UK Politics Thread

[Mary]

I see, that Boris Johnson is an abomination...

My parents are 60-70 too and they always vote for the socialists, ofc this is a different country, the only time i voted i voted for the socialists too but atm i would vote for the far right here, unfortunately atm they are what resembles a real socialist party..... The ruling "conservative" party are a bunch of thieves but the socialists before them were not only corrupt like them but they also didn't protect the rights of our people on the territories that were taken away after Trianon, and they had also brutally beaten down public protests when people were not satisfied, they even shot out a guy's eye:

this is what the socialists turned into here...

Yes, if i were a British youngster i would go on the streets for sure!!!!

The video is dreadful. Like a war zone. And like parts of Ireland 25 years ago. You have to go with a vote for those you believe will do the best for the country.

I think politics is a dirty game but I have hopes of Corbyn here. He is a man of principles, a rare thing but he will have a tough job. And he is not young.

BTW your English is great!

I'll update here as things develop.

 

[Horsa]

I hate abortion too but hate a law that would imprison a desperate woman for life even more.

Last night this horrendous govt voted against a payrise for public sector workers. That includes fire fighters, health workers,police, those who do the most demanding essential jobs. Not only did they vote against it, they cheered when the result was announced. Public sector workers pay has been eroded by 10%. MPs just voted themselves 11% payrise. The anger I wrote of yesterday has escalated massively.

Well, yes, I guess desperate times call for desperate measures but there's the emergency pill & there's adoption & fostering. There are a lot of people who would love a child but can't have 1. We don't always think straight when we're stressed upset & angry so maybe making abortion illegal should be done but in a different way like closing down all abortion clinics but then back-street abortionists would spring up like they did before & they endangered women's lives so I guess no matter how much some people hate abortion nothing can be done as we're in a vicious circle.

That's dreadful. They're the people who need more money. M.P.'s don't need that much. Have they no human decency?

 

[Horsa]

I think and hope the Tories will go but they are like rats in a corner right now.

I wanted to stay in the EU; if there was another vote I don't think we would leave. The referendum was a farce. David Cameron was trying to hold on to leadership of the Tories. Quite a lot of Tories hated the EU. Cameron agreed to their wish for a referendum if they would vote for him. The campaign was dreadful, the public believed lies put about by Boris Johnson and UKIP whipped up massive racism. Now we have this appalling mess.

It seems older people support the Tories but things are changing. The last few weeks have shown people what they are. I am 72 and have never voted Tory and never would. If I had I would feel ashamed. I accept people's right to different views but can't accept arrogance, lies, manipulation and greed and the Tory party now is dominated by these things. It may have been more honest years ago but not now. If I was young I'd be out on the streets protesting as I did in my teens!

If labour had a better leader they might have won. I don't like Jeremy Corbyn. I think if we had better choices people might have voted the other way.

I wanted to leave the E.U. because I don't go abroad anymore so duty-free & freedom of movement don't benefit us. I think we pay more money in than we get out from where I live anyway. I think free trade should mean exactly that as it used to do. I've seen 1st-hand our farmer's not being able to sell their onions in our shops as shops are only allowed to sell Spanish ones, etc. Our fishermen were struggling because they had to throw fish back in the sea because they weren't on our quotas. I felt scared because we can't deport foreign criminals because the E.U. said we couldn't & everything else that was going on as well as the fact that the government said they couldn't afford to help our people in times of floods yet if there were floods elsewhere they were the 1st to help because they said the E.U. compelled them to. If there was another vote I think a lot of people would stay at home as they don't think the results were acted on. The referendum was a farce. We got 6 lots of brochures wanting us to vote to stay in & 1 lot wanting us to leave & all the remain leaflets twisted all the facts. I disagreed with all the racism & name-calling around that time & threats & violence weren't called for. I'm not racist & never will be. My decision was mainly based on all the money we were paying into the E.U. which could have gone into our own country & our restrictions on farmer's, fishermen & making our own laws as well as having to abide by E.U. ones. I've had Polish hair-dressers, French, French teachers, Asian taxi drivers & have worked with Australians, Asians, Canadians, Hungarians & South Africans.

