Upset Corner - AO 2017 Edition

[Front242]

I reckon Dan Evans has a good chance to beat Tsonga.

 

[El Dude]

Rafa is an amazing player - there is no denying that. And yes, he owns Roger and I'll admit to being bitter about that. But I've also said that, as a tennis fan first and foremost, I wouldn't mind seeing the high drama of him winning one more French Open to cap off his career.

But I stand by my words about his game. And yes, it is a matter of taste. It is like different genres of music - some you like, some you don't. But if you have a good musical ear, you can appreciate quality music if styles you don't like.

Rafa is efficiency over artistry and I find him tedious to watch. He mainly wins through making his opponent lose - tiring them out, making them hit errors. Again, very efficient but lacking the artistry I prefer.

As for Zverev, maybe I was being hyperbolic in the moment because I was really disappointed with the result, but I still think he can and will rise to the top. But he has some work to do.

 

[Puppet Master]

Rafa is an amazing player - there is no denying that. And yes, he owns Roger and I'll admit to being bitter about that. But I've also said that, as a tennis fan first and foremost, I wouldn't mind seeing the high drama of him winning one more French Open to cap off his career.

But I stand by my words about his game. And yes, it is a matter of taste. It is like different genres of music - some you like, some you don't. But if you have a good musical ear, you can appreciate quality music if styles you don't like.

Rafa is efficiency over artistry and I find him tedious to watch. He mainly wins through making his opponent lose - tiring them out, making them hit errors. Again, very efficient but lacking the artistry I prefer.

As for Zverev, maybe I was being hyperbolic in the moment because I was really disappointed with the result, but I still think he can and will rise to the top. But he has some work to do.

I always forget to ask you this. How do you think Zverev will fare later on in his career? If I am not mistaken he is around 2 m tall, 1.98 m to be exact.
The last time someone that tall had the achievemnts you spoke of was Safin( although Marat is like 5 cm shorter than him). And he is an anomaly really. Sascha fits the archetype though.
Very strong baseline shots, booming serve, limited movent, fragility in long matches.
I think Zverev won't be the one to overcome the struggles that very tall guys go through. I might be wrong, who knows.
Here is my take on it. He won't ever reach world #1 and will most likely snatch a Wimbledon title or even a USO title, if he ever gets into position of winning a slam. He has little variety in his game, regardless of how powerful it is.
I like his mentality though. He never gives up, never ever. Reminds me of Del Potro a lot.
Also his backhand is actually a better shot than his forehand. He has a bit of an awkward technique and has to risk a lot if he is going for a winner. This is very strange for a player of his size. He is basically what you get if you took Andy and streched him.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I'm no Rafa fan, but ya'll leave that dude alone. At least he didn't get outgunned like the defending champ. Zverev isn't fit enough to compete in best of 5 matches yet. Hopefully he'll get there soon, but you have give credit where it's due, Nadal survived a barrage of bombs being thrown at him.

I don't understand why Rafa isn't your cup of tea but I think I can figure what the common denominator may be the Swiss King

He's a little too defensive for my cup of tea. The Swiss King is a-ight. My fave player retired many moons ago. I've had to endure all kinds of eras waiting to see the next best thing.

Who was your player..was it Borg.....?..

 

[the AntiPusher]

I reckon Dan Evans has a good chance to beat Tsonga.

No..JowillieTs will put a beat down on little baddy Danny

 

[El Dude]

Rafa is an amazing player - there is no denying that. And yes, he owns Roger and I'll admit to being bitter about that. But I've also said that, as a tennis fan first and foremost, I wouldn't mind seeing the high drama of him winning one more French Open to cap off his career.

But I stand by my words about his game. And yes, it is a matter of taste. It is like different genres of music - some you like, some you don't. But if you have a good musical ear, you can appreciate quality music if styles you don't like.

