Too Hard on Mauresmo?

[nehmeth]

Todd Martin has absolutely nothing to do with Amelie Mauresmo. What part of Andy's game started failing like Novak's serve? Andy has been playing pretty aggressive a lot this season. He punched himself out playing aggressive at the AO final.

How is saying people have been to hard on her a ra-ra thread. Have your suspicions by all means. We all have suspicions and conjectures, but you are simply presenting an argument that is all conjecture and ad-hoc attacks on anyone who disagrees with you.

As I stated above, Martin is an obvious case of something that went badly wrong. Even though it was as horrible as it was - the words used, were still totally affirming, nothing about poor coaching or mechanics... 'he just didn't understand me'.

I wasn't comparing Martin and Mauresmo was I? No I was comparing the wording during a transition of someone who obviously did not work, with the wording about someone whom I personally believe team Murray may have realized wasn't their best choice.

I think someone better suited could have gotten him on track quicker and without those horrid bouts of running tirades with himself on court. But that's just conjecture, without which there would be no boards.

Fair enough. Although, there is no evidence Murray or his team thinks she didn't work out. The end (or intermission) of their coaching relationship is due to her pregnancy (or conspiracy). It is a weird time though to end if not for pregnancy, considering he has had sustained good results under her during the last couple months. The time to fire her would have been the off-season, when Andy still didn't have much to show for their coaching relationship.

Again if you want to ding it by using "conspiracy", fine. That's not my point. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy. There's a way of transitioning people that occurs and it follows a certain track. Your point about them not dumping her at the end of the season is good. I have a few thoughts on that, but we can discuss it via PM if you'd like.

 

[Riotbeard]

But she has worked out? Or at least prove that she hasn't. I mean Andy went from crap, post surgery (ranked around 7-8 right to now closing in on #2).

With Nadal playing as he has been and Roger aging... with or without Mauresmo Andy should be at #3, closing in on #2. You can't prove to me she's been an asset . Certainly not by him simply getting back to where he's always been.

The burden of proof though is on you to disprove Murray's quotes and that she had nothing to do with his recent results. All the rest of us are doing is taking it at face value. No one is arguing that she is an inspired choice or that she revolutionized Murray's game, just that she should credit when things go well, just like she got criticized when Murray wasn't playing well.

 

[Riotbeard]

As I stated above, Martin is an obvious case of something that went badly wrong. Even though it was as horrible as it was - the words used, were still totally affirming, nothing about poor coaching or mechanics... 'he just didn't understand me'.

I wasn't comparing Martin and Mauresmo was I? No I was comparing the wording during a transition of someone who obviously did not work, with the wording about someone whom I personally believe team Murray may have realized wasn't their best choice.

I think someone better suited could have gotten him on track quicker and without those horrid bouts of running tirades with himself on court. But that's just conjecture, without which there would be no boards.

Fair enough. Although, there is no evidence Murray or his team thinks she didn't work out. The end (or intermission) of their coaching relationship is due to her pregnancy (or conspiracy). It is a weird time though to end if not for pregnancy, considering he has had sustained good results under her during the last couple months. The time to fire her would have been the off-season, when Andy still didn't have much to show for their coaching relationship.

Again if you want to ding it by using "conspiracy", fine. That's not my point. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy. There's a way of transitioning people that occurs and it follows a certain track. Your point about them not dumping her at the end of the season is good. I have a few thoughts on that, but we can discuss it via PM if you'd like.

I was saying conspiracy in a literal sense. There is a plot to make it appear as one thing to the public (that the pregnancy is the cause of the coaching shift) that is not the case behind the scenes. A conspiracy. Not all conspiracies are aliens or 911 truthers. People conspire behind the scenes all the time.

Edit: I was saying... not you are saying.

 

[nehmeth]

But she has worked out? Or at least prove that she hasn't. I mean Andy went from crap, post surgery (ranked around 7-8 right to now closing in on #2).

With Nadal playing as he has been and Roger aging... with or without Mauresmo Andy should be at #3, closing in on #2. You can't prove to me she's been an asset . Certainly not by him simply getting back to where he's always been.

The burden of proof though is on you to disprove Murray's quotes and that she had nothing to do with his recent results. All the rest of us are doing is taking it at face value. No one is arguing that she is an inspired choice or that she revolutionized Murray's game, just that she should credit when things go well, just like she got criticized when Murray wasn't playing well.

No, I don't have to disprove anything. I was asked why I thought a certain way and I answered it. With personal observation and opinion - conjecture.

Murray is the rightful #3, as he has the game to be there. As Roger ages, he should move up to #2. I think Murray could have gotten there just as fast without Amelie, and more rapidly than he has with her. Let's see how much he improves with Bjorkman and go from there. (Personally I am quite happy with Nole beating him every time they meet and do not want to see that change).

 

[Riotbeard]

(Personally I am quite happy with Nole beating him every time they meet and do not want to see that change).

Well we can agree on this!

 

[Federberg]

^And they all lived happily ever after!

 

[nehmeth]

Although, there is no evidence Murray or his team thinks she didn't work out.

None on his present team, no. There were those who had been on his team for years, good friends, that were not at all in agreement with his choosing her.

"He allegedly had not consulted on the Mauresmo hire with neither his long-time friend, hitting partner, and unofficial coach of five years, Dani Vallverdu, nor his physical trainer Jez Green, who had been with Murray for seven years. The two men reportedly grew increasingly disillusioned as Murray’s year went on.

