Wimb she had
102 aces. And Yes Martina's career was magnificent and will never
be duplicated. She deserves all credit. But that was against the players
of her time. I have seen King, Nav. Evert, Graf etc play. Evert was
my Fav player back then. And I have never seen a player better than
Serena at her best. Also She ain't that bad not at her best. Ask ARad
who is to me the best player out there who has that throwback sort
of game. A smart and crafty player. Look what happened in Toronto
when Serena was not at her best. Her Serve was not working well and
her FH was way off. She won anyway.

 

[Fiero425]

Wimbledon- Someone named Williams has 10 Wimbledon titles

and the trophy is already named after one of them.

Dream on! Navratilova would make quick work out of either of them in her day! She was the consummate grass player when the court was chewed up!

Martina would not beat Serena W. Her chip and charge would quickly become

Chip and Duck

Martina already had to deal with a player who tried to take the cover off the ball! Her name was Steffi Graf! I just watched the '87 USO where Graf was at the height of her powers and Martina just worked over her backhand, chipping and charging, and took it in straights! The same would occur with either Williams sisters! Few can deal with that kind of relentless pressure! If it was so easy, neither would lose a match; so get over it! I can't even give them credit for being dominant backcourters! It took 10 years to acquire her 2nd FO and Venus only got that once sniff of a final in '03! If they were that great, they'd have more titles and wouldn't have such awful results on clay! You're debating the wrong person! I watched Martina from day one and saw how superior her career has been in comparison to all the so called greats; incl. Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, and all the others!

You're saying Graf hits as hard as Serena? I don't see her name on the
top Serve speed list. And I saw a match with Martina vs Evert where
in the first set Martina chip and charged 41 times. Chrissie, playing a
baseline game for the most part and has no power to speak of, won
21 of those points. ...And on Serena's serve
Martina would do what every other player for the last 15 years have
done. ... Look what happened in Toronto
when Serena was not at her best. Her Serve was not working well and
her FH was way off. She won anyway.

As I said, if Serena and Venus were so dominant, why don't they have more titles; majors? It's obvious they had bad days like everybody else! Many people have lauded the serves of both ladies, but no one double faults as much as Venus when it comes down to it! It's bad technique that I've offererd to help her with sometime, but it's almost over for her! lol! Serena thinks she can muscle the ball in on command and she's just delusional, double faulting 2 or 3 times in a row! She'd have passed all the ladies ahead of her if she were as unbeatable as you're portending! Come on, can't you admit even that?

 

[shawnbm]

Serena v. Seles or Graf would be neat to see. That is, if one is looking for "power-ball" tennis, then those would be good ones. Venus could be thrown in there when she was at her peak.

 

[RJD11]

Dream on! Navratilova would make quick work out of either of them in her day! She was the consummate grass player when the court was chewed up!

Martina would not beat Serena W. Her chip and charge would quickly become

Chip and Duck

Martina already had to deal with a player who tried to take the cover off the ball! Her name was Steffi Graf! I just watched the '87 USO where Graf was at the height of her powers and Martina just worked over her backhand, chipping and charging, and took it in straights! The same would occur with either Williams sisters! Few can deal with that kind of relentless pressure! If it was so easy, neither would lose a match; so get over it! I can't even give them credit for being dominant backcourters! It took 10 years to acquire her 2nd FO and Venus only got that once sniff of a final in '03! If they were that great, they'd have more titles and wouldn't have such awful results on clay! You're debating the wrong person! I watched Martina from day one and saw how superior her career has been in comparison to all the so called greats; incl. Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, and all the others!

You're saying Graf hits as hard as Serena? I don't see her name on the
top Serve speed list. And I saw a match with Martina vs Evert where
in the first set Martina chip and charged 41 times. Chrissie, playing a
baseline game for the most part and has no power to speak of, won
21 of those points. ...And on Serena's serve
Martina would do what every other player for the last 15 years have
done. ... Look what happened in Toronto
when Serena was not at her best. Her Serve was not working well and
her FH was way off. She won anyway.

As I said, if Serena and Venus were so dominant, why don't they have more titles; majors? It's obvious they have bad days like everybody else! Many people have lauded the serves of both ladies, but no one double faults as much as Venus when it comes down to it! It's bad technique that I've offererd to help her with sometime, but it's almost over for her! lol! Serena thinks she can muscle the ball in on command and she's just delusional, double faulting 2 or 3 times in a row! She'd have passed all the ladies ahead of her if she were as unbeatable as you're portending! Come on, can't you admit even that?

