Time to crown Novak the GOAT?

[Jelenafan]

Is that the only standby argument for Rafa? Mon Dieu; pretty much proves what I've been saying as his resume's so unbalanced in favor of clay!

Not at all. I’ve mentioned before he is a threat on other surfaces, but until this year he was as close as a slam dunk on red clay at Roland Garos as anyone in modern tennis era. Even you cannot deny that, though you seem deliberately desengenuous about his 7 nonclay Majors.

In a prior era its like liking Sampras’ chances on grass, ditto Federer in this era.

So if Nadal has a great shot on red clay yet again, (13 titles) it squares off that in the Major race its stacking the odds as to how people will do in the upcoming ones. Novak has won 11 titles on HC so I figured that surface is his best shot, but in no way am I implying Rafa can't won on other Majors.
That's your agenda, not mine. ; )

 

[Moxie]

Let's face it, as @Federberg said, this comment didn't age well.

 

[monfed]

Joe needed the CYGS to catapult him above Fedal. He simply doesn't have the same popularity that Fedal have so now he's back to third wheel.

Now people will only remember Fedal. It will be even worse for Joe if this loss has finished him where he won't be able to come back next year to win more slams.

If Joe loses AO next year, he's officially finished.

People don't seem to realise that GOAT is a popularity contest. There is no official GOAT title given by the ATP, no list of requirements that says you have to win this n that to be the GOAT. It's a fictional term essentially so what matters is who the public thinks is the GOAT and the consensus is with Federer.

 

[El Dude]

Joe needed the CYGS to catapult him above Fedal. He simply doesn't have the same popularity that Fedal have so now he's back to third wheel.

Now people will only remember Fedal. It will be even worse for Joe if this loss has finished him where he won't be able to come back next year to win more slams.

If Joe loses AO next year, he's officially finished.

People don't seem to realise that GOAT is a popularity contest. There is no official GOAT title given by the ATP, no list of requirements that says you have to win this n that to be the GOAT. It's a fictional term essentially so what matters is who the public thinks is the GOAT and the consensus is with Federer.

I...nevermind. I just can't.

 

[Front242]

Nadal still the Goat and sadly for you Federer 4th all time behind laver, Djokovic Nadal.

Keep smoking the funny stuff, ya loon. They all have great achievements but there's no way Nadal is above them both and you know it.

 

[monfed]

I...nevermind. I just can't.

Ok how about now? https://wearetennis.bnpparibas/fr/a...4335-novak-djokovic-ne-peut-plus-etre-le-goat

Use google translate.

 

[Kieran]

Let's face it, as @Federberg said, this comment didn't age well.

Novak is the only truly great player I know of who gives hostages to fortune this way. There’s something lacking in him, that he seems to yap before he thinks. So he did it at the Olympics, and he did it in New York the day before the final, telling the world and its daughter how he’d treat the final like it’s his last match and if Medvedev was to beat him he’d have to be prepared to fight a Spartan warrior legion in full regalia, when in fact, Novak’s ship sunk on a dry dock.

I can’t imagine Pete Sampras or Rafa or Roger or Bjorn coming out with such statements. And then, to cap it off, he blubbed like Sally Field at 4-5 in the third, because, as she famously said, “you really like me, you really like me!” when he heard the crowd cheering him. I always felt it was a bit of a cliché to say that Novak wants too much to be liked, but when you’re trying to mount a comeback from a bellyflop in the biggest match of your life but you’re suddenly distracted to tears by the cheering of the mob, your head really isn’t in the right place…

 

[Andy22]

Keep smoking the funny stuff, ya loon. They all have great achievements but there's no way Nadal is above them both and you know it.

I never said Nadal was above both just Fakerer I would put Djokovic CO-GOAT with Nadal right now. Which is why I still call Nadal Goat because he is CO-GOAT right now. Federer 5th all time behind laver ,Djokovic Nadal Roy.Emerson.

