US Politics Thread

[Moxie]

Agreed.

Also I’m hearing that Trump thinks this Iran thing is popular

This is one of the many dangers of the bubble that Trump lives in. There were a lot of surrogates out today speaking on the Sunday morning news shows. They are unwilling to call it a "war," even though Trump does. And to the extent that they do speak of war, they say that Iran started it, in the 70s. And Trump is the only President willing to finish it.

While conservatives and Republicans are usually willing to get on board the patriotism train when there's a military action, not so much this time. You know why..Trump ran on America First and staying out of foreign conflicts. If this ends soon, and goes reasonably well for the US, he may do ok, but that's not looking likely. It's a broken promise, and it's seen as distracting from the economy. His numbers are terrible, but I'm sure no one tells him that.

 

[Federberg]

This is one of the many dangers of the bubble that Trump lives in. There were a lot of surrogates out today speaking on the Sunday morning news shows. They are unwilling to call it a "war," even though Trump does. And to the extent that they do speak of war, they say that Iran started it, in the 70s. And Trump is the only President willing to finish it.

While conservatives and Republicans are usually willing to get on board the patriotism train when there's a military action, not so much this time. You know why..Trump ran on America First and staying out of foreign conflicts. If this ends soon, and goes reasonably well for the US, he may do ok, but that's not looking likely. It's a broken promise, and it's seen as distracting from the economy. His numbers are terrible, but I'm sure no one tells him that.

It’s tough to see how they can get out of this and call it a win. Iran’s leadership is clearly trying to survive by outlasting the attack. Best case scenario some passive residual of the regime is left. Worst case probably some sort of civil war that destabilises the region. That’s Dubya territory

 

[Moxie]

It’s tough to see how they can get out of this and call it a win. Iran’s leadership is clearly trying to survive by outlasting the attack. Best case scenario some passive residual of the regime is left. Worst case probably some sort of civil war that destabilises the region. That’s Dubya territory

Agreed. And now they've named the son as supreme leader, so that doesn't move the needle. So much for the best case. Plus, the conflict now involves some 14 countries. How do we even just rake it back to Iran? It seems like a mess. Meaning "quagmire" could be on the horizon. And I'm not trying to be glib...people are dying.

 

[Federberg]

 

[Moxie]

The US has bombed a school, killing over 150 children on the first day of the aggression against Iran. Not a single person here mentioned this. Shows me all I need to know about your Western values. Everyone busy playing armchair politics with zero care for actual people dying in a senseless unprovoked war started by the US and Israel. But please lecture us some more...

Actually, I almost commented on your post on the other thread where, amongst other memes, one of them was that no one was talking about the schoolgirls killed in that bombing. Maybe not in Lebanon, but here it gets a lot of press. I don't think it's fair to chastise what people don't bring up to discuss here. We have many discussions, and they're not all here. I honestly thought that particular tragedy spoke for itself. And it seems to be coming clearer that it WAS the US that did the bombing. There's so much happening at once that it's hard to find a lane. I think there is care for actual people. But you probably don't read what I post, as in, just above.

Please stay safe, Broken.

 

[Kieran]

There's been zero credible evidence of rape on October 7. Zero. This has been debunked a long time ago.

"There's been zero credible evidence" - according to who? And who debunked it?

 

[Federberg]

well... oil has gone well and truly taken off. This is going beyond just the mid-terms now. If we don't see a significant and lasting de-escalation soon.. this could tip the US economy into recession. I wonder how loyal GOP legislators will remain with their futures on the line, and the polls going against his orangeness...

 

[Front242]

well... oil has gone well and truly taken off. This is going beyond just the mid-terms now. If we don't see a significant and lasting de-escalation soon.. this could tip the US economy into recession. I wonder how loyal GOP legislators will remain with their futures on the line, and the polls going against his orangeness...

Scumbags are pricing gouging petrol already over here thanks to those 2 wankers (Trump and Netanyahu). Up over 10 cent per litre already. I was in Tenerife 3rd week of February and it was 50 cent cheaper per litre over there. The pricks in power are taking the utter piss out of us over here.