I don't like arrogance, lies, manipulation & greed either. I would never protest as I think we had a vote. The majority voted the other way so I have to accept it. I disagreed with Cameron's laws as some caused the death of elderly & disabled people the 1st time he was in power but he was voted in so I accepted it.

 

[Horsa]

The video is dreadful. Like a war zone. And like parts of Ireland 25 years ago. You have to go with a vote for those you believe will do the best for the country.

I think politics is a dirty game but I have hopes of Corbyn here. He is a man of principles, a rare thing but he will have a tough job. And he is not young.

BTW your English is great!

I'll update here as things develop.

He's also an I.R.A. supporter which after the events of the '80s is unacceptable.

 

[Horsa]

Everyone has a right to have & air their own opinion though & I disagree with some of what you say & agree with other things. I respect your right to an opinion & am very sorry if you thought things got too heated. I'm just disgusted by some people calling all people who voted out of the E.U. stupid racists which we're not, well not all of us anyway. Some people had other reasons. The racists who caused trouble made it bad on all the rest of us. I'm not against everyone who voted in neither as everyone has all their own circumstances & reasons. What fits 1 person doesn't fit everyone. I'm against those who call people names who disagree with them & don't accept votes. Maybe Nekro is right & there are other ways of disagreeing with some of what the E.U. says & does. The information I got with the information which was available before the vote made me think that the E.U. is just an authoritarian cash cow. I didn't watch the Brexit campaign because I was sick of the constant name-calling & twisting of words so just read instead of watching t.v. I often just read, sew or paint instead of watching t.v. as there's not much on t.v. anyway. I listen & sing along to music instead.

 

[britbox]

@Mary There is no DUP policy to imprison women for life for having an abortion. They are against abortion - that's true, as are all the mainstream Northern Irish parties.

Yes, they have a chequered history, particularly when Ian Paisley Snr was at the helm. Did they have links to Protestant paramilitaries? Very tenuous ones... Paisley had plenty of opportunity to go down that route but never really did. He wasn't a Gusty Spence by any measurement. They were never the political wing of the UVF or UFF.

Paisley mellowed in later life and contributed toward the peace process, working well by all accounts with Sinn Fein's Martin McGuiness - his polar opposite. By all accounts, they became friendly on a social level... something you'd never have dreamed of being possible even 10 years earlier.

It's easy for the left to demonise the DUP because they follow a god-fearing christian agenda, but it's also a tad hypocritical when you consider Jeremy Corbyn's appeasement of Sinn Fein and by proxy the IRA when they were murdering British citizens for decades.

DUP's manifesto is here:

http://dev.mydup.com/images/uploads/publications/DUP_Wminster_Manifesto_2017_v5.pdf

I don't think they are an unacceptable party. They represent the mainstream Protestant population in Northern Ireland. Far more acceptable than Corbyn's Sinn Fein bedfellows, but even they must be classed as acceptable because they have the Northern Irish Catholic mandate. It's an extremely complex place and not for people on the mainland to impose what is acceptable for them. Labour and Conservative can always choose to stand in Northern Irish elections if they think they can offer a preferable solution for people to vote for. My guess is that they would both be lucky to get their deposit back.

On another note, I don't like the deal with the DUP. It is essentially a bribe. Not a practice that is limited to the Conservative Party by the way. Corbyn will have to do his own deals to get elected with a rainbow coalition. I don't see him winning an outright majority.

 

[britbox]

I live in Oz but a dual citizen of Oz and the UK. I don't vote in UK elections even though I can do a postal vote. I'm not living there and have no intention of living there again, so don't really think it's right voting. I don't think expats should get a vote.

I'm still interested in the old country though and would have definitely voted Brexit if I was still there. Nothing to do with racism. The world is changing quicker than most people know.

Globalisation is a huge threat to western civilization as we know it IMO. I would want a government that has the sovereignty to move quickly, do it's own trade deals, be nimble and manouvreable. It's nothing to do with turning our backs on Europe... Europe is a continent, not a government. The Swiss aren't any less European than the French. I don't like the EU because it's a corrupt, bureaucratic, unaccountable, inefficient, monolithic and slow moving. Trade deals shouldn't take 10 years to do.