Rafa is efficiency over artistry and I find him tedious to watch. He mainly wins through making his opponent lose - tiring them out, making them hit errors. Again, very efficient but lacking the artistry I prefer.

As for Zverev, maybe I was being hyperbolic in the moment because I was really disappointed with the result, but I still think he can and will rise to the top. But he has some work to do.

I always forget to ask you this. How do you think Zverev will fare later on in his career? If I am not mistaken he is around 2 m tall, 1.98 m to be exact.
The last time someone that tall had the achievemnts you spoke of was Safin( although Marat is like 5 cm shorter than him). And he is an anomaly really. Sascha fits the archetype though.
Very strong baseline shots, booming serve, limited movent, fragility in long matches.
I think Zverev won't be the one to overcome the struggles that very tall guys go through. I might be wrong, who knows.
Here is my take on it. He won't ever reach world #1 and will most likely snatch a Wimbledon title or even a USO title, if he ever gets into position of winning a slam. He has little variety in his game, regardless of powerful it is.
I like his mentality though. He never gives up, never ever. Reminds me of Del Potro a lot.
Also his backhand is actually a better shot than his forehand. He has a bit of an awkward technique and has to risk a lot if he is going for a winner. This is very strange for a player of his size. He is basically what you get if you took Andy and streched him.

Good take, PM. Safin and del Potro are interesting and, I think, overall good comps. We can also see two variations of "failure:" Safin's mentality, which kept him from vying with Roger for dominant player of his generation, or at least being the Agassi to Roger's Sampras. Del Potro because of health reasons.

Actually, I like the del Potro comp best and think a peak (and healthy) Zverev is an exercise in asking: what would a healthy del Potro have looked like? I would guess that he would have won at least two or three Slams. Now Zverev has one big advantage over Delpo: he will be peaking when the Big Four are declining. He can't quite beat a declined Rafa yet, but that's a big "yet." A year from now I imagine we'll see a different picture. Fast-forward three years when AZ is 22-23 and he'll be dominating a 38-39 year old, 33-34 year old Rafa, and 32-33 year old Novak and Andy.

And yeah, his height is worrisome, and at 19 he may even grow another inch. But we're also seeing the game change, so who knows what is possible. His body seems lighter than delPo's, more like Novak's, so maybe that will help.

We don't yet know who the very best of "GenNext" will be. Right now Zverev is the best bet for the best of the group, but several others could accelerate quickly. Bu among players born 1989-98, we might not see any 6+ Slam winners. Rather, we might see a bunch of one-Slam wonders, several 2-3 Slam winners, and maybe one or two 4-5 Slam winners. Alex is well situated to develop into that last group.

2017 will tell us a lot more about all of these players, especially those born in 1997 and earlier: these guys will be turning 20 or older this year, and we should have a better sense of their trajectory. I expect AZ to fight his way close to the top 10, but probably finish somewhere in the 10-13 range. I think he'll go deep in a Slam or two, maybe reach a Masters final, and win several ATP 250s and 500s, but not win a big title until next year.

 

[kskate2]

I don't understand why Rafa isn't your cup of tea but I think I can figure what the common denominator may be the Swiss King

He's a little too defensive for my cup of tea. The Swiss King is a-ight. My fave player retired many moons ago. I've had to endure all kinds of eras waiting to see the next best thing.

Who was your player..was it Borg.....?..

Nope. Pete!

 

[the AntiPusher]

He's a little too defensive for my cup of tea. The Swiss King is a-ight. My fave player retired many moons ago. I've had to endure all kinds of eras waiting to see the next best thing.

Who was your player..was it Borg.....?..

Nope. Pete!

Duh..I should have figured it out..that was my dawg too..Man..I wished he would've managed the later part of his career like Roger did.

 

[Carol]

Rafa is an amazing player - there is no denying that. And yes, he owns Roger and I'll admit to being bitter about that. But I've also said that, as a tennis fan first and foremost, I wouldn't mind seeing the high drama of him winning one more French Open to cap off his career.