 

[Kieran]

I never said Nadal was above both just Fakerer I would put Djokovic CO-GOAT with Nadal right now. Which is why I still call Nadal Goat because he is CO-GOAT right now. Federer 5th all time behind laver ,Djokovic Nadal Roy.Emerson.

Now you’re showing your innocence. On what basis have you included Roy Emerson in this list?

 

[monfed]

Even if you want to ignore CYGS (this will be hard to do after yesterday's defeat and that one man has won it), when you have 3 players at 20 slams, it's not possible to conclusively say #21 or 22 makes you the GOAT. At the level of 20 slams, you really have to pull away from the pack by 4 or 5 slams to say that you're the GOAT.

 

[El Dude]

Ok how about now? https://wearetennis.bnpparibas/fr/a...4335-novak-djokovic-ne-peut-plus-etre-le-goat

Use google translate.

I remain unconvinced. He isn't the clear and obvious GOAT, but he has the best case of the three. IMO, of course.

 

[El Dude]

Even if you want to ignore CYGS (this will be hard to do after yesterday's defeat and that one man has won it), when you have 3 players at 20 slams, it's not possible to conclusively say #21 or 22 makes you the GOAT. At the level of 20 slams, you really have to pull away from the pack by 4 or 5 slams to say that you're the GOAT.

Yes, I've said the same thing. But...there are other factors. There are weeks at #1, World Tour Finals, Masters, overall titles, etc etc.

Slams are the biggest factor in assessing greatness, but aren't the only factor.

 

[El Dude]

On a side note, this is kind of interesting.

Number of years with 3, 2, and 1 Slam titles:

Roger: 3/3/5
Novak: 3/3/5
Rafa: 1/4/9

I'm not saying this means anything, but it is interesting to note that Novak and Roger have the exact same spread, while Rafa's is more distributed with fewer dominant years - only one with three Slams - but more years (14) in which he won at least one Slam (compared to 11 for the other two).

 

[monfed]

I remain unconvinced. He isn't the clear and obvious GOAT, but he has the best case of the three. IMO, of course.

Then keep being unconvinced and living in your delusions because Federer is clearly better than Joe on fast HC, grass, indoors, equal on clay and only inferior on slow HC. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact backed by numbers and level of play.

If you want to go by intangibles since what you're saying is it's your opinion against mine, then Fed is considered better by like 90% of the tennis world including me.

Let me be even more blunt since you love my bluntness - Joe doesn't pass the eye test for GOAT status. Federer does and by miles. Nadal does on clay. Joe is a pusher and a pusher can never be the GOAT. He will always be behind Fedal. Always. He had his one shot to catapult him above Fedal and he blew it. Deal with it or don't. Nobody cares.

 

[El Dude]

Then keep being unconvinced and living in your delusions because Federer is clearly better than Joe on fast HC, grass, indoors, equal on clay and only inferior on slow HC. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact backed by numbers and level of play.

You can't just say "it's a fact backed by numbers," at least if you want to be taken seriously. You have to actually provide said numbers.

If you want to go by intangibles since what you're saying is it's your opinion against mine, then Fed is considered better by like 90% of the tennis world including me.

Again, another baseless assertion. I've heard more players--who have played both at their peak--give the edge to Novak.

But sure, 90% of people like Justin Bieber more than Miles Davis.

Let me be even more blunt since you love my bluntness - Joe doesn't pass the eye test for GOAT status. Federer does and by miles. Nadal does on clay. Joe is a pusher and a pusher can never be the GOAT. He will always be behind Fedal. Always. He had his one shot to catapult him above Fedal and he blew it. Deal with it or don't. Nobody cares.

Look, I prefer Federer's style. He's my favorite player of all time. But in the end, greatness should primarily (if not only) be about results. Not style or grace or likability, but how good a player is at beating other players, consistently over time. At most, those factors could be used as tie-breakers.