 

[Federberg]

Scumbags are pricing gouging petrol already over here thanks to those 2 wankers (Trump and Netanyahu). Up over 10 cent per litre already. I was in Tenerife 3rd week of February and it was 50 cent cheaper per litre over there. The pricks in power are taking the utter piss out of us over here.

I assume you're Stateside? The problem isn't so much price gouging, it's because the delta on price moves in the US tends to be much higher in America because they don't really tax gas. But I take your point, this whole thing is unnecessary so any rise is completely on the orange one and his friend in Israel

 

[Front242]

I assume you're Stateside? The problem isn't so much price gouging, it's because the delta on price moves in the US tends to be much higher in America because they don't really tax gas. But I take your point, this whole thing is unnecessary so any rise is completely on the orange one and his friend in Israel

Nope. Rip off Ireland here. Yup, those 2 turds started this. High time someone nuked the 2 of them.

 

[Federberg]

The scary thing about this whole fiasco is that the new Iranian leader has lost his father, he's lost his wife. How on earth is he going to be willing to negotiate with Trump. The guy who ripped up the nuclear deal. The guy who, along with Israel, attacked Iran while they were busy negotiating. I haven't read the art of the deal, but surely there has to be some chapter on the importance of trust in negotiations? What are the other gulf states going to think if Trump bails out of this, leaving a vengeful leader in place? What a total clusterfuck!

 

[Kieran]

The scary thing about this whole fiasco is that the new Iranian leader has lost his father, he's lost his wife. How on earth is he going to be willing to negotiate with Trump. The guy who ripped up the nuclear deal. The guy who, along with Israel, attacked Iran while they were busy negotiating. I haven't read the art of the deal, but surely there has to be some chapter on the importance of trust in negotiations? What are the other gulf states going to think if Trump bails out of this, leaving a vengeful leader in place? What a total clusterfuck!

Do you trust Iran to negotiate in good faith with countries they call The Great Satan and The little Satan?

 

[Federberg]

Actually, I almost commented on your post on the other thread where, amongst other memes, one of them was that no one was talking about the schoolgirls killed in that bombing. Maybe not in Lebanon, but here it gets a lot of press. I don't think it's fair to chastise what people don't bring up to discuss here. We have many discussions, and they're not all here. I honestly thought that particular tragedy spoke for itself. And it seems to be coming clearer that it WAS the US that did the bombing. There's so much happening at once that it's hard to find a lane. I think there is care for actual people. But you probably don't read what I post, as in, just above.

Please stay safe, Broken.

there was a lot going on and no one knew who was responsible. I don't believe anyone here was willing to go along with the initial reports that the Iranians were responsible even if accidentally. For my part I harboured a suspicion that it might have been intentionally done by the Israelis in response to the terrorist attack they suffered. But quite frankly there've been horrific acts perpetrated around the world that none of us have mentioned, I'll offer one, Bucha. I don't believe anyone here mentioned the genocide there. What exactly were we supposed to say about it? Were we racist against Ukrainians by being silent?

I'm obviously not getting at you @Moxie but god damn! It gets tiresome when -ism's get thrown around irresponsibly. I haven't heard one person here support what Trump has done, some - like me - have stated that one can at least understand the motivations of the Israelis, understand... not agree. But by golly! When words like racism get thrown around like this it really devalues a behaviour that's real and should be opposed. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's got to the stage where being called racist or misogynist is almost becoming a badge of honour because it means that who ever is being accused is willing to push the boundaries of snowflake-dom and say what they think forthrightly!