But I stand by my words about his game. And yes, it is a matter of taste. It is like different genres of music - some you like, some you don't. But if you have a good musical ear, you can appreciate quality music if styles you don't like.

Rafa is efficiency over artistry and I find him tedious to watch. He mainly wins through making his opponent lose - tiring them out, making them hit errors. Again, very efficient but lacking the artistry I prefer.

As for Zverev, maybe I was being hyperbolic in the moment because I was really disappointed with the result, but I still think he can and will rise to the top. But he has some work to do.

Yes, you have said well, it's a matter of taste and to me Rafa and Muzz are the most smart players in the Tour and that's why I like both more than anyone else. Rafa knows how to work with his opponent depending the game of this one. His weaker shot has been his serve which has given him some problems, otherwise with a good serve he would have saved a lot of work and energy but even that nobody can deny his superb game and results (of course not for these last two years)
Anyway who is tedious to watch for someone it's very admiraded and entertaining for others and vice versa
Anyway yesterday both players played pretty well, deep shots and some good serves. Rafa had to have finished the match in the fourth set but his unforced errors in the first and in the tie-break of the third made the match to last longer

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rafa is an amazing player - there is no denying that. And yes, he owns Roger and I'll admit to being bitter about that. But I've also said that, as a tennis fan first and foremost, I wouldn't mind seeing the high drama of him winning one more French Open to cap off his career.

But I stand by my words about his game. And yes, it is a matter of taste. It is like different genres of music - some you like, some you don't. But if you have a good musical ear, you can appreciate quality music if styles you don't like.

Rafa is efficiency over artistry and I find him tedious to watch. He mainly wins through making his opponent lose - tiring them out, making them hit errors. Again, very efficient but lacking the artistry I prefer.

As for Zverev, maybe I was being hyperbolic in the moment because I was really disappointed with the result, but I still think he can and will rise to the top. But he has some work to do.

Yes, you have said well, it's a matter of taste and to me Rafa and Muzz are the most smart players in the Tour and that's why I like both more than anyone else. Rafa knows how to work with his opponent depending the game of this one. His weaker shot has been his serve which has given him some problems, otherwise with a good serve he would have saved a lot of work and energy but even that nobody can deny his superb game and results (of course not for these last two years)
Anyway who is tedious to watch for someone it's very admiraded and entertaining for others and vice versa
Anyway yesterday both players played pretty well, deep shots and some good serves. Rafa had to have finished the match in the fourth set but his unforced errors in the first and in the tie-break of the third made the match to last longer

Rafa served about 11 aces and had a first service percentage over 67 %.. Rafa hit some great flat serves in the mid part of the 4 set that detoured young Alex from controlling the match..this is what missing when he fell to Krygrios at Wimbledon a few years ago..

 

[El Dude]

I didn't realize this, but Rafa's last four losses at Wimbledon were all against players ranked 100 or worse. That is crazy.

 

[Front242]

I didn't realize this, but Rafa's last four losses at Wimbledon were all against players ranked 100 or worse. That is crazy.

As a master of stats I thought that stat would've been common knowledge

 

[the AntiPusher]

I didn't realize this, but Rafa's last four losses at Wimbledon were all against players ranked 100 or worse. That is crazy.

As a master of stats I thought that stat would've been common knowledge

You two should get a room or at least become Facebook pals :laydownlaughing

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I have only one "upset" on my radar today. Kei taken down in 4 by Maestero.

 

[El Dude]

Yes, you have said well, it's a matter of taste and to me Rafa and Muzz are the most smart players in the Tour and that's why I like both more than anyone else. Rafa knows how to work with his opponent depending the game of this one. His weaker shot has been his serve which has given him some problems, otherwise with a good serve he would have saved a lot of work and energy but even that nobody can deny his superb game and results (of course not for these last two years)
Anyway who is tedious to watch for someone it's very admiraded and entertaining for others and vice versa
Anyway yesterday both players played pretty well, deep shots and some good serves. Rafa had to have finished the match in the fourth set but his unforced errors in the first and in the tie-break of the third made the match to last longer

I can't disagree with this, at least as far as Rafa is concerned. We can't put Andy in the same category in terms of being able to work with the opponent in front of you.