Of course I can admit that. And have on more than one occasion. Serena
is human. Subject to all the foibles that entails. She has bad days like
everyone else. I think its even worse now with the pressure of history
on her shoulders. But I would say " at her best " she is as close to
being unbeatable as I have ever seen. And I am not the only 1 saying it
I have recently heard Shriver, Evert, Stubbs, McEnroe and a few others
say it. And they say " at her best " with that statement also. But she doesn't
play " at her Best " every match. That's why she has 111 losses. And I can
assure you Nav was not always " at her best " She had 219 losses.
Come on Fiero, can you admit that when Serena's game is firing on all
cylinders She would win vs any player out there today?

And you know as well as I do that Serena and Venus to a lesser extent
did not put all their focus on tennis. Fashion, acting, hanging out with
the Kardashians etc. I think if Serena had focused on tennis 24/7 when
she was younger the way that Nav, Evert, Graf etal did We might not
be having this conversation about her catching up to those players. She
might have done that some time ago.

I also think had She done that She might not still be playing. Injury,
burnout etc. The thing is She is focused more now and wants to set
her place in history now. She knows time is running out so its more
pressure now. That can cause these lapses when She DFs or her FH
goes off. Through frustration. Trying to hard. I wonder what her stats
would be if She had the dedication in her youth like she has now.

 

[Fiero425]

Martina would not beat Serena W. Her chip and charge would quickly become

Chip and Duck

Martina already had to deal with a player who tried to take the cover off the ball! Her name was Steffi Graf! I just watched the '87 USO where Graf was at the height of her powers and Martina just worked over her backhand, chipping and charging, and took it in straights! The same would occur with either Williams sisters! Few can deal with that kind of relentless pressure! If it was so easy, neither would lose a match; so get over it! I can't even give them credit for being dominant backcourters! It took 10 years to acquire her 2nd FO and Venus only got that once sniff of a final in '03! If they were that great, they'd have more titles and wouldn't have such awful results on clay! You're debating the wrong person! I watched Martina from day one and saw how superior her career has been in comparison to all the so called greats; incl. Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, and all the others!

You're saying Graf hits as hard as Serena? I don't see her name on the
top Serve speed list. And I saw a match with Martina vs Evert where
in the first set Martina chip and charged 41 times. Chrissie, playing a
baseline game for the most part and has no power to speak of, won
21 of those points. ...And on Serena's serve
Martina would do what every other player for the last 15 years have
done. ... Look what happened in Toronto
when Serena was not at her best. Her Serve was not working well and
her FH was way off. She won anyway.

As I said, if Serena and Venus were so dominant, why don't they have more titles; majors? It's obvious they have bad days like everybody else! Many people have lauded the serves of both ladies, but no one double faults as much as Venus when it comes down to it! It's bad technique that I've offererd to help her with sometime, but it's almost over for her! lol! Serena thinks she can muscle the ball in on command and she's just delusional, double faulting 2 or 3 times in a row! She'd have passed all the ladies ahead of her if she were as unbeatable as you're portending! Come on, can't you admit even that?

Of course I can admit that. And have on more than one occasion. Serena
is human. Subject to all the foibles that entails. She has bad days like
everyone else. I think its even worse now with the pressure of history
on her shoulders. But I would say " at her best " she is as close to
being unbeatable as I have ever seen. And I am not the only 1 saying it
I have recently heard Shriver, Evert, Stubbs, McEnroe and a few others
say it. And they say " at her best " with that statement also. But she doesn't
play " at her Best " every match. That's why she has 111 losses. And I can
assure you Nav was not always " at her best " She had 219 losses.
Come on Fiero, can you admit that when Serena's game is firing on all
cylinders She would win vs any player out there today?

And you know as well as I do that Serena and Venus to a lesser extent
did not put all their focus on tennis. Fashion, acting, hanging out with
the Kardashians etc. I think if Serena had focused on tennis 24/7 when
she was younger the way that Nav, Evert, Graf etal did We might not
be having this conversation about her catching up to those players. She
might have done that some time ago.

I also think had She done that She might not still be playing. Injury,
burnout etc. The thing is She is focused more now and wants to set
her place in history now. She knows time is running out so its more
pressure now. That can cause these lapses when She DFs or her FH
goes off. Through frustration. Trying too hard. I wonder what her stats
would be if She had the dedication in her youth like she has now.