Countries shouldn't have EU policies thrust down their throat at the expense of what their elected local governments think best for their own population. Sovereignty is everything, I'm always for decentralisation not centralisation... every region has their own unique problems. You can't address that with the EU model.

I don't know a single person who voted Brexit on the basis of some advert on the side of a London bus. I don't know why the terms "Hard Brexit" and "Soft Brexit" suddenly came into play after the vote was decided. These always seemed arguments by the remainers grasping at straws. Brexit to me was leaving the EU, including the single market and the customs union. You can't stay in and have sovereignty without. At least, that should have been the starting negotiating position. i.e. We're out.... now let's start negotiating for common benefits and do a trade deal.

What we have now, is a confused mess.

As for lies, well that cut both ways... Cameron said Article 50 would be invoked immediately.... Osbourne pledged a punitive budget.. Lies, never happened. All the remain groups stated in unequivocal terms that Brexit meant leaving the single market and customs union. Now, the "Soft Brexit" option is being peddled around...

 

[Horsa]

I live in Oz but a dual citizen of Oz and the UK. I don't vote in UK elections even though I can do a postal vote. I'm not living there and have no intention of living there again, so don't really think it's right voting. I don't think expats should get a vote.

I'm still interested in the old country though and would have definitely voted Brexit if I was still there. Nothing to do with racism. The world is changing quicker than most people know.

Globalisation is a huge threat to western civilization as we know it IMO. I would want a government that has the sovereignty to move quickly, do it's own trade deals, be nimble and manouvreable. It's nothing to do with turning our backs on Europe... Europe is a continent, not a government. The Swiss aren't any less European than the French. I don't like the EU because it's a corrupt, bureaucratic, unaccountable, inefficient, monolithic and slow moving. Trade deals shouldn't take 10 years to do.

Countries shouldn't have EU policies thrust down their throat at the expense of what their elected local governments think best for their own population. Sovereignty is everything, I'm always for decentralisation not centralisation... every region has their own unique problems. You can't address that with the EU model.

I don't know a single person who voted Brexit on the basis of some advert on the side of a London bus. I don't know why the terms "Hard Brexit" and "Soft Brexit" suddenly came into play after the vote was decided. These always seemed arguments by the remainers grasping at straws. Brexit to me was leaving the EU, including the single market and the customs union. You can't stay in and have sovereignty without. At least, that should have been the starting negotiating position. i.e. We're out.... now let's start negotiating for common benefits and do a trade deal.

What we have now, is a confused mess.

As for lies, well that cut both ways... Cameron said Article 50 would be invoked immediately.... Osbourne pledged a punitive budget.. Lies, never happened. All the remain groups stated in unequivocal terms that Brexit meant leaving the single market and customs union. Now, the "Soft Brexit" option is being peddled around...

I agree with everything you've said except 1 thing. That's the issue of globalization. I'm dead centre in the globalization debate. I see the threats that you're talking about but also think that there are good things about globalization too. We can get goods we wouldn't be able to get in our own country like bananas, tea & coffee but we should support our own farmer's & fishermen too. I also think it's very important that we learn about other cultures & languages & accept them while embracing our own too. I learnt sitar in High School (not very well) & enjoyed it & my favourite subject was French because I was naturally very good at it (I can't remember much of it now though).

 

[Horsa]

@Mary There is no DUP policy to imprison women for life for having an abortion. They are against abortion - that's true, as are all the mainstream Northern Irish parties.

Yes, they have a chequered history, particularly when Ian Paisley Snr was at the helm. Did they have links to Protestant paramilitaries? Very tenuous ones... Paisley had plenty of opportunity to go down that route but never really did. He wasn't a Gusty Spence by any measurement. They were never the political wing of the UVF or UFF.

Paisley mellowed in later life and contributed toward the peace process, working well by all accounts with Sinn Fein's Martin McGuiness - his polar opposite. By all accounts, they became friendly on a social level... something you'd never have dreamed of being possible even 10 years earlier.

It's easy for the left to demonise the DUP because they follow a god-fearing christian agenda, but it's also a tad hypocritical when you consider Jeremy Corbyn's appeasement of Sinn Fein and by proxy the IRA when they were murdering British citizens for decades.

