We’ve been through this before

[Nadalfan2013]

We’ve been through this before. Every time one of the big three wins a slam people say that he’s the goat. And then the next time another one of them wins, people jump again on the bandwagon.

At the U.S. Open, the player between the 3 who wins will again be backed to be the goat. If Roger wins it and extends his lead then people will again treat him like God, if Rafa gets #19 then wow he’s back and will end with the record. If Djoko picks it up then he’s again seen as unstoppable.

I think it’s time to just except that all 3 are the goats and have different arguments. It happens over and over that people jump from one to another, depending on the latest thing happening. I expect it to happen over and over and at the end they will probably all have different arguments.

 

[britbox]

It's all about personal perception. My perception right now is that Roger Federer is the GOAT. Some people don't even buy into the concept, others like monfed have hysterics because they are concerned about public perception in their tribal wars, others think other players are the GOAT... the Djokovics, the Nadals... even Laver, Pancho etc...

So, let's just say for a minute that you think Nadal is the GOAT... why would I care? Makes no difference to me or my opinion, or my life. No offence. I don't need a flock of sheep on the Internet to tell me what my opinion should be... I just decide for myself.

 

[Federberg]

Personally I don't believe in GOATs. Doesn't matter what numbers Novak pulls up, I'll always think that

Federer has played the best tennis I've ever seen.

and McEnroe is the most talented player I've ever seen

I'll never be convinced that because players in this era have set a narrative for what constitutes achievement that players in prior eras couldn't have matched them if they had had the same targets. Those guys wilfully missed majors ffs... How can I then define the best by something that wasn't aspired to. Nah bruv...

 

[Horsa]

Can people please consider the names of threads more carefully? When I read the thread name I actually thought someone had done something wrong & 1 or more admins were in a bad mood & laying down the law on something they've laid down the law on before so I thought "Someone's in trouble. I hope it's not me. I'd best read the rules & sort myself out if necessary.".

 

[monfed]

For me Federer is the GOAT gamewise. I haven't seen a more complete player who play any shoot in the book with consummate ease. But mentally he more often than not loses it against a player with good enough ability(like Safin/Delpotro) on the same mental level. So this leaves some doubt whether he is the GOAT. A GOAT doesn't have to be the perfect player with no weaknesses, he just needs to be better than the other ATGs which Federer is.

Yes you can compare eras when one player's game would translate well to other eras. Djokovic , Nadal and Sampras are byproducts of their eras. Put them in another era and they will fail and fail rather miserably.

However, Federer is one such unique player whose game translates to any era that's why he's considered the GOAT. He is the only player among these three who was being touted as the GOAT well before he had the slam record.

 

[monfed]

It's all about personal perception. My perception right now is that Roger Federer is the GOAT. Some people don't even buy into the concept, others like monfed have hysterics because they are concerned about public perception in their tribal wars, others think other players are the GOAT... the Djokovics, the Nadals... even Laver, Pancho etc...

So, let's just say for a minute that you think Nadal is the GOAT... why would I care? Makes no difference to me or my opinion, or my life. No offence. I don't need a flock of sheep on the Internet to tell me what my opinion should be... I just decide for myself.

But anyone can take your stance and say "it's my opinion so I don't care".

GOAT is not only about opinion, it's about perception and consensus both. The consensus is that Federer is the GOAT with Laver as a close second. Although many consider Laver as the GOAT too because he won the CYGS and has no big blackspot on his resume like Federer has.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

For me Federer is the GOAT gamewise. I haven't seen a more complete player who play any shoot in the book with consummate ease. But mentally he more often than not loses it against a player with good enough ability(like Safin/Delpotro) on the same mental level. So this leaves some doubt whether he is the GOAT. A GOATdoesn't have to be the perfect player with no weaknesses, he just needs to be better than the other ATGs which Federer is.

Yes you can compare eras when one player's game would translate well to other eras. Djokovic , Nadal and Sampras are byproducts of their eras. Put them in another era and they will fail and fail rather miserably.

However, Federer is one such unique player whose game translates to any era that's why he's considered the GOAT. He is the only player among these three who was being touted as the GOAT well before he had the slam record.

I think you and Federer should get a room :heart:

 

[monfed]

You clubbing two inferior tennis players skillwise alongside Federer is a bit pathetic. One is an accurate pusher, the other is a 1D moonballer. Federer is more talented than these two plus he's achieved more, therefore he is better.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

You clubbing two inferior tennis players skillwise alongside Federer is a bit pathetic. One is an accurate pusher, the other is a 1D moonballer. Federer is more talented than these two plus he's achieved more, therefore he is better.

