US Open, Flushing Meadows, NY USA - Grand Slam (Men)

The Strokes

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Also because I think you can't move players around in a draw that is set. That does make it look like you're rigging it. (That old paranoia of tennis boards.) The only answer would have been to move the seeds and redo the draw. But I agree with everyone who says that it was very poor of Murray not to have decided this 36 hours ago. Whomever it would have affected. But let's face it: not allowing them to put Rafa and Roger on opposites sides was a crappy move, esp. on the tournament.

But they are moving the seeds! #5 goes to #2 position. It's ridiculous. It's not a LL substitution.
So if you're moving seeds anyway, move then according to order #3 goes to #2.
The whole point of seeding is to ensure #1 and #2 don't meet till the final. Now it's in the semi, if they both go through.

Just plain stupid.

And Murray is a jerk to wait so long to withdraw. Just one day earlier and he wouldn't have messed up the draw.
 
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The Strokes

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Poor Muzz, obviously he has a serious hip problem, hope he won't need a surgery

Meanwhile Angie, Venus, Roger and Rafa at Kids Day in NY

rafael-nadal-roger-federer-venus-williams-angelique-kerber-attend-kids-day-2017-us-open.jpg
Kerber's legs are thinker than Rafa's. But I already knew that
 

Moxie

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But they are moving the seeds! #5 goes to #2 position. It's ridiculous. It's not a LL substitution.
So if you're moving seeds anyway, move then according to order #3 goes to #2.
The whole point of seeding is to ensure #1 and #2 don't meet till the final. Now it's in the semi, if they both go through.

Just plain stupid.

And Murray is a jerk to wait so long to withdraw. Just one day earlier and he wouldn't have messed up the draw.
Actually, that's a good point. They moved the top seed in the bottom half into Murray's slot, rather than a LL, which would have been obviously silly, but it is the way it's done in any other draw. Since they rejiggered it, anyway, why couldn't they have done it by ranking, you ask. Now I see the point. The tournament officials must have been driven to drink over this one. Just when they made a whole public spectacle of the draw for the first time (doing it at their event at the Seaport,) they're forced to rethink it. Murray put them in a tough position. The fairest solution would have been to reseed the draw, and draw over again. But that's unprecedented, too. And slightly embarrassing. So they moved Cilic. Murray had better say that he reinjured his hip in practice today, or he's going to be very unpopular. And even still....What a mess.
 
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mrzz

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I would guess that there are regulations for that, the fact that it never happened before does not mean it is not covered by regulations, specially considering that withdraws are common. It is such an arbitrary move -- and as people pointed out -- not the smartest one, that it is probably the result of strict following of the regulations -- or at least that's what I hope...
 
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Moxie

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Kerber's legs are thinker than Rafa's. But I already knew that
Are you #fatshaming? :lol6: Actually, they are the same, just a bit shorter. I don't know what is with the women on these boards giving other women a hard time! Where is the sisterhood? :unsure::)
 

herios

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I was trying to figure out what did they do with the reshuffling in the draw. They did two moves, beside bringing in the LL:
They moved Marin from the 5 seed to the 2 seed in replacing Andy, then the next one is a mysterious one, they replaced Marin with Sam Querrey who was moved from the top half to the bottom half, and finally Canadian Polanski took Sam's place as the LL.
This seems like an American conspiracy LOL
 
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herios

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I would guess that there are regulations for that, the fact that it never happened before does not mean it is not covered by regulations, specially considering that withdraws are common. It is such an arbitrary move -- and as people pointed out -- not the smartest one, that it is probably the result of strict following of the regulations -- or at least that's what I hope...
I think you are right. Sam was the highest seed (17) to be moved to the bottom half to rebalance the weakened half by Andy's withdrawal
 

Moxie

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I think you are right. Sam was the highest seed (17) to be moved to the bottom half to rebalance the weakened half by Andy's withdrawal
Now I'm officially appalled. If they would make that many adjustments, why not adjust the whole draw to reflect the new #1 and #2?
 
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the AntiPusher

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I don't dislike Raonic; I like Milos personally, but I don't like his game--I don't enjoy watching him play. I find him kind of ungainly, and I don't like big servers. But I feel great gratitude towards him for what he did for tennis in Canada.
I don't like being called not objective after just writing a post to MRzz talking about how we all have that tendency , and how I examine my own.
His ROS is notoriously poor.
I thought he was on a downward slope since MOya left. I also think he was floating near the top five due to a kind of lull in rapidly-improving young players. Now he's going to be passed by AZ (already has been) maybe Thiem, and maybe even Kyrgios and Dimi (same age as Raonic) as well.
Your reply to me accuses me of not being objective, but these are very objective observations. I like the guy, and I think his game is maxed out. I think he may do well to stay top ten when he comes back. He's already fallen out of top ten, and he will fall still further.

How objective are you?
Herios has heard this before about her big Canadian serve Bot ..I may have called him a big Lurch..However..that's one of her babies and she will nurse him like a mother hen..
 

herios

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Herios has heard this before about her big Canadian serve Bot ..I may have called him a big Lurch..However..that's one of her babies and she will nurse him like a mother hen..