DUP's manifesto is here:

http://dev.mydup.com/images/uploads/publications/DUP_Wminster_Manifesto_2017_v5.pdf

I don't think they are an unacceptable party. They represent the mainstream Protestant population in Northern Ireland. Far more acceptable than Corbyn's Sinn Fein bedfellows, but even they must be classed as acceptable because they have the Northern Irish Catholic mandate. It's an extremely complex place and not for people on the mainland to impose what is acceptable for them. Labour and Conservative can always choose to stand in Northern Irish elections if they think they can offer a preferable solution for people to vote for. My guess is that they would both be lucky to get their deposit back.

On another note, I don't like the deal with the DUP. It is essentially a bribe. Not a practice that is limited to the Conservative Party by the way. Corbyn will have to do his own deals to get elected with a rainbow coalition. I don't see him winning an outright majority.

Definitely, Northern Ireland is still a very religious country. I remember going to see my Irish Aunt & cousins who were 1/2 English 1/2 Irish. I knew about the troubles so before I went I thought I can talk about anything as long as it's not religion. Though I think the troubles in Northern Ireland are hypocritical as they're supposed to be about religion yet according to both Catholic & Protestant bibles 1 of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not kill" & that is exactly what they're doing. If they were really devout Catholics or Protestants they would be obeying the 10 commandments to the letter therefore they would not kill.

 

[britbox]

I agree with everything you've said except 1 thing. That's the issue of globalization. I'm dead centre in the globalization debate. I see the threats that you're talking about but also think that there are good things about globalization too. We can get goods we wouldn't be able to get in our own country like bananas, tea & coffee but we should support our own farmer's & fishermen too. I also think it's very important that we learn about other cultures & languages & accept them while embracing our own too. I learnt sitar in High School (not very well) & enjoyed it & my favourite subject was French because I was naturally very good at it (I can't remember much of it now though).

Ok, just to clarify - I don't mean not trading with the rest of the world. I mean setting the conditions of trade. I like Trump's economic premise - if you're going to export the jobs overseas then you're going to pay the price on import tarrifs.

 

[britbox]

Definitely, Northern Ireland is still a very religious country. I remember going to see my Irish Aunt & cousins who were 1/2 English 1/2 Irish. I knew about the troubles so before I went I thought I can talk about anything as long as it's not religion. Though I think the troubles in Northern Ireland are hypocritical as they're supposed to be about religion yet according to both Catholic & Protestant bibles 1 of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not kill" & that is exactly what they're doing. If they were really devout Catholics or Protestants they would be obeying the 10 commandments to the letter therefore they would not kill.

Agreed. I think it's safer to categorise it on Loyalist/Republican terms than by religion, although obviously the divide is roughly equivalent.

 

[Mary]

Hi Britbox, tried to quote you and ended up with mixed quotes of you, Ann and myself.

Very little time today as have LP meetings.

My mothers family are Irish, I lived there for a time and have both Protestant and Catholic family North and South. I know the complexity.

I heard and saw Paisley speak live,actively urging violence against Catholics who at that time simply wanted civil rights. It is totally clear in my memory. The troubles were initially a civil rights issue. He was involved in the UDA, UVF and with some others founded the URM. Numerous Catholics were killed and the UVF secured arms on a big scale. It is said they are still around acting against catholics. To my family Paisley was a monster to the day he died and I agree with them. The DUP was grown from these groups and is hated by many NI people of both religions. They have an unanswered case to answer re alleged Saudi money provided to them to interfere with the referendum. Eire is also bitterly opposed to them.

The NI abortion law goes back to the 1860s and carries possible life prison sentences for those having or physically aiding abortion. There are numerous Human Rights criticisms and an Amnesty Int report which makes harrowing reading. I don't think life has been given in the last 50 years if ever but prison sentences have. There is no modern guidance as far as I know on interpreting this law. DUP have opposed change. Stella Creasey is looking to help NI women, will be interesting to see what DUP do and how they vote. Women in NI are so often terrified of this archaic legislation. Marie Stopes Clinic here runs counselling and support for them. Yes Eire may be the same but we haven't given Eire the right to the control UK Parliament and £1.5 billion of our tax payer money. I would not tell The Irish what they should do politically but I don't want them in powerful positions here.