Lol Federer is a servebot who looks to finish the point if not with an ace then with the 2nd shot. Just mindless attacking style. When it works sure he looks great, but when he's a little off he looks ridiculous. Nadal is a thinker out there and builds points. And Nadal is an incredible shotmaker with huge powerful forehands and backhands, not to mention a lot of variety in his shots such as slice, volleys, angles, etc. You need help if you think he's a moonballer. Nobody outside a few players can hang with him on court due to his amazing groundstrokes. And he's also probably the most spectacular shotmaker in history, bringing the crowds to their feet in disbelief with incredible shot after incredible shot. Have a nice day.

 

[monfed]

Lol Federer is a servebot who looks to finish the point if not with an ace then with the 2nd shot. Just mindless attacking style. When it works sure he looks great, but when he's a little off he looks ridiculous. Nadal is a thinker out there and builds points. And Nadal is an incredible shotmaker with huge powerful forehands and backhands, not to mention a lot of variety in his shots such as slice, volleys, angles, etc. You need help if you think he's a moonballer. Nobody outside a few players can hang with him on court due to his amazing groundstrokes. And he's also probably the most spectacular shotmaker in history, bringing the crowds to their feet in disbelief with incredible shot after incredible shot. Have a nice day.

There is nothing to think when all he did was hit to Fed's BH all day. When that has stopped working thanks to Fed's bigger racquet, he looks clueless and desperate poor moonballer got exposed. No plan B, what a beggar LOL

I think you should stick to Faker now that Nadal can't get it done. Hop, skip, jump. Go go go. LOL

 

[Nadalfan2013]

There is nothing to think when all he did was hit to Fed's BH all day. When that has stopped working thanks to Fed's bigger racquet, he looks clueless and desperate poor moonballer got exposed. No plan B, what a beggar LOL

I think you should stick to Faker now that Nadal can't get it done. Hop, skip, jump. Go go go. LOL

Nadal and Djokovic will both pass Federer.

 

[monfed]

Nadal and Djokovic will both pass Federer.

dull will pass Federer with RGs because he's no good outside it. Exposed clay vulture by a 37 YO lol

Faker can pass the slam count but noone will consider him the GOAT since he's vulturing over a barren field since 2015.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

dull will pass Federer with RGs because he's no good outside it. Exposed clay vulture by a 37 YO lol

Faker can pass the slam count but noone will consider him the GOAT since he's vulturing over a barren field since 2015.

Nadal’s record at RG Is actually the most stunning tennis record in history. In fact anything compared to him on clay/RG cannot even be considered great. So Djokovic and Federer at Wimbledon or Australian open are actually good not great when compared to Nadal at the French Open.

Also Djokovic and Federer will end up cancelling each others because their strengths are so similar and not really unique. In fact I’d even include Sampras in this typical hardcourt/grass good record. And all these players have similar kind of weeks at number one and WTFs titles. Nothing unique just cancelling each others and showing how it’s not that special or rare to do this.

If all Big three hypothetically end up with 20 slams like this:

6-1-8-5
1-14-2-3
8-1-7-4

Then sorry Nadal will be the most unique and spectacular. He’d still have won all grand slams including at least two on each surface (unlike them) but his record at RG/clay would be the most epic thing ever, something that makes everything else look average and perhaps the only record that will never be approached by anyone.

So yeah I really do wish that Rafa wins more RGs and keeps redefining what true greatness and excellence is. That being said I think he has a great shot to add a fourth U.S. Open title.

 

[Bonaca]

I refer to the first two posts of Nadalfan and britbox, I’m fine with that and agree.
I know it doesn’t matter to you, only wants to share my opinion.
There is no goat , there is a group of 3.
When thinking about the highest level of tennis I have ever seen, I have to choose Novak or Maestro, giving Novak the edge. Nadal by himself pointed it out in the past. I’m remembering their match at the US Open, when they show father Nadal's face after a phenomenal rally , you can read what he thought in that moment without saying a word.
Not to forget, thanks Nadalfan for your first post!

 

[Bonaca]

Nadal’s record at RG Is actually the most stunning tennis record in history. In fact anything compared to him on clay/RG cannot even be considered great. So Djokovic and Federer at Wimbledon or Australian open are actually good not great when compared to Nadal at the French Open.

Also Djokovic and Federer will end up cancelling each others because their strengths are so similar and not really unique. In fact I’d even include Sampras in this typical hardcourt/grass good record. And all these players have similar kind of weeks at number one and WTFs titles. Nothing unique just cancelling each others and showing how it’s not that special or rare to do this.