Wrong assumption. Not hen here, rooster rather. And you do not want to get in a fight with me :)
 

the AntiPusher

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Wrong assumption. Not hen here, rooster rather. And you do not want to get in a fight with me :)
Nah..no need for a fight ...but the reference to mother hen is spot on.. don't take it as a personal attack
 

GameSetAndMath

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OK folks. Everything was done as per predetermined rules. I am posting the official rules below taken directly from the "grand slam rule book". But, first let me explain it in easy to understand manner.

1. Only if at least two of the top 8 seeds have withdrawn after the draw is made, the tournament is allowed (but not required) to remake the draw. As only Andy withdrew, the USO does not have the ability to remake the draw.

2. Obviously if an LL is directly placed into the slot of a high seed (who has withdrawn), the draw will be highly unbalanced. As a result, there are well defined rules of how to rebalance the draw when a seeded player withdraws. When a top four seed withdraws, the #5 seed gets into the slot created by the withdrawal. That is why Cilic got into Murray's spot. Then the #17 seed gets into the spot created by the movement of #5 seed. That is why Sam Querry who was seeded #17 got into Cilic's spot. The player who just missed the cut for being seeded (#33 guy) is moved into the spot created by the movement of #17 seed. Kohlschrbrier (#33 seed) moved into the spot vacated by Uncle Sam. Finally, the lucky loser is inserted into the spot created by movement of #33 guy. Lukas Lacko (incidentally his initials also match that of a Lucky Loser) got into Kohly's spot.

3. Everything is done as per pre-specified rules. There is no conspiracy to give advantage to any particular players.

4. While not ideal, the rules and rebalancing procedure are fairly sensible as well.

5. The rebalancing rules are three different procedures based on whether the seed who dropped out is in the range 1-4, 5-16 and 16-32. If only, they came in five different procedures based on whether the seed who dropped out is in the range 1-2, 3-4, 5-8, 9-16 and 16-32, the rebalancing rules would have been fairer than it is now.

---------------------------------------Relevant Sections from Official Rule Book ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seedings will not be official until the final draw is made. If two or more of the top eight seeds withdraw more than forty-eight (48) hours before the start of the tournament, the tournament may choose either to remake the draw or let the draw stand. Notwithstanding anything else contained herein, if a Wild Card withdraws after the original draw and the draw is to be remade, the vacancy created may be filled at the tournament’s option by a substitute Wild Card; if the tournament elects not to use a
substitute Wild Card, the vacancy shall be treated as any other vacancy below.

Any vacancy created by the withdrawal of a seed prior to the release of the Order of Play for the first day of Main Draw shall be filled as follows:

- If the withdrawal is among seeds 1 to 4, the 5th seed is moved into then open position, the 5th position shall be filled by the 17th seed, and the 17th position shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded. - If the withdrawal is among seeds 5 to 16, the 17th seed is moved into the open position and the 17th position shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded. - If the withdrawal is among seeds 17 to 32 it shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded.
The position vacated by that next highest ranked player shall then be filled by the next player on the original entry list if prior to the commencement of the Qualifying competition or by the eligible Lucky Loser if after the commencement of the Qualifying competition.
Any vacancy created by the withdrawal of a seed which occurs after the release of the Order of Play for the first day of the Main Draw shall be filled by eligible Lucky Losers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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the AntiPusher

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OK folks. Everything was done as per predetermined rules. I am posting the official rules below taken directly from the "grand slam rule book". But, first let me explain it in easy to understand manner.

1. Only if at least two of the top 8 seeds have withdrawn after the draw is made, the tournament is allowed (but not required) to remake the draw. As only Andy withdrew, the USO does not have the ability to remake the draw.

2. Obviously if an LL is directly placed into the slot of a high seed (who has withdrawn), the draw will be highly unbalanced. As a result, there are well defined rules of how to rebalance the draw when a seeded player withdraws. When a top four seed withdraws, the #5 seed gets into the slot created by the withdrawal. That is why Cilic got into Murray's spot. Then the #17 seed gets into the spot created by the movement of #5 seed. That is why Sam Querry who was seeded #17 got into Cilic's spot. The player who just missed the cut for being seeded (#33 guy) is moved into the spot created by the movement of #17 seed. Kohlschrbrier (#33 seed) moved into the spot vacated by Uncle Sam. Finally, the lucky loser is inserted into the spot created by movement of #33 guy. Lukas Lacko (incidentally his initials also match that of a Lucky Loser) got into Kohly's spot.

3. Everything is done as per pre-specified rules. There is no conspiracy to give advantage to any particular players.

4. The rules and rebalancing procedure are fairly sensible as well.

---------------------------------------Relevant Sections from Official Rule Book ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seedings will not be official until the final draw is made. If two or more of the top eight seeds withdraw more than forty-eight (48) hours before the start of the tournament, the tournament may choose either to remake the draw or let the draw stand. Notwithstanding anything else contained herein, if a Wild Card withdraws after the original draw and the draw is to be remade, the vacancy created may be filled at the tournament’s option by a substitute Wild Card; if the tournament elects not to use a
substitute Wild Card, the vacancy shall be treated as any other vacancy below.