Edited to add Stella Creasey's motion through this pm, not yet sure of details.

Corbyn was Mowlem's envoy to the IRA to seek to establish a basis for talks. He was involved before it was well known. Even Thatcher had talks with the IRA then. He sought peace as did we all. He is totally opposed to violence from any group. I don't know how many died in the troubles, over 500 Catholics I know but not sure how many Protestants. The thought of that starting up again because of May makes me sick to my guts.

Corbyn is anti coalition. If he has a minority it is up to other groups if they support proposals or not. The mood is now that we will win big. The feeling against this government is massive. Last nights jeering was totally sickening, I am hearing many Tories saying they will never vote Tory again. A lot of public school louts behaving like Bullingdon Club wannabees. The mood here has changed dramatically in the last three weeks.


I only saw lies on a bus on twitter. They were printed and circulated by Brexit groups including UKIP. We received 3 different leaflets, through the door all with blatant exaggerations or untruths. The UKIP bloke abused me when I told him we did not share his views. There is now a growing all party group back pedalling on Brexit.

I know you follow stuff here closely. Watch out for three things. Public sector strike calls. July 1st protests. July 12, Battle of the Boyne Orange Order Stuff. For other thread followers, the Battle of the Boyne was the start of a Protestant domination of Ireland. About 1690, still celebrated by Prots burning Catholic effigies and marching about in orange with drums.

My family came from Wexford, the beautiful rebel county, Southern Ireland, bottom right. A huge battle against English rule was fought in 1798. It was lost. "Poor Wexford stripped naked hung high on a cross" They say the great River Slaney ran red with blood. The Irish have very very long memories.

Sorry for typos, predictive spelling derives me nuts and I can't turn it off!

 

[Mary]

Definitely, Northern Ireland is still a very religious country. I remember going to see my Irish Aunt & cousins who were 1/2 English 1/2 Irish. I knew about the troubles so before I went I thought I can talk about anything as long as it's not religion. Though I think the troubles in Northern Ireland are hypocritical as they're supposed to be about religion yet according to both Catholic & Protestant bibles 1 of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not kill" & that is exactly what they're doing. If they were really devout Catholics or Protestants they would be obeying the 10 commandments to the letter therefore they would not kill.

I totally agree with Thou shalt not kill Ann. But the troubles are not primarily religious. The older Rebellions were about independence from English Rule. Then in the 60s it was about civil rights which were denied to Catholics. It escalated into wanting a United Ireland.

I would like another commandment - Thou shalt not make or sell weapons or provide funding to those who seek to buy and use them. The IRA used British weapons a lot, bought from the ME and Libya funded by the US.
I had a house in Eire until 10 years ago. The local people loved to talk about it all. There was no anti English feeling towards us. As our plumber said, every Irish family has a relative living in England. England has been a back door for the Irish for generations. Not one they need much now, they have benefited greatly from EU investment.

 

[Horsa]

Ok, just to clarify - I don't mean not trading with the rest of the world. I mean setting the conditions of trade. I like Trump's economic premise - if you're going to export the jobs overseas then you're going to pay the price on import tarrifs.

I didn't mean not trading with the rest of the world I meant only trading with the rest of the world when you can't produce the goods yourself. For example, I chose polished granite tiles for our toilet floor, I'd have thought that with Aberdeen being famous for granite they'd have come from Aberdeen but the label said they were from China. At 1 time the only price you had to pay for importing & exporting goods was the price of the goods themselves. That's what I call real free trade. I might be talking about way back in history but if it happened then why can't it happen now? Oh! I get it. Some of these leaders are out for what they can get & are only in it for the money. I agree with Trump's idea if they can buy local & keep jobs local why go abroad though.

 

[Horsa]

Hi Britbox, tried to quote you and ended up with mixed quotes of you, Ann and myself.

Very little time today as have LP meetings.

My mothers family are Irish, I lived there for a time and have both Protestant and Catholic family North and South. I know the complexity.