Mauresmo’s relatively low-key coaching style and her unwillingness to fling heart and soul into the job also raised eyebrows in some quarters. She never did want her position to be full-time—they agreed on 25 weeks—which further alienated Vallverdu and Green. The longstanding Murray team broke up last November, leaving bitter feelings all around, and Mauresmo the last woman standing."


http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/05/andys-world/54844/#.VVntiZNViko

 

[Federberg]

^I'm not sure I would read it as the team not being in agreement to choose her. I think the issue was that Andy didn't consult his team at all. He just presented her to them as the new coach. Not exactly respectful of their view points, but entirely within his rights as the boss. I can see how that could creat a problem, but I've not heard anywhere that they objected to her presence. Just the way it was done

 

[nehmeth]

^I'm not sure I would read it as the team not being in agreement to choose her. I think the issue was that Andy didn't consult his team at all. He just presented her to them as the new coach. Not exactly respectful of their view points, but entirely within his rights as the boss. I can see how that could creat a problem, but I've not heard anywhere that they objected to her presence. Just the way it was done

No. That might have been it initially, but I highlighted two subsequent statements... the not consulting them might have been the initial thing, but longtime friends do not cut ties over something that minor. Obviously, they did not think she or her way of doing things was best for Andy.

In any event, she's on her way out...

 

[Federberg]

^I'm not sure I would read it as the team not being in agreement to choose her. I think the issue was that Andy didn't consult his team at all. He just presented her to them as the new coach. Not exactly respectful of their view points, but entirely within his rights as the boss. I can see how that could creat a problem, but I've not heard anywhere that they objected to her presence. Just the way it was done

No. That might have been it initially, but I highlighted two subsequent statements... the not consulting them might have been the initial thing, but longtime friends do not cut ties over something that minor. Obviously, they did not think she or her way of doing things was best for Andy.

In any event, she's on her way out...

Yup. I saw what you highlighted. To me though, it makes more sense, for the split to have occurred because they felt cut out of the decision making and thus disrespected or not valued. If they were ok with his decision and left because they weren't happy with how she was doing things, they weren't good friends at all

 

[nehmeth]

^I'm not sure I would read it as the team not being in agreement to choose her. I think the issue was that Andy didn't consult his team at all. He just presented her to them as the new coach. Not exactly respectful of their view points, but entirely within his rights as the boss. I can see how that could creat a problem, but I've not heard anywhere that they objected to her presence. Just the way it was done

No. That might have been it initially, but I highlighted two subsequent statements... the not consulting them might have been the initial thing, but longtime friends do not cut ties over something that minor. Obviously, they did not think she or her way of doing things was best for Andy.

In any event, she's on her way out...

Yup. I saw what you highlighted. To me though, it makes more sense, for the split to have occurred because they felt cut out of the decision making and thus disrespected or not valued. If they were ok with his decision and left because they weren't happy with how she was doing things, they weren't good friends at all

We read and glean things very differently... and draw different conclusions.

 

[Federberg]

No. That might have been it initially, but I highlighted two subsequent statements... the not consulting them might have been the initial thing, but longtime friends do not cut ties over something that minor. Obviously, they did not think she or her way of doing things was best for Andy.

In any event, she's on her way out...

Yup. I saw what you highlighted. To me though, it makes more sense, for the split to have occurred because they felt cut out of the decision making and thus disrespected or not valued. If they were ok with his decision and left because they weren't happy with how she was doing things, they weren't good friends at all

We read and glean things very differently... and draw different conclusions.

That we do! :snicker

 

[nehmeth]

Who cares about Munich?

With that honey of a car? You should. I certainly do.

 

[Riotbeard]

In any event, she's on her way out...

At least temporarily, haha... after Wimbledon.

 

[nehmeth]

In any event, she's on her way out...

At least temporarily, haha... after Wimbledon.

Single Mom with a newborn?? We'll see.

Now tell me that car didn't make you care at least a little more about winning Munich.

 

[Federberg]

In any event, she's on her way out...

At least temporarily, haha... after Wimbledon.

Single Mom with a newborn?? We'll see.

Now tell me that car didn't make you care at least a little more about winning Munich.

Do you really think he's going to all this effort for marketing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/32779092

 

[Riotbeard]

In any event, she's on her way out...

At least temporarily, haha... after Wimbledon.

Single Mom with a newborn?? We'll see.

Now tell me that car didn't make you care at least a little more about winning Munich.

It would make me care, haha. I think Murray can have whatever car he wants.

 

[Riotbeard]

At least temporarily, haha... after Wimbledon.

Single Mom with a newborn?? We'll see.

Now tell me that car didn't make you care at least a little more about winning Munich.

Do you really think he's going to all this effort for marketing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/32779092

Another irony is that once Vallverdu and the trainer left, Murray's results improved not declining, calling into question the importance of the fall apart of his team.

 

[Billie]

Do you really think he's going to all this effort for marketing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/32779092

That is a nice article about Andy and his position of the matter in question, thanks for posting it federberg. I don't think he has any hidden agenda behind his views and convictions and I think they are admirable. I am not going to go into the whole debate if Amelie helps him or not, if HE likes having her as his coach, I am not the person to say otherwise. The bit about him being able to talk openly with a woman better than a bunch of guys is telling.

I rarely have any opinion about these matters. Even when it comes to my favorite player, let alone others. It's their career, their money, their success or their failures at the end of the day. These things are out of my control.

 

[nehmeth]

At least temporarily, haha... after Wimbledon.

Single Mom with a newborn?? We'll see.

Now tell me that car didn't make you care at least a little more about winning Munich.

Do you really think he's going to all this effort for marketing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/32779092

I just read that today, and hell ya - that will sell super well. He'll be to the toast of the MSM and will endear himself to all the correct people. Are they his convictions? There is no reason to believe they aren't. That doesn't mean he isn't working it for all it's worth.