 

[Federberg]

Do you trust Iran to negotiate in good faith with countries they call The Great Satan and The little Satan?

lol! You're going to get me say nice things about Iran? I don't trust the son of the previous leader, but... the evidence seems to be that the Iranians stuck to the nuclear agreement. Sadly, it seems to me, that Trump is likely to be far less reliable with regards to any new treaties than the Iranians have shown in recent times. I can't speak to the whole history since the revolution and Iran's consistency. What I do know is that Trump has had agreements that he himself negotiated that he's thrown out on a whim. I give you the new NAFTA agreement he signed in his first term that he ditched at the start of his second term. I think the better question is should anyone trust any agreement that Trump makes? The Iranians have been around for millennia. They're not stupid

 

[Kieran]

lol! You're going to get me say nice things about Iran? I don't trust the son of the previous leader, but... the evidence seems to be that the Iranians stuck to the nuclear agreement. Sadly, it seems to me, that Trump is likely to be far less reliable with regards to any new treaties than the Iranians have shown in recent times. I can't speak to the whole history since the revolution and Iran's consistency. What I do know is that Trump has had agreements that he himself negotiated that he's thrown out on a whim. I give you the new NAFTA agreement he signed in his first term that he ditched at the start of his second term. I think the better question is should anyone trust any agreement that Trump makes? The Iranians have been around for millennia. They're not stupid

Well, that's a good question too, regarding Trump. But the Persians now aren't the Persians then. The Jews and the Persians then were fine together. Iran have openly told us what they want to do to Jews everywhere. And to the Great Satan. This war is unfortunate, but when you see even the woke Canadian PM support it (though typically wokefully, "with regret"), it's time to possibly think that it's being done for good purpose, if not a clear end...

 

[Federberg]

Well, that's a good question too, regarding Trump. But the Persians now aren't the Persians then. The Jews and the Persians then were fine together. Iran have openly told us what they want to do to Jews everywhere. And to the Great Satan. This war is unfortunate, but when you see even the woke Canadian PM support it (though typically wokefully, "with regret"), it's time to possibly think that it's being done for good purpose, if not a clear end...

I think both sides need to be trustworthy. The current Iranian regime is unknown. But we know Trump, we know that agreements don't mean that much to him.

As I've said before, I believe the Israelis could make an argument justifying their attack. And I'm certainly not going to feel much sorrow for the demise of the theocracy, but I think it's dangerous and perhaps a bit simplistic to support these sorts of military adventures. Who determines what's justified? This is the sort of thing that gives Russia debating points for their attack on Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. This is the sort of thing that China could use to attack Taiwan, or some other misadventure in the South China Sea. This is just shy of a unilateral attack, let's call it bilateral for arguments sake. The world is a far far more dangerous and unstable place now. This honestly feels like the precursor to WW1. I'm disregarding Carney's support. It was an easy thing to do, for a very specific political purpose, after the fact. I'm more concerned about what sort of a future this sort of precedent allows. We should all be terrified

 

[Kieran]

I think both sides need to be trustworthy. The current Iranian regime is unknown. But we know Trump, we know that agreements don't mean that much to him.

As I've said before, I believe the Israelis could make an argument justifying their attack. And I'm certainly not going to feel much sorrow for the demise of the theocracy, but I think it's dangerous and perhaps a bit simplistic to support these sorts of military adventures. Who determines what's justified? This is the sort of thing that gives Russia debating points for their attack on Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. This is the sort of thing that China could use to attack Taiwan, or some other misadventure in the South China Sea. This is just shy of a unilateral attack, let's call it bilateral for arguments sake. The world is a far far more dangerous and unstable place now. This honestly feels like the precursor to WW1. I'm disregarding Carney's support. It was an easy thing to do, for a very specific political purpose, after the fact. I'm more concerned about what sort of a future this sort of precedent allows. We should all be terrified

I’d be far more terrified if Iran got the nuclear ability to attack their neighbours and their hated peoples further afield. To depraved theocrats like this, their own martyrdom is a desired end. They don’t mind who accompanies them.

Putin could have no justification. Finland and Sweden have since joined NATO without so much as a tyrannical sneeze.

I agree about Carney but generally these sort of people tend to try position themselves as being the compassionate ones, the peacelings, the despisers of western ideals. And this time he didn’t…

 

[Federberg]

I’d be far more terrified if Iran got the nuclear ability to attack their neighbours and their hated peoples further afield. To depraved theocrats like this, their own martyrdom is a desired end. They don’t mind who accompanies them.