I heard and saw Paisley speak live,actively urging violence against Catholics who at that time simply wanted civil rights. It is totally clear in my memory. The troubles were initially a civil rights issue. He was involved in the UDA, UVF and with some others founded the URM. Numerous Catholics were killed and the UVF secured arms on a big scale. It is said they are still around acting against catholics. To my family Paisley was a monster to the day he died and I agree with them. The DUP was grown from these groups and is hated by many NI people of both religions. They have an unanswered case to answer re alleged Saudi money provided to them to interfere with the referendum. Eire is also bitterly opposed to them.

The NI abortion law goes back to the 1860s and carries possible life prison sentences for those having or physically aiding abortion. There are numerous Human Rights criticisms and an Amnesty Int report which makes harrowing reading. I don't think life has been given in the last 50 years if ever but prison sentences have. There is no modern guidance as far as I know on interpreting this law. DUP have opposed change. Stella Creasey is looking to help NI women, will be interesting to see what DUP do and how they vote. Women in NI are so often terrified of this archaic legislation. Marie Stopes Clinic here runs counselling and support for them. Yes Eire may be the same but we haven't given Eire the right to the control UK Parliament and £1.5 billion of our tax payer money. I would not tell The Irish what they should do politically but I don't want them in powerful positions here.

Edited to add Stella Creasey's motion through this pm, not yet sure of details.

Corbyn was Mowlem's envoy to the IRA to seek to establish a basis for talks. He was involved before it was well known. Even Thatcher had talks with the IRA then. He sought peace as did we all. He is totally opposed to violence from any group. I don't know how many died in the troubles, over 500 Catholics I know but not sure how many Protestants. The thought of that starting up again because of May makes me sick to my guts.

Corbyn is anti coalition. If he has a minority it is up to other groups if they support proposals or not. The mood is now that we will win big. The feeling against this government is massive. Last nights jeering was totally sickening, I am hearing many Tories saying they will never vote Tory again. A lot of public school louts behaving like Bullingdon Club wannabees. The mood here has changed dramatically in the last three weeks.


I only saw lies on a bus on twitter. They were printed and circulated by Brexit groups including UKIP. We received 3 different leaflets, through the door all with blatant exaggerations or untruths. The UKIP bloke abused me when I told him we did not share his views. There is now a growing all party group back pedalling on Brexit.

I know you follow stuff here closely. Watch out for three things. Public sector strike calls. July 1st protests. July 12, Battle of the Boyne Orange Order Stuff. For other thread followers, the Battle of the Boyne was the start of a Protestant domination of Ireland. About 1690, still celebrated by Prots burning Catholic effigies and marching about in orange with drums.

My family came from Wexford, the beautiful rebel county, Southern Ireland, bottom right. A huge battle against English rule was fought in 1798. It was lost. "Poor Wexford stripped naked hung high on a cross" They say the great River Slaney ran red with blood. The Irish have very very long memories.

Sorry for typos, predictive spelling derives me nuts and I can't turn it off!

Thank you very much for your information. I don't know much about Irish history other than it's closely connected with Scottish. I know most of my ancestors originally came from there & moved to Dunoon before moving to Durham during the struggles of Argyll. I also know about the events in the 80's & 90's & that my Aunt married my Uncle but then moved over here & if I ever went I'd love to go to Connemara because of my loving for horses. My Aunt made us Irish Stew & we used to sing Irish songs & we listened to the accordion which I love. I've always loved Claddagh rings too but was never 1 for Leprechauns.

It's o.k. Since I went on Windows 7 my p.c. put my spell-checker on American English & won't let me turn back onto British English & decides to autocorrect sometimes so if I go American you know now.

Where I come from all the remain leaflets were lying, name-calling & abusive & the leave leaflet told the truth as we knew it.

 

[Horsa]

I totally agree with Thou shalt not kill Ann. But the troubles are not primarily religious. The older Rebellions were about independence from English Rule. Then in the 60s it was about civil rights which were denied to Catholics. It escalated into wanting a United Ireland.

I would like another commandment - Thou shalt not make or sell weapons or provide funding to those who seek to buy and use them. The IRA used British weapons a lot, bought from the ME and Libya funded by the US.
I had a house in Eire until 10 years ago. The local people loved to talk about it all. There was no anti English feeling towards us. As our plumber said, every Irish family has a relative living in England. England has been a back door for the Irish for generations. Not one they need much now, they have benefited greatly from EU investment.

