Top seasons of the Open Era

[Federberg]

Its also interesting that in 2006 Novak was 5 years before his peak year (2011) and he played Fed. In 2011 Fed was 5 years after his peak year (2006) when he was Novak's competition. Same criteria says Novak was Fed's competition too....... oh i get it, when it comes to Fed his opponents are either too young (underaged Nadal) or too old (like Agassi). But for Novak, it doesn't matter his opponent (Fed) is well into his 30s in 2015.

Anything goes as long as it looks good for Novak.

good point! And Novak didn't win any match against him. Yes an old guy still won 3 matches against prime Novak. Hmmmm...

 

[brokenshoelace]

The main reason I wouldn't put Novak's 2011 ahead of Fed's 2006 is that Novak went AWOL after the US Open. It's understandable, surely, as he had a back injury and was running on fumes, but numbers are numbers.

 

[Federberg]

^I agree with this. And when we initially discussed this, I made the same point. I was actually trying to compromise by giving 2011 a similar status to 2006, even though I think 2006 is superior. 92-5 is clearly superior to 70-6, no question about it. I mean Roger basically lost to Nadal 4 times and Murray once right? Novak lost to the likes of Ferrer and Tipsarevic for goodness sakes

 

[Mastoor]

Nice narrative Mastoor. Clever to leave out major winners like Hewitt, Safin and insert the likes of Del Potro who hardly hit a ball.

Very clever from you to remind me, however I always knew Fedophiles are so superficial that they would never bother looking at data.Why would you when you have your bias? Most shockingly that even applies for computer programmers among them. Have a look how many times Fed played with Hewitt in 2006 (zero!) and how many times he played with Safin in 2006 (zero as well) and then be a man and apologise here.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/players/roger-federer/f324/player-activity?year=2006

 

[Mastoor]

Also how come Agassi wasn't Feds competition if one includes Federer for Novak in 2015? both around mid 30s and one is conveniently forgotten. Mastoor can play this game all day long.

Same reason @retardo like for Safin and Hewitt, Federer never played him in 2006 and even if he played against him he was 36. That's the year in which Agassi retired after having 10-8 record. Do you people consider any facts or you just write stupid things out of your minds telling me that my facts are wrong?????

 

[Mastoor]

The main reason I wouldn't put Novak's 2011 ahead of Fed's 2006 is that Novak went AWOL after the US Open. It's understandable, surely, as he had a back injury and was running on fumes, but numbers are numbers.

And all the numbers are on Novak side. They have same number of slams, both won wtf, but No1e won 2 masters more than fed. What numbers did you think were on fed's side?

 

[Mastoor]

I've already agreed that the field in 2011 was brutal (as in really good). The top 4 were all going strong and making virtually every semi final. That alone makes it a great field.

But in 2015, I'm not buying it. How can you put so many qualifiers on Fed's opposition in 2006 while somehow not doing the same for Novak's 2015 opposition? You bring up Nadal while ignoring that he was literally a part timer that year, injured all the time, and had what at that point, was by far his worst season ever. Sorry, but Rafa was a non factor in 2015. Novak beating him at RG is more of a big deal because of Rafa's history there, rather than Rafa's form at the time. Not to mention, Novak didn't end up winning RG anyway.

Additionally, Novak didn't play Murray that year at any major after the AO. And Federer was 34 years old (if you're going to mention under-aged Rafa in 2006, I think we should mention over-aged Fed).

Which leaves us with hot and cold Wawrinka and nobody else.

I didn't bring any qualifiers on Fed's opposition I listed the best players Fed played in 2006. You have a look for yourself. same I did for Novak in 2015, I listed people who he played with? Would you like to make up his opposition in 2006, like some other people mentioned people Federer never played in 2006 as if they were his main opposition then like Safin, Hewitt and Agassi?

Besides how do you see as a better season Federer who was 4-4 against Grand Slam winners he played that year comparing to Novak's 2015 when he was 21-5 against Grand Slam winner. You can't see huge discrepancy between 4-4 in 2006 and 21-5 in 2015???