Right now, I think it is very close and prefer the "three headed GOAT" answer. But if I had to choose just one as the GOAT, it would be Novak. And of course, it is far more likely that Novak will pad his resume and gain some distance on the other two.

 

[Fiero425]

You can't just say "it's a fact backed by numbers," at least if you want to be taken seriously. You have to actually provide said numbers.

Again, another baseless assertion. I've heard more players--who have played both at their peak--give the edge to Novak.

But sure, 90% of people like Justin Bieber more than Miles Davis.

Look, I prefer Federer's style. He's my favorite player of all time. But in the end, greatness should primarily (if not only) be about results. Not style or grace or likability, but how good a player is at beating other players, consistently over time. At most, those factors could be used as tie-breakers.

Right now, I think it is very close and prefer the "three headed GOAT" answer. But if I had to choose just one as the GOAT, it would be Novak. And of course, it is far more likely that Novak will pad his resume and gain some distance on the other two.

As impressive as Novak's record, no one else but me seems to acknowledge, he's not only matched or succeeded Fedal, he did it in record time! So many have made such a big deal about the age disparity, but forget to make note he's surpassed Federer over 6 years ahead of him!

 

[El Dude]

As impressive as Novak's record, no one else but me seems to acknowledge, he's not only matched or succeeded Fedal, he did it in record time! So many have made such a big deal about the age disparity, but forget to make note he's surpassed Federer over 6 years ahead of him!

That's not quite true. Roger won his 20th Slam at the AO in 2018, when he was 36 years old. Novak won his 20th at RG when he was 34. So it was 2 years ahead, or 2.5 if you want to be exact.

Rafa's 20th was also at 34.

 

[Fiero425]

That's not quite true. Roger won his 20th Slam at the AO in 2018, when he was 36 years old. Novak won his 20th at RG when he was 34. So it was 2 years ahead, or 2.5 if you want to be exact.

Rafa's 20th was also at 34.

Like 20 is the only thing out there! I expected better from you El! Make me a liar? Thx! Forget about Wks. & YE #1's, Double GM's & CGS, etc,!

 

[El Dude]

Like 20 is the only thing out there! I expected better from you El! Make me a liar? Thx! Forget about Wks. & YE #1's, Double GM's & CGS, etc,!

You gave a definitive number, so I wasn't sure what you are talking about. You listed a bunch of things, all of which have different time frames for when he surpassed Roger.

I don't see what applies to "6 years," though.

 

[monfed]

You can't just say "it's a fact backed by numbers," at least if you want to be taken seriously. You have to actually provide said numbers.

Again, another baseless assertion. I've heard more players--who have played both at their peak--give the edge to Novak.

But sure, 90% of people like Justin Bieber more than Miles Davis.

Look, I prefer Federer's style. He's my favorite player of all time. But in the end, greatness should primarily (if not only) be about results. Not style or grace or likability, but how good a player is at beating other players, consistently over time. At most, those factors could be used as tie-breakers.

Right now, I think it is very close and prefer the "three headed GOAT" answer. But if I had to choose just one as the GOAT, it would be Novak. And of course, it is far more likely that Novak will pad his resume and gain some distance on the other two.

You a Federer fan hahahahaahha ahahahaha. You're as much a Federer fan as I'm a Joekovic fan hahahahaha!

Comparing Federer to Justin Bieber and calls himself a Federer fan hahahahaha

Federer is the Pink Floyd of tennis = popular AND got the records. Federer's prime = Pink Floyd's DSOTM = greatest album of all time=zenith of tennis!

You sound like those indie music hipsters running around telling everyone that Radiohead is better than Pink Floyd and that we're dumb and stupid for liking Floyd. Go troll someone else, champ. I'll let my eyes and my knowledge and experience in tennis decide who the GOAT is.

Right now it's between Federer and Laver with slight edge to Laver because he has the grand slam but gamewise Federer is and always will be the GOAT. Simples.