If all Big three hypothetically end up with 20 slams like this:

6-1-8-5
1-14-2-3
8-1-7-4

Then sorry Nadal will be the most unique and spectacular. He’d still have won all grand slams including at least two on each surface (unlike them) but his record at RG/clay would be the most epic thing ever, something that makes everything else look average and perhaps the only record that will never be approached by anyone.

So yeah I really do wish that Rafa wins more RGs and keeps redefining what true greatness and excellence is. That being said I think he has a great shot to add a fourth U.S. Open title.

Sure he has a good chance in NY, one of the 3 will catch it, if they stay healthy.
It’s obvious that they are adapting their schedule.
Tell you honestly, i was surprised about the result of his SF against Fed, what i saw there, and adding that the second half of the year isn’t nadals best, i think he has the lowest chance of the 3 when they meet at SF or F.
But Novak and Maestro are more in danger for upsets before.

 

[MikeOne]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ex...rer-Rafael-Nadal-Andrew-Castles-Wimbledon/amp

And even regarding who has attained best level ever, there is an increasing opinion, it’s djokovic. Above article, andrew castle thinks so. Others who have alluded to this - nadal, toni nadal, berdych, rusedski, bolletieri, wilander, think even agassi. the list is growing. Most of this people dub federer goat but when purely alluding to highest level attainted, leaning novak.

 

[MikeOne]

Rafael nadal:

“I played against a player who did everything perfect,” Nadal said. “I know nobody playing tennis like this ever. Since I know this sport, I never saw somebody playing at this level.”

‘But it’d be unfair to say that Federer isn’t the best I’ve ever played against because the titles and his track record prove that to be the case.

‘But at a technical level, when Djokovic has been at the top of his game, I have to say that I’ve been up against an invincible player.’

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Rafael nadal:

“I played against a player who did everything perfect,” Nadal said. “I know nobody playing tennis like this ever. Since I know this sport, I never saw somebody playing at this level.”

‘But it’d be unfair to say that Federer isn’t the best I’ve ever played against because the titles and his track record prove that to be the case.

‘But at a technical level, when Djokovic has been at the top of his game, I have to say that I’ve been up against an invincible player.’

Very nice of Rafa to say all of this as he has always been humble, but still it's 26-28 and 9-6 in slams. Rafa has slowed down movement wise so now it's more difficult for him against Djokovic (or Federer) on a surface like hardcourt, but when he was faster he used to frustrate them much more and any version of Djokovic wouldn't be able to hit him off the court like that. That being said, whether it's Djokovic on grass/hardcourt or Federer on grass/hardcourt, neither comes even close to Rafa on clay. Rafa at his best on clay is literally invincible and that's the pinnacle of the sport, even Djokovic and Federer would tell you that. Rafa is just too humble to say that, but the whole world knows it. True perfection, greatness and excellence will always be Rafa on clay. That's the peak of any tennis player.

 

[Bonaca]

Very nice of Rafa to say all of this as he has always been humble, but still it's 26-28 and 9-6 in slams. Rafa has slowed down movement wise so now it's more difficult for him against Djokovic (or Federer) on a surface like hardcourt, but when he was faster he used to frustrate them much more and any version of Djokovic wouldn't be able to hit him off the court like that. That being said, whether it's Djokovic on grass/hardcourt or Federer on grass/hardcourt, neither comes even close to Rafa on clay. Rafa at his best on clay is literally invincible and that's the pinnacle of the sport, even Djokovic and Federer would tell you that. Rafa is just too humble to say that, but the whole world knows it. True perfection, greatness and excellence will always be Rafa on clay. That's the peak of any tennis player.

Yes it was nice from Nadal, I think he mean it like he said it.
Highest level ever doesn’t refer to a surface, sadly we didn’t witnessed a RG match of them when Novak was in this mode, this would be the match of the matches. And we will not.
Nadal at his best couldn’t be blown away of the court by no one , and even now only by Novak and maybe Federer with consistent A- Game, but he is fairly beatable.
What Nadal means, I think, is Novak at this level he mentioned, isn’t beatable from anybody he knows. At least not by him.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Yes it was nice from Nadal, I think he mean it like he said it.
Highest level ever doesn’t refer to a surface, sadly we didn’t witnessed a RG match of them when Novak was in this mode, this would be the match of the matches. And we will not.
Nadal at his best couldn’t be blown away of the court by no one , and even now only by Novak and maybe Federer with consistent A- Game, but he is fairly beatable.
What Nadal means, I think, is Novak at this level he mentioned, isn’t beatable from anybody he knows. At least not by him.

Meanwhile Kyrgios still hasn't lost a set to Djokovic. Some powerful players with big serves when "on" their game can cause many problems to Djokovic even when at his best.