Should of, would of, could of; all moot now since she didn't focus on her tennis 24/7! She shouldn't be surprised she has so many detractors because of it! Both were negligent trying to do more than make history and now they're paying for it! Venus is truly embarrassing herself, going into tourneys unseeded, but still going down to players I don't even know! After all these years, Serena still hasn't reached 600 wins! That's unbelievable in comparison to the other greats who have over 1000! She can't possibly catch them and she won't last like Navratilova who played well until she was almost 40! If all is clicking for Serena, she's the best today, but things aren't all clicking for her! She's had appalling losses with leads, breaks, and the like which are hard to overlook! That's why you try to get those wins at a younger age due to the mental side taking over later in life! Please don't go to the "if" card; we're talking facts, reality, and NOW! There's no sense talking about what could have been! Martina and Chris actually did what they coukl and have no regrets! Serena and Venus have plenty of them now and they're paying for it historically! They could have done so much more and should have been the best; both of them! OBTW, thanks for the banter! Ya got me going and I posted a lot! I've slowed down for a while! You've been immortalized on my personal blog forever: http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2013/07/whats-up-topics-11-entries-from-813-on.html?showComment=1376339338119#c4200667323031479951

 

[RJD11]

Martina already had to deal with a player who tried to take the cover off the ball! Her name was Steffi Graf! I just watched the '87 USO where Graf was at the height of her powers and Martina just worked over her backhand, chipping and charging, and took it in straights! The same would occur with either Williams sisters! Few can deal with that kind of relentless pressure! If it was so easy, neither would lose a match; so get over it! I can't even give them credit for being dominant backcourters! It took 10 years to acquire her 2nd FO and Venus only got that once sniff of a final in '03! If they were that great, they'd have more titles and wouldn't have such awful results on clay! You're debating the wrong person! I watched Martina from day one and saw how superior her career has been in comparison to all the so called greats; incl. Margaret Court, Chris Evert, Steffi Graf, Monica Seles, and all the others!

You're saying Graf hits as hard as Serena? I don't see her name on the
top Serve speed list. And I saw a match with Martina vs Evert where
in the first set Martina chip and charged 41 times. Chrissie, playing a
baseline game for the most part and has no power to speak of, won
21 of those points. ...And on Serena's serve
Martina would do what every other player for the last 15 years have
done. ... Look what happened in Toronto
when Serena was not at her best. Her Serve was not working well and
her FH was way off. She won anyway.

As I said, if Serena and Venus were so dominant, why don't they have more titles; majors? It's obvious they have bad days like everybody else! Many people have lauded the serves of both ladies, but no one double faults as much as Venus when it comes down to it! It's bad technique that I've offererd to help her with sometime, but it's almost over for her! lol! Serena thinks she can muscle the ball in on command and she's just delusional, double faulting 2 or 3 times in a row! She'd have passed all the ladies ahead of her if she were as unbeatable as you're portending! Come on, can't you admit even that?

Of course I can admit that. And have on more than one occasion. Serena
is human. Subject to all the foibles that entails. She has bad days like
everyone else. I think its even worse now with the pressure of history
on her shoulders. But I would say " at her best " she is as close to
being unbeatable as I have ever seen. And I am not the only 1 saying it
I have recently heard Shriver, Evert, Stubbs, McEnroe and a few others
say it. And they say " at her best " with that statement also. But she doesn't
play " at her Best " every match. That's why she has 111 losses. And I can
assure you Nav was not always " at her best " She had 219 losses.
Come on Fiero, can you admit that when Serena's game is firing on all
cylinders She would win vs any player out there today?

And you know as well as I do that Serena and Venus to a lesser extent
did not put all their focus on tennis. Fashion, acting, hanging out with
the Kardashians etc. I think if Serena had focused on tennis 24/7 when
she was younger the way that Nav, Evert, Graf etal did We might not
be having this conversation about her catching up to those players. She
might have done that some time ago.

I also think had She done that She might not still be playing. Injury,
burnout etc. The thing is She is focused more now and wants to set
her place in history now. She knows time is running out so its more
pressure now. That can cause these lapses when She DFs or her FH
goes off. Through frustration. Trying too hard. I wonder what her stats
would be if She had the dedication in her youth like she has now.