 

[Mastoor]

So bottom line is besides having better title record in 2015 to Federers 2006 (6 masters to Fed's 4), No1e had incomparably harder opposition. Federer played only 8 matches against slam winners in 2006 and half of those he lost, while Novak played 26 matches against slam winners and of those he won 21 (in words: twenty one wins in a season against people who won at least one slam, record unheard of).

 

[britbox]

Very clever from you to remind me, however I always knew Fedophiles are so superficial that they would never bother looking at data.Why would you when you have your bias? Most shockingly that even applies for computer programmers among them. Have a look how many times Fed played with Hewitt in 2006 (zero!) and how many times he played with Safin in 2006 (zero as well) and then be a man and apologise here.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/players/roger-federer/f324/player-activity?year=2006

Er... I asked why you put Del Potro in... and not those players... Del Potro never played Novak in 2015. Thanks for confirming...

 

[brokenshoelace]

So bottom line is besides having better title record in 2015 to Federers 2006 (6 masters to Fed's 4), No1e had incomparably harder opposition. Federer played only 8 matches against slam winners in 2006 and half of those he lost, while Novak played 26 matches against slam winners and of those he won 21 (in words: twenty one wins in a season against people who won at least one slam, record unheard of).

Are you seriously doing that thing where you just ignore evidence to the contrary and just keep repeating the same stuff (albeit in BOLD now)?

How is Novak's 2015 opposition incomparably better?

Federer was 34. Nadal was a non factor, no matter how you try to inflate Novak's record against "Grand Slam winners" by bringing up the times he beat him.

Leaving you with Wawrinka and Murray. That's literally it. There's not even anyone else of note. Like, none, whatsoever.

 

[brokenshoelace]

And all the numbers are on Novak side. They have same number of slams, both won wtf, but No1e won 2 masters more than fed. What numbers did you think were on fed's side?

Uh hate to break it to you but Novak didn't win the WTF in 2011. In fact, he got eliminated in the first round.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Do you people consider any facts or you just write stupid things out of your minds telling me that my facts are wrong?????

The irony of that in light of saying Novak won the WTF in 2011 and bringing up Del Potro as one of his 2015 competition is astounding.

 

[Mastoor]

Er... I asked why you put Del Potro in... and not those players... Del Potro never played Novak in 2015. Thanks for confirming...

I mentioned Del potro in mistake, but this reminds me - the fact that in 2006 six active slam winners didn't get to play Federer laso says how "hard" competition was then.

 

[Mastoor]

Are you seriously doing that thing where you just ignore evidence to the contrary and just keep repeating the same stuff (albeit in BOLD now)?

How is Novak's 2015 opposition incomparably better?

Federer was 34. Nadal was a non factor, no matter how you try to inflate Novak's record against "Grand Slam winners" by bringing up the times he beat him.

Leaving you with Wawrinka and Murray. That's literally it. There's not even anyone else of note. Like, none, whatsoever.

Federer, in his own words, never played better tennis then in 2015 and he said that several times. Nadal was off but still not that much that he should not be counted in, he was in top 5 wasn't he? I didn't "inflate" anything. I provided you with the facts and the fact is that Novak in 2015 had 21 wins against slam winners and much better players than those Federer faced in 2006 winning merely 4 times.

Even if it was fair to scale down his wins to Murray and Wawrinka like you suggest that is still better achievement than Federer's equivalent from 2006.

 

[Mastoor]

Uh hate to break it to you but Novak didn't win the WTF in 2011. In fact, he got eliminated in the first round.

There, you are right. My mistake about 2011 wtf, so I will have to think again if 2011 is the 3rd best year.

 

[Mastoor]

The irony of that in light of saying Novak won the WTF in 2011 and bringing up Del Potro as one of his 2015 competition is astounding.

Well, I did make two mistakes which I admitted. However, I must say I am disappointed neither you nor anyone else didn't provide the conversation with any valid arguments whatsoever for claiming that Novak 2015 is not the best season ever while being adamant it wasn't. As I said I will rethink of the place of his 2011. But so far I didn't see any valid reason why 2015 wouldn't be consider the best.