I agree with your extra commandment.

I haven't seen much E.U. investment where I come from which might explain our differing views. Everyone sees everything differently according to their experiences. I didn't see many E.U. benefits when I was travelling either other than E.H.I.C. cards & duty-free & cheap travel to European countries. A lot of English people have Irish or Scots/Irish ancestors too. I know about when the Irish came to England because of potato blight which hit them very hard.

 

[Mary]

Just a quick follow up. Loyalist bonfires are already built for Battle of Boyne, festival of hate celebrations. They are burning Polish and Vatican flags.

Children outside a Catholic school have bee terrified by loyalist is signs.

The Troubles are starting again.

 

[Horsa]

Just a quick follow up. Loyalist bonfires are already built for Battle of Boyne, festival of hate celebrations. They are burning Polish and Vatican flags.

Children outside a Catholic school have bee terrified by loyalist is signs.

The Troubles are starting again.

Oh dear! That's dreadful. Theresa May interfered by saying she was providing money for women from Northern Ireland to come over here to have abortions on the N.H.S. too which is absolutely disgusting & would have stirred the pot a bit.

 

[britbox]

Hi Britbox, tried to quote you and ended up with mixed quotes of you, Ann and myself.

Very little time today as have LP meetings.

My mothers family are Irish, I lived there for a time and have both Protestant and Catholic family North and South. I know the complexity.

I heard and saw Paisley speak live,actively urging violence against Catholics who at that time simply wanted civil rights. It is totally clear in my memory. The troubles were initially a civil rights issue. He was involved in the UDA, UVF and with some others founded the URM. Numerous Catholics were killed and the UVF secured arms on a big scale. It is said they are still around acting against catholics. To my family Paisley was a monster to the day he died and I agree with them. The DUP was grown from these groups and is hated by many NI people of both religions. They have an unanswered case to answer re alleged Saudi money provided to them to interfere with the referendum. Eire is also bitterly opposed to them.

The NI abortion law goes back to the 1860s and carries possible life prison sentences for those having or physically aiding abortion. There are numerous Human Rights criticisms and an Amnesty Int report which makes harrowing reading. I don't think life has been given in the last 50 years if ever but prison sentences have. There is no modern guidance as far as I know on interpreting this law. DUP have opposed change. Stella Creasey is looking to help NI women, will be interesting to see what DUP do and how they vote. Women in NI are so often terrified of this archaic legislation. Marie Stopes Clinic here runs counselling and support for them. Yes Eire may be the same but we haven't given Eire the right to the control UK Parliament and £1.5 billion of our tax payer money. I would not tell The Irish what they should do politically but I don't want them in powerful positions here.

Edited to add Stella Creasey's motion through this pm, not yet sure of details.

Corbyn was Mowlem's envoy to the IRA to seek to establish a basis for talks. He was involved before it was well known. Even Thatcher had talks with the IRA then. He sought peace as did we all. He is totally opposed to violence from any group. I don't know how many died in the troubles, over 500 Catholics I know but not sure how many Protestants. The thought of that starting up again because of May makes me sick to my guts.

Corbyn is anti coalition. If he has a minority it is up to other groups if they support proposals or not. The mood is now that we will win big. The feeling against this government is massive. Last nights jeering was totally sickening, I am hearing many Tories saying they will never vote Tory again. A lot of public school louts behaving like Bullingdon Club wannabees. The mood here has changed dramatically in the last three weeks.


I only saw lies on a bus on twitter. They were printed and circulated by Brexit groups including UKIP. We received 3 different leaflets, through the door all with blatant exaggerations or untruths. The UKIP bloke abused me when I told him we did not share his views. There is now a growing all party group back pedalling on Brexit.

I know you follow stuff here closely. Watch out for three things. Public sector strike calls. July 1st protests. July 12, Battle of the Boyne Orange Order Stuff. For other thread followers, the Battle of the Boyne was the start of a Protestant domination of Ireland. About 1690, still celebrated by Prots burning Catholic effigies and marching about in orange with drums.

My family came from Wexford, the beautiful rebel county, Southern Ireland, bottom right. A huge battle against English rule was fought in 1798. It was lost. "Poor Wexford stripped naked hung high on a cross" They say the great River Slaney ran red with blood. The Irish have very very long memories.