Should of, would of, could of; all moot now since she didn't focus on her tennis 24/7! She shouldn't be surprosed she has so many detractors because of it! Both were negligent trying to do more than make history and now they're paying for it! Venus is truly embarrassing herself, going into tourneys unseeded, but still going down to players I don't even know! After all these years, Serena still hasn't reached 600 wins! That's unbelievable in comparison to the other greats who have over 1000! She can't possibly catch them and she won't last like Navratilova who played well until she was almost 40! If all is clicking for Serena, she's the best today, but things are all clicking for her! She's had appalling losses with leads, breaks, and the like which are hard to overlook! That's why you try to get those wins at a younger age due to the mental side taking over later in life! Please don't go to the "if" card; we're talking facts, reality, and NOW! There's no sense talking about what could have been! Martina and Chris actually did what they coukl and have no regrets! Serena and Venus have plenty of them now and they're paying for it historically! They could have done so much more and should have been the best; both of them! OBTW, thanks for the banter! Ya got me going and I posted a lot! I've slowed down for a while! You've been immortalized on my personal blog forever: http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2013/07/whats-up-topics-11-entries-from-813-on.html?showComment=1376339338119#c4200667323031479951

Wait a minute Fiero!

1. You better look again ...Serena HAS over 600 wins

2. What is all this about Serena's appalling losses. You

do know She has only lost 3 matches this year. And

injury played a part in 2 of them. Even with sketchy

play at times She still wins the vast majority of the

time. In yesterdays final She won 6 - 2 6 - 0 not

playing her best Vs a player who knocked off several

top players and was hot. I'd say that was exemplary

and expected of a GOAT

3. I don't know if you got the memo but Venus is

suffering from a debilitating disease that more than

explains her recent play and most likely her play

for the last 7 years. So lighten up on her.

4. Even with the lack of focus in her youth Serena owns

16 Slams and has played some of the most dominating

tennis ever seen over the last 14 years. And She is still

doing it. It only explains the numbers. She is still best

female Tennis player that ever picked up a racquet on

the court. As I have said before Graf and Nav can bring

all of their trophys on court with them and they won't help

them return even 1 of those 120+ mph serves.


I enjoy the banter too just like we used to do over on

the ESPN board. There is not as much of that here on

this board. I'm sure Chelsia misses you.

ahhhh the good ole days.

 

[Fiero425]

You're saying Graf hits as hard as Serena? I don't see her name on the
top Serve speed list. And I saw a match with Martina vs Evert where
in the first set Martina chip and charged 41 times. Chrissie, playing a
baseline game for the most part and has no power to speak of, won
21 of those points. ...And on Serena's serve
Martina would do what every other player for the last 15 years have
done. ... Look what happened in Toronto
when Serena was not at her best. Her Serve was not working well and
her FH was way off. She won anyway.

As I said, if Serena and Venus were so dominant, why don't they have more titles; majors? It's obvious they have bad days like everybody else! Many people have lauded the serves of both ladies, but no one double faults as much as Venus when it comes down to it! It's bad technique that I've offererd to help her with sometime, but it's almost over for her! lol! Serena thinks she can muscle the ball in on command and she's just delusional, double faulting 2 or 3 times in a row! She'd have passed all the ladies ahead of her if she were as unbeatable as you're portending! Come on, can't you admit even that?

Of course I can admit that. And have on more than one occasion. Serena
is human. Subject to all the foibles that entails. She has bad days like
everyone else. I think its even worse now with the pressure of history
on her shoulders. But I would say " at her best " she is as close to
being unbeatable as I have ever seen. And I am not the only 1 saying it
I have recently heard Shriver, Evert, Stubbs, McEnroe and a few others
say it. And they say " at her best " with that statement also. But she doesn't
play " at her Best " every match. That's why she has 111 losses. And I can
assure you Nav was not always " at her best " She had 219 losses.
Come on Fiero, can you admit that when Serena's game is firing on all
cylinders She would win vs any player out there today?

And you know as well as I do that Serena and Venus to a lesser extent
did not put all their focus on tennis. Fashion, acting, hanging out with
the Kardashians etc. I think if Serena had focused on tennis 24/7 when
she was younger the way that Nav, Evert, Graf etal did We might not
be having this conversation about her catching up to those players. She
might have done that some time ago.

I also think had She done that She might not still be playing. Injury,
burnout etc. The thing is She is focused more now and wants to set
her place in history now. She knows time is running out so its more
pressure now. That can cause these lapses when She DFs or her FH
goes off. Through frustration. Trying too hard. I wonder what her stats
would be if She had the dedication in her youth like she has now.

