Cali, I missed you - you're such a trip.
calitennis127 said:
Well, I wouldn't expect you to point out what was most encouraging from Federer in this match (because it would throw a monkey wrench in your age-ism): while Djokovic was the better overall player from the baseline and it was Federer's serving that was key for him throughout the match, the level that Federer displayed from the baseline in the 4th and 5th sets was terrific, particularly in the break-back games of the 4th set. His movement was phenomenal and he started clicking with the running forehand as well as backhands where he took the ball early.
I agree. He looked great out there, although did seem to wear down in the 5th with so many weak errors and his serve falling away. But ageism, Cali? Really? Only because I point out, I don't know, facts?!
Are you aware of the FACT that only one player in the last
four decades has won a Grand Slam event at Roger Federer's age, and that is Andre Agassi? Check out the list of Open Era 30+ year olds winning Grand Slams:
1968 - French Open (Rosewall, 33)
1969 - All (Laver, three at 30, one at 31)
1970 - US Open (Rosewall, 35)
1971 - Australian Open (Rosewall, 36)
1972 - Australian Open (Rosewall, 37), French Open (Gimeno, 34)
1975 - Australian Open (Newcombe, 30), Wimbledon (Ashe, 31)
1982 - US Open (Connors, 30)
1983 - US Open (Connors, 31)
1990 - French Open (Gomez, 30)
1998 - Australian Open (Korda, 30)
2001 - Australian Open (Agassi, 30)
2002 - US Open (Sampras, 31)
2003 - Australian Open (Agassi, 32)
2012 - Wimbledon (Federer, 30)
See, I just did all of that research for you, my dear friend. Notice a couple things:
1) There have been 186 Grand Slam tournaments of the Open Era, of which 18 have been won by 30+ year olds. That's 10.2%.
2) Of those 19, 11 were won in 1975 or before. From 1976 to the present, a span of 39 years and 155 Slams, only 8 have been won - which is 5.2%.
3) Taking that even further, only 6 Slams have been won in the Open Era by 32+ year olds, and only one since 1972, the last 42 years!
So I don't think it is "ageist" to suggest that winning a Slam in your 30s--especially age 32 or older--is a very difficult thing to do.
Moving on...
calitennis127 said:
You just won't let go of this one, will you?
El Dude: you, like so many others (including most of Nadal's fans), misunderstand his success. Nadal never has been the "#1 player in the sport" in terms of level. He has won many of his biggest titles by parasitically sucking the life out of more talented shotmakers and weaseling his way to victories.
Was he a better player than Djokovic when he beat him at the US Open last year? Absolutely not. He was playing outstanding by his own standards, but as Djokovic has said, he (Novak) should have won that match.
We've worn these tires down before. I don't understand why you have such a difficult time understanding that a player is only as good as his results (or his success). To put it another way, there are many factors that go into results/success; you focus on only some of them and call that "level." That's all well and dandy, but is terribly partial. At the end of the day, a player is as good as his record says, and Rafa Nadal is pretty damn good.
In other words, if he's a parasite then he's damn good one! And furthermore, he has proven that "parasitism" can be a very effective path to greatness.
Let me use a quick baseball analogy to illustrate the point. A pitcher can throw the best curveball in the business but if they don't have a good fastball (with movement and location, to boot), and a decent changeup, they probably won't be a great pitcher. What I hear you saying is "Rafa's curveball is only decent, therefore he's not great." But Rafa throws a lot of other pitches, and the overall result is devastating.
calitennis127 said:
El Dude said:
His clay court season wasn't quite as potent as in years past and he struggled on grass.
Sir, of what do you speak?
Again, look at the results. From 2005 to 2014 there were only two years in which Rafa didn't win at least two clay Masters, 2011 when Novak ruled the roost, and 2014.
He was still quite dominant, but the edge was taken off a bit by losing to Ferrer and Almagro.
calitennis127 said:
You need to better understand the science of gnat-ology. He will be around, lurking and ready to pounce as soon as Djokovic, Federer, Dimitrov, Murray, Del Potro (when he comes back), etc. slip up.
You make it sound like Rafa only wins when someone else loses, rather than what I've seen time and time again: Rafa makes people lose.
calitennis127 said:
Personally, I pulled for Murray to win Wimbledon because I knew just how badly he wanted it and how much it meant to his country. That said, I really don't want to see him win any more Majors because I find his playing style to mostly be pretty boring and I don't think he is a very interesting player to watch. He got his first Major, then he got his Wimbledon trophy; anything more is not something I care to see.
I agree, actually. I was cheering Andy on before he won his first Slam, and then again last year at Wimbledon. But now I'd rather others win.
calitennis127 said:
Agreed. He is very talented, and the next two years is his time to step up and make it happen.
Did you catch my worst-case scenario for him in that other thread?
calitennis127 said:
I think Kyrgios is a much better prospect. Raonic is not very interesting.
I agree. I didn't mention Kyrgios because I think he's got some bumps in the road ahead of him. Who knows, maybe he's arrived but I think he's still got to work his way into the mix. Still, he looks really, really close. But I think he'll be more of a threat in 2015 and beyond, and more of a curiosity this year.
That said, right now I'd rate Kyrgios behind only Dimitrov and Raonic of the Young Guns, and ahead of Vesely, Thiem, Janowicz, and everyone else (I'm not sure if I count Nishikori, as he turns 25 this year). Long-term his outlook may be even better than Dimitrov.
calitennis127 said:
He did have good results in Monte Carlo, Madrid, and Roland Garros. I wouldn't write him off just yet. Talent-wise, he is more in the 6-10 range as opposed to the 1-5 range anyway.
Again, agreed. Perhaps it is less of a drop-off in talent and more of just a coming down to earth.