Sorry for typos, predictive spelling derives me nuts and I can't turn it off!

I'd written a long response to this and then lost as i was rushing away on a family break. Will respond in full when I can summon up the strength.!

 

[britbox]

Hi Britbox, tried to quote you and ended up with mixed quotes of you, Ann and myself.

Very little time today as have LP meetings.

My mothers family are Irish, I lived there for a time and have both Protestant and Catholic family North and South. I know the complexity.

I heard and saw Paisley speak live,actively urging violence against Catholics who at that time simply wanted civil rights. It is totally clear in my memory. The troubles were initially a civil rights issue. He was involved in the UDA, UVF and with some others founded the URM. Numerous Catholics were killed and the UVF secured arms on a big scale. It is said they are still around acting against catholics. To my family Paisley was a monster to the day he died and I agree with them. The DUP was grown from these groups and is hated by many NI people of both religions. They have an unanswered case to answer re alleged Saudi money provided to them to interfere with the referendum. Eire is also bitterly opposed to them.

The NI abortion law goes back to the 1860s and carries possible life prison sentences for those having or physically aiding abortion. There are numerous Human Rights criticisms and an Amnesty Int report which makes harrowing reading. I don't think life has been given in the last 50 years if ever but prison sentences have. There is no modern guidance as far as I know on interpreting this law. DUP have opposed change. Stella Creasey is looking to help NI women, will be interesting to see what DUP do and how they vote. Women in NI are so often terrified of this archaic legislation. Marie Stopes Clinic here runs counselling and support for them. Yes Eire may be the same but we haven't given Eire the right to the control UK Parliament and £1.5 billion of our tax payer money. I would not tell The Irish what they should do politically but I don't want them in powerful positions here.

Edited to add Stella Creasey's motion through this pm, not yet sure of details.

Corbyn was Mowlem's envoy to the IRA to seek to establish a basis for talks. He was involved before it was well known. Even Thatcher had talks with the IRA then. He sought peace as did we all. He is totally opposed to violence from any group. I don't know how many died in the troubles, over 500 Catholics I know but not sure how many Protestants. The thought of that starting up again because of May makes me sick to my guts.

Corbyn is anti coalition. If he has a minority it is up to other groups if they support proposals or not. The mood is now that we will win big. The feeling against this government is massive. Last nights jeering was totally sickening, I am hearing many Tories saying they will never vote Tory again. A lot of public school louts behaving like Bullingdon Club wannabees. The mood here has changed dramatically in the last three weeks.


I only saw lies on a bus on twitter. They were printed and circulated by Brexit groups including UKIP. We received 3 different leaflets, through the door all with blatant exaggerations or untruths. The UKIP bloke abused me when I told him we did not share his views. There is now a growing all party group back pedalling on Brexit.

I know you follow stuff here closely. Watch out for three things. Public sector strike calls. July 1st protests. July 12, Battle of the Boyne Orange Order Stuff. For other thread followers, the Battle of the Boyne was the start of a Protestant domination of Ireland. About 1690, still celebrated by Prots burning Catholic effigies and marching about in orange with drums.

My family came from Wexford, the beautiful rebel county, Southern Ireland, bottom right. A huge battle against English rule was fought in 1798. It was lost. "Poor Wexford stripped naked hung high on a cross" They say the great River Slaney ran red with blood. The Irish have very very long memories.

Sorry for typos, predictive spelling derives me nuts and I can't turn it off!

OK, wasn't aware Paisley was in the UVF/UDA/UFF... will have to check that out... although he was definitely a firebrand and very anti-catholic.

I don't see the DUP's stance on abortion as being wildly different from most other mainstream Irish parties, north or south of the border. The only reason they are being singled out on this issue is that they are entering into a pact with the Tories.

Corbyn has failed on numerous occasions over many years to denounce terrorism from Irish republicans. I'm not buying this peace loving character representation.

Coalition... we'll see. I think he'll need one and will find a way if it presents itself.

Orange Marches have been going on for hundreds of years... this is nothing new.

My wifes family are originally from Waterford before settling in Liverpool. I'm a unionist protestant and she's an Irish catholic by descent.