Should of, would of, could of; all moot now since she didn't focus on her tennis 24/7! She shouldn't be surprosed she has so many detractors because of it! Both were negligent trying to do more than make history and now they're paying for it! Venus is truly embarrassing herself, going into tourneys unseeded, but still going down to players I don't even know! After all these years, Serena still hasn't reached 600 wins! That's unbelievable in comparison to the other greats who have over 1000! She can't possibly catch them and she won't last like Navratilova who played well until she was almost 40! If all is clicking for Serena, she's the best today, but things are all clicking for her! She's had appalling losses with leads, breaks, and the like which are hard to overlook! That's why you try to get those wins at a younger age due to the mental side taking over later in life! Please don't go to the "if" card; we're talking facts, reality, and NOW! There's no sense talking about what could have been! Martina and Chris actually did what they coukl and have no regrets! Serena and Venus have plenty of them now and they're paying for it historically! They could have done so much more and should have been the best; both of them! OBTW, thanks for the banter! Ya got me going and I posted a lot! I've slowed down for a while! You've been immortalized on my personal blog forever: http://fiero4251.blogspot.com/2013/07/whats-up-topics-11-entries-from-813-on.html?showComment=1376339338119#c4200667323031479951

Wait a minute Fiero!

1. You better look again ...Serena HAS over 600 wins

2. What is all this about Serena's appalling losses. You

do know She has only lost 3 matches this year. And

injury played a part in 2 of them. Even with sketchy

play at times She still wins the vast majority of the

time. In yesterdays final She won 6 - 2 6 - 0 not

playing her best Vs a player who knocked off several

top players and was hot. I'd say that was exemplary

and expected of a GOAT

3. I don't know if you got the memo but Venus is

suffering from a debilitating disease that more than

explains her recent play and most likely her play

for the last 7 years. So lighten up on her.

4. Even with the lack of focus in her youth Serena owns

16 Slams and has played some of the most dominating

tennis ever seen over the last 14 years. And She is still

doing it. It only explains the numbers. She is still best

female Tennis player that ever picked up a racquet on

the court. As I have said before Graf and Nav can bring

all of their trophys on court with them and they won't help

them return even 1 of those 120+ mph serves.


I enjoy the banter too just like we used to do over on

the ESPN board. There is not as much of that here on

this board. I'm sure Chelsia misses you.

ahhhh the good ole days.

Well I don't miss her or that board! IT was more a venue to insult and belittle people than to be informative and debate issues! This was a great thread! Thanks!

 

[Fiero425]

Any comments now that Serena has tied both Martina and Chris at 18 majors and counting? It really took a lot longer than it should; esp. with how "helter skelter" the WTA has been with retirements, injuries, and a lot of inconsistent play!

 

[jhar26]

Any comments now that Serena has tied both Martina and Chris at 18 majors and counting? It really took a lot longer than it should; esp. with how "helter skelter" the WTA has been with retirements, injuries, and a lot of inconsistent play!

18 is more a symbol than anything else. If Serena would have ended her career with 17 majors I wouldn't have considered her a lesser great than Chris or Martina. And if she has 19 I won't consider her a greater great than them either. The obsession that the tennis community has had since the mid-80's with counting slam titles to the exclusion of anything else to decide on a ranking order of all time greatness has resulted in that current players are now trying to break records that older champions weren't trying to set.

Chris Evert slam count for example could have been in the region of Graf's and perhaps even Court's if she had bothered to compete in all four majors instead of two or three for much of the 70's when she was the best player in the world. She skipped three French Open's in the middle of her 125 winning streak on clay at a time when she was as dominant on that surface (if not more) than Nadal is today. Add those three to the 18 majors she already has and you have 21 already. And there are all those Australian Open's as well. Most of those were won by Evonne Goolagong who was a great player herself, so we can't take for granted that she would have won all of those, but it's not all outrageous to think that Evert would have won at least a few of them.

But even if we for the sake of argument take a best case scenario where Evert would have won 24 or 25 majors it doesn't necessarily make her greater than Serena or Graf or whatever other all time great imo. Once you've reached a certain number you've earned your spot up there on Mount Olympus with the other greats and from that point onwards it becomes too close to call. Besides, we don't have a two month season. There are tournaments other than the majors to consider. And there's winning percentage, consistency, h2h records against your most important contemporaries, and so on. Some things will speak for this ATG, other things will speak for another one. But in the end it's too close to call.