 

[Mastoor]

In the view of the fact pointed out that Nole didn't win wtf in 2011 which slipped my mind at first, I should revise the top of my list

1. 2015, 3 slams, WTF, 6 Masters
2. 2006, 3 slams, WTF, 4 masters
3. 2011, 3 slams,, 5 masters
4. 1969, Laver
5. 2010, Nadal

 

[Mastoor]

Federer was 34. Nadal was a non factor, no matter how you try to inflate Novak's record against "Grand Slam winners" by bringing up the times he beat him.
.

This bit is so shocking that I must come back to it. If Federer and Nadal were not factors in 2015, who do you think was a factor in 2006?

How's Federer non factor in 2015 just because of his age when he was ranked 2 or 3 all year long and he played finals of Wimbledon, US Open, and WTF besides 3 Masters, Cincinati he won as well as couple of other tournaments? Were there any players who were more factors in 2006 than he was in 2015, except for Rafa who woon his second RG that year? No.

How was Nadal non-factor if he was top 10 player all year long? Who are those Federer's 2006 rivals who were more factors than Nadal in 2015? Maybe Roddick and again Nadal that year.

Why did you exclude Cilic when he is comparable to Roddick? Just Western bias or you really think Roddick was so much better player?

 

[brokenshoelace]

This bit is so shocking that I must come back to it. If Federer and Nadal were not factors in 2015, who do you think was a factor in 2006?

How's Federer non factor in 2015 just because of his age when he was ranked 2 or 3 all year long and he played finals of Wimbledon, US Open, and WTF besides 3 Masters, Cincinati he won as well as couple of other tournaments? Were there any players who were more factors in 2006 than he was in 2015, except for Rafa who woon his second RG that year? No.

How was Nadal non-factor if he was top 10 player all year long? Who are those Federer's 2006 rivals who were more factors than Nadal in 2015? Maybe Roddick and again Nadal that year.

Why did you exclude Cilic when he is comparable to Roddick? Just Western bias or you really think Roddick was so much better player?

Well, this bit is not shocking because by now I'm used to the fact that you just don't fully process what you read.

Did I say Federer was a non factor? No. I said Nadal was a non factor. What did I say about Federer? That he was old. Period. Do you actually dispute that?

And your standard for Nadal being a factor is being a top 10 player all year now? Nadal? The same guy who's been in the top 2 for 10 years? The same guy who played Djokovic in countless finals? Him being a factor now was getting crushed by Tomas Berdych at the AO, struggling in the clay season of all places, lose in the second round at Wimbledon and the third round of the US Open? That's Nadal being a factor? Not winning a single Masters 1000 event? Not winning a slam for the first time ever? His best result as at a major was a quarter final. You seriously think none of Fed's competition in 2006 did better than a quarter final showing? So did Roger play against himself in semis and finals that year?

This is seriously one of your worst tennis related posts and that says a lot.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Federer, in his own words, never played better tennis then in 2015 and he said that several times. Nadal was off but still not that much that he should not be counted in, he was in top 5 wasn't he? I didn't "inflate" anything. I provided you with the facts and the fact is that Novak in 2015 had 21 wins against slam winners and much better players than those Federer faced in 2006 winning merely 4 times.

Even if it was fair to scale down his wins to Murray and Wawrinka like you suggest that is still better achievement than Federer's equivalent from 2006.

Ahahahaha, oh god.

So Federer, who won 3 majors a year 3 different times, and was pretty much guaranteed to play every final ever, never played better than he did in 2015? Please show me where he said that. Show me one of those "several times" where he claimed 2015 was the best he's ever played.

Nadal was off but "still not that much"? Are you kidding me?

His best result at a major in 2015 was a quarter final. A guy who's won 14 slams total. In 2008, Nadal played 2 slam finals and won them both, reached every slam semi, and won 3 Masters. In 2009, Nadal won a slam and 3 Masters. In 2010 Nadal played 3 GS finals. won all 3 and won 3 Masters.. In 2011, he played 3 GS finals and 5 Masters finals. He won a slam and a masters. In 2012, he played 2 GS finals, won one, and won 2 Masters despite only playing 6 months that year. In 2013, he played 2 GS finals, won both of them, and won 5 Masters titles. In 2014, again playing part time, he played 2 GS finals and won a slam and Masters. In 2015, he played 0 GS and didn't reach a single semi. He also won zero Masters. Which, in Mastoor, language, means the difference is "not by much."

But please, keep lecturing us about facts.