Putin could have no justification. Finland and Sweden have since joined NATO without so much as a tyrannical sneeze.

I agree about Carney but generally these sort of people tend to try position themselves as being the compassionate ones, the peacelings, the despisers of western ideals. And this time he didn’t…

I don't think Carney has ever positioned himself/ Canada like that. I have no issue with him when it comes to geopolitics. He's stood up for his own country which is what we would expect of a leader. When it comes to some of the domestic social policies I agree his party has some crazy stuff they're supporting, but I don't see that translating to foreign policy.

Putin has had no justification but that hasn't stopped him. When America starts unilaterally bumping off leaders of foreign countries then Pandora's box has been opened. What's to stop other nuclear powers from doing whatever they want? Who determines what's good? This is the dangerous position we're in now. This is Great Power politics, "might is right". It's all very well when the so called "good guys" (i.e., the guys you agree with) are doing it, but what happens when it's some dictator? By the way, re: Finland and Sweden joining NATO... Trump seems to have made Iceland and Norway reconsider their ambivalence to joining the EU. This is the strategic genius of the orange one But back to Putin, he has no capacity to do much because Ukraine is giving him all he can handle and more. Ironically forcing Ukraine to peace with Russia is probably the most likely thing to allow Russia the space to go to war with Western Europe, so be patient about that tyrannical sneeze.

As for nuclear weapons, there are a host of countries that have nuclear weapons that are concerning. I'm not saying I wouldn't be terrified about Iran having a weapon (let's not forget they were complying with JCPOA), but are we really going to fall for the banana in the tail pipe again? I thought we all learned our lesson from the Iraq war. All signs indicate that the Iranians were far from having a weapon. That was not a legitimate justification for this war.

 

[Kieran]

I don't think Carney has ever positioned himself/ Canada like that. I have no issue with him when it comes to geopolitics. He's stood up for his own country which is what we would expect of a leader. When it comes to some of the domestic social policies I agree his party has some crazy stuff they're supporting, but I don't see that translating to foreign policy.

Putin has had no justification but that hasn't stopped him. When America starts unilaterally bumping off leaders of foreign countries then Pandora's box has been opened. What's to stop other nuclear powers from doing whatever they want? Who determines what's good? This is the dangerous position we're in now. This is Great Power politics, "might is right". It's all very well when the so called "good guys" (i.e., the guys you agree with) are doing it, but what happens when it's some dictator? By the way, re: Finland and Sweden joining NATO... Trump seems to have made Iceland and Norway reconsider their ambivalence to joining the EU. This is the strategic genius of the orange one But back to Putin, he has no capacity to do much because Ukraine is giving him all he can handle and more. Ironically forcing Ukraine to peace with Russia is probably the most likely thing to allow Russia the space to go to war with Western Europe, so be patient about that tyrannical sneeze.

As for nuclear weapons, there are a host of countries that have nuclear weapons that are concerning. I'm not saying I wouldn't be terrified about Iran having a weapon (let's not forget they were complying with JCPOA), but are we really going to fall for the banana in the tail pipe again? I thought we all learned our lesson from the Iraq war. All signs indicate that the Iranians were far from having a weapon. That was not a legitimate justification for this war.

Carney has supported the strikes on Iran, but yeah generally he’s not as goofy and lame as the Vacuous Boy Prince who came before him. I think Putin exposed himself a little - not that he cares - by proving that the attack on Ukraine had nothing to do with them asking to join NATO. But I largely agree with you on everything - but war with the theocratic Iran was inevitable, it was only a matter of when. When Islamists tell us what their ultimate goal is, we ought to believe them. They’re quite explicit about it…

 

[Murat B.]

You do not hate CNN enough. The dishonesty and the lack of self awareness.... See, other channels support a side too but they openly say it. CNN to this day claim that they are impartial. GTFOH. They had to delete this tweet later on.
"Enjoying the city"...You cannot make this shit up even of you tried.