Any vacancy created by the withdrawal of a seed prior to the release of the Order of Play for the first day of Main Draw shall be filled as follows:

- If the withdrawal is among seeds 1 to 4, the 5th seed is moved into then open position, the 5th position shall be filled by the 17th seed, and the 17th position shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded. - If the withdrawal is among seeds 5 to 16, the 17th seed is moved into the open position and the 17th position shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded. - If the withdrawal is among seeds 17 to 32 it shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded.
The position vacated by that next highest ranked player shall then be filled by the next player on the original entry list if prior to the commencement of the Qualifying competition or by the eligible Lucky Loser if after the commencement of the Qualifying competition.
Any vacancy created by the withdrawal of a seed which occurs after the release of the Order of Play for the first day of the Main Draw shall be filled by eligible Lucky Losers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks GSM..haven't we seen this before with Nishokori pulling out at the 11 hour...

As for the curse of Tignor,..it lives on again..
 

the AntiPusher

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OK folks. Everything was done as per predetermined rules. I am posting the official rules below taken directly from the "grand slam rule book". But, first let me explain it in easy to understand manner.

1. Only if at least two of the top 8 seeds have withdrawn after the draw is made, the tournament is allowed (but not required) to remake the draw. As only Andy withdrew, the USO does not have the ability to remake the draw.

2. Obviously if an LL is directly placed into the slot of a high seed (who has withdrawn), the draw will be highly unbalanced. As a result, there are well defined rules of how to rebalance the draw when a seeded player withdraws. When a top four seed withdraws, the #5 seed gets into the slot created by the withdrawal. That is why Cilic got into Murray's spot. Then the #17 seed gets into the spot created by the movement of #5 seed. That is why Sam Querry who was seeded #17 got into Cilic's spot. The player who just missed the cut for being seeded (#33 guy) is moved into the spot created by the movement of #17 seed. Kohlschrbrier (#33 seed) moved into the spot vacated by Uncle Sam. Finally, the lucky loser is inserted into the spot created by movement of #33 guy. Lukas Lacko (incidentally his initials also match that of a Lucky Loser) got into Kohly's spot.

3. Everything is done as per pre-specified rules. There is no conspiracy to give advantage to any particular players.

4. While not ideal, the rules and rebalancing procedure are fairly sensible as well.

5. The rebalancing rules are three different procedures based on whether the seed who dropped out is in the range 1-4, 5-16 and 16-32. If only, they came in five different procedures based on whether the seed who dropped out is in the range 1-2, 3-4, 5-8, 9-16 and 16-32, the rebalancing rules would have been fairer than it is now.

---------------------------------------Relevant Sections from Official Rule Book ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seedings will not be official until the final draw is made. If two or more of the top eight seeds withdraw more than forty-eight (48) hours before the start of the tournament, the tournament may choose either to remake the draw or let the draw stand. Notwithstanding anything else contained herein, if a Wild Card withdraws after the original draw and the draw is to be remade, the vacancy created may be filled at the tournament’s option by a substitute Wild Card; if the tournament elects not to use a
substitute Wild Card, the vacancy shall be treated as any other vacancy below.

Any vacancy created by the withdrawal of a seed prior to the release of the Order of Play for the first day of Main Draw shall be filled as follows:

- If the withdrawal is among seeds 1 to 4, the 5th seed is moved into then open position, the 5th position shall be filled by the 17th seed, and the 17th position shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded. - If the withdrawal is among seeds 5 to 16, the 17th seed is moved into the open position and the 17th position shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded. - If the withdrawal is among seeds 17 to 32 it shall be filled by the next highest ranked player eligible to be seeded.
The position vacated by that next highest ranked player shall then be filled by the next player on the original entry list if prior to the commencement of the Qualifying competition or by the eligible Lucky Loser if after the commencement of the Qualifying competition.
Any vacancy created by the withdrawal of a seed which occurs after the release of the Order of Play for the first day of the Main Draw shall be filled by eligible Lucky Losers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Krygios and Uncle Sam are the 2nd biggest beneficiaries of this withdrawal by Murray..Fed fans should prepare for crazy Nicky now.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Now, it is more or less sure that Nick would be alive and ready to face Fed in R4. Before it was somewhat doubtful as he had to face Uncle Sam in R3.
 

GameSetAndMath

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Also, wondered the same thing about shifting the seeding and leaving the draw the same - but I've been following tennis since I was a kid in the '70s and I've NEVER seen them do that. They put a qualifier or lucky loser in that slot and keep the draw the same.

May be you were not paying close attention. I have seen this kind of rebalancing done many times.

Whether or not they are allowed to do rebalance depends on whether the schedule of play for the first day is already posted.
If they have already announced the schedule of play for the opening day, then they have to just insert LL directly to Andy's slot (which would be even worse as it would be more imbalanced). As Andy at least had the courtesy to drop out before the OOP was released and so the USTA officials could do this rebalancing.
 

britbox

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It would have been better if Andy had the courtesy to drop out before the draw. Seems ridiculous that Cilic, gets his slot... and we have the top two seeded players in the same half.
 
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