As far as yesterday's match is concerned, we could also say that if Zverev was a bit fitter and more experienced he would have won. I'd love to see them play at Wimbledon or the US Open, after Zverev has matured a bit more - or at least a year from now. I think we'll see a different result.

 

[El Dude]

I didn't realize this, but Rafa's last four losses at Wimbledon were all against players ranked 100 or worse. That is crazy.

As a master of stats I thought that stat would've been common knowledge

Haha, well, unlike you I don't pleasure myself over Rafa's flaws :devil

 

[Carol]

Yes, you have said well, it's a matter of taste and to me Rafa and Muzz are the most smart players in the Tour and that's why I like both more than anyone else. Rafa knows how to work with his opponent depending the game of this one. His weaker shot has been his serve which has given him some problems, otherwise with a good serve he would have saved a lot of work and energy but even that nobody can deny his superb game and results (of course not for these last two years)
Anyway who is tedious to watch for someone it's very admiraded and entertaining for others and vice versa
Anyway yesterday both players played pretty well, deep shots and some good serves. Rafa had to have finished the match in the fourth set but his unforced errors in the first and in the tie-break of the third made the match to last longer

I can't disagree with this, at least as far as Rafa is concerned. We can't put Andy in the same category in terms of being able to work with the opponent in front of you.

As far as yesterday's match is concerned, we could also say that if Zverev was a bit fitter and more experienced he would have won. I'd love to see them play at Wimbledon or the US Open, after Zverev has matured a bit more - or at least a year from now. I think we'll see a different result.

I don't have any doubt that Zeverev will go far if the injuries respect him but I'm still thinking that Kyrgios is better than him though his head looks a little bit lost :nono
And I think that Zeverev is well fitted, he has a very good serve and also he always moves very well but yesterday in the last two sets Rafa kept him running like a windshield and that's why he started to suffer cramps and more :deadhorse it was some kind of punishment

 

[El Dude]

Kyrgios is two years older than Zverev. Two years ago, Nick entered the AO ranked #53 and would reach his second Slam QF. Alex Z was #24 and still hasn't made it past the 3rd round.

But of course you are talking about their games. It is hard to say, really. On pure weaponry, Nick is better - at least right now. But in terms of mentality, Zverev is more determined and doesn't have the sense of entitlement Nick does.

 

[Carol]

But also I ask myself if Kyrgios really is so good player like we think. He seems to have the game but still has not won anything. According to him he loves the Basketball more than tennis but at the same time when he loses has the worst behavior showing his frustration which means that he could have more interest than he is pretending but his game doesn't advance according his age, I mean he can have a brillante day but also many bad ones and therefore can't be able to win a single MS and GS.
Of course I agree that Zeverev has much better mentality and actitud losing or winning and probably better future while Kyrgios could be another Tsonga but with worse temperament IMO

 

[the AntiPusher]

But also I ask myself if Kyrgios really is so good player like we think. He seems to have the game but still has not won anything. According to him he loves the Basketball more than tennis but at the same time when he loses has the worst behavior showing his frustration which means that he could have more interest than he is pretending but his game doesn't advance according his age, I mean he can have a brillante day but also many bad ones and therefore can't be able to win a single MS and GS.
Of course I agree that Zeverev has much better mentality and actitud losing or winning and probably better future while Kyrgios could be another Tsonga but with worse temperament IMO

I don't see the comparison of Kyrgios and JowillieTs. Kyrgios has a mental disorder...why am I the only one who will admit to what is plain fact..