There are no unforced errors in tennis...Convince me otherwise!

Chris Koziarz

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This conversation reminds me of a comic strip I used to read.

Screen-Shot-2015-03-18-at-18.30.24.png
In the middle of it, I thought Lawrence would understand "nuts" as "nutters" - mad or eccentric people - and he would "avoid any contact" with them and his compulsory nut eating disorder be the result of his developing social anxiety. That would be even better.
 
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Murat Baslamisli

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Good suggestion. Such correction would make my task of proving Murat being wrong (according to his own wish in his intro post) a bit more challenging but I would take that challenge on board. All of my arguments about language would still apply. I'm trying as much as I can to satisfy him (i.e. make him wrong) even though he might not like me for doing so. Perhaps he notes the irony and be with us.
I like you brother :) I am easy . I just have certain opinions that I have arrived at after a long time and just like everyone else, they are never perfect. I try though...That is why I am open to being proven wrong :) A lot of people I know are victims to their ideologies. Ideology stops you from thinking, at least in high resolution.
Got to put the language thing aside though, agree to disagree there.
Sticking to tennis. All I am asking is this: Would not it be more accurate to call it a "cheap" or "easy" error, as opposed to unforced, when it is clear that in the overwhelming majority of the cases you are forced to hit a shot? Just help me out here :)
 

Chris Koziarz

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I like you brother :) I am easy . I just have certain opinions that I have arrived at after a long time and just like everyone else, they are never perfect. I try though...That is why I am open to being proven wrong :) A lot of people I know are victims to their ideologies. Ideology stops you from thinking, at least in high resolution.
Got to put the language thing aside though, agree to disagree there.
Sticking to tennis. All I am asking is this: Would not it be more accurate to call it a "cheap" or "easy" error, as opposed to unforced, when it is clear that in the overwhelming majority of the cases you are forced to hit a shot? Just help me out here :)
Yes, I am perfectly fine with the change of the term from "unforced error" to "cheap error", although I don't really care as much as you do. So we could have a "forced error" and "cheap error" in match comments and stats captions. We change the names sometimes as our language evolves. Those who gave the name in the first place, might have been careless and the name might have been misleading or imprecise. If we find a better name we may want to substitute an old name at some point. In this case of course, you have to convince ATP that your name is better, because there will be plenty of people who disagree with your name. I, as said above, don't care.
So we found ourselves agreeing on this bit Murat, well done! I agree now because a change of the term is a different issue than a removal of the term. It might have been lack of clarity and/or misunderstanding, but in previous posts you've been advocating for the removal of the term "unforced error" without replacing said term with any alternative, and just calling every error "forced".
 
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Moxie

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Murat, as a Nadal fan, I'm inclined to your theory. Folks are forever complaining that player X blew his chances and so Nadal lucked into another win, when the truth is he forced them into error over and over. I believe there are more forced errors than unforced ones in tennis, but I do believe that the unforced error exists. I'm not sure why "cheap" or "easy" error works better. You could also opt for "lazy," but they are, in the end, "unforced." I think what you may mean is that it's a "cheap" or "easy" win of a point for the opponent, but I'm not sure that's what's intended by the way it's scored.
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Murat, as a Nadal fan, I'm inclined to your theory. Folks are forever complaining that player X blew his chances and so Nadal lucked into another win, when the truth is he forced them into error over and over. I believe there are more forced errors than unforced ones in tennis, but I do believe that the unforced error exists. I'm not sure why "cheap" or "easy" error works better. You could also opt for "lazy," but they are, in the end, "unforced." I think what you may mean is that it's a "cheap" or "easy" win of a point for the opponent, but I'm not sure that's what's intended by the way it's scored.
Nadal is the perfect example why UFEs do not exist :). In my opinion "cheap" or "easy" or 'lazy" they all work better because they do not ignore the other person on the other side of the net, like the word "unforced" does.
Question: You hit a great shot and a really weak reply comes back close to the net...a sitter waiting to be punished. The guy who sent the weak reply runs to the side that he thinks the ball will be sent to. He guesses right but the ball is hit wide and he wins the point. Is this a forced or unforced error?
 

Moxie

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It's not even just "guessing right." A lot of times the opponent is just anticipating correctly. When you see them there, you blow the shot. We see it all the time, too, in the notion that you charge the net, and they blow the point. Or, as you say, someone like Nadal makes a shot too difficult to handle, so you don't. That's Rafa's money: he doesn't have to hit the winner if the other guy can't return his shot. Some people are just sluts for winners. They seem to think forcing the error isn't as good. That I don't get.
 

Ricardo

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Nadal is the perfect example why UFEs do not exist :). In my opinion "cheap" or "easy" or 'lazy" they all work better because they do not ignore the other person on the other side of the net, like the word "unforced" does.
Question: You hit a great shot and a really weak reply comes back close to the net...a sitter waiting to be punished. The guy who sent the weak reply runs to the side that he thinks the ball will be sent to. He guesses right but the ball is hit wide and he wins the point. Is this a forced or unforced error?
Your opinion is simply wrong, and unnecessary whinge. Cheap, lazy and easy errors are UFEs by definition.....the tennis world goes by it, not your personal definition that’s fits your criteria. Let’s say Novak was playing someone much inferior, he knows he can win no matter what, is under no pressure at all, carelessly serves a double fault (return would be shit anyway) but it’s not ok to call it UFE in your opinion. Guess what, this whole post is a whinge out of nothing. UFE and FE are all part of the game, always have been and always will be. Nobody except some here would be stupid enough to expand in the stats category for ‘easy errors’, ‘lazy errors’ or whatever bollock...you can take that for granted.
 

Ricardo

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Murat, as a Nadal fan, I'm inclined to your theory. Folks are forever complaining that player X blew his chances and so Nadal lucked into another win, when the truth is he forced them into error over and over. I believe there are more forced errors than unforced ones in tennis, but I do believe that the unforced error exists. I'm not sure why "cheap" or "easy" error works better. You could also opt for "lazy," but they are, in the end, "unforced." I think what you may mean is that it's a "cheap" or "easy" win of a point for the opponent, but I'm not sure that's what's intended by the way it's scored.
Theory my ass, it’s just bollock out of nothing.
 

mrzz

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To paraphrase Tolstoy:

“All winners are alike; each unforced error is unforced in its own way.”

Even if I may disagree with each and every post you make from here to eternity, I will still be your fan just because of this one.
 

Jelenafan

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Mrzz,

In my younger days I used to play this guy who owned me, the man had a wicked serve. In my hubris I rationalized that I was the “better” player because my groundies usually won in longer rallies and I was a bit quicker on the court.

Somehow I got into a tight match with him ( his serve was slightly off that day) and late in the 3rd set I had breakpoint on his serve. He served a fairly easy medium paced serve to my BH, my bread and butter. All I had to do was hit a nice clean cross court BH to get him out of position.

I made an UFE, hit the backhand wide because I was threading the line too much.

UFE’s errors haunt you I tell ya!
 
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Front242

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Anyone who watched that horror fest last night between Federer and Nishikori can easily say unforced errors are a reality. Neither guy played particularly well but Federer was playing like an amateur. The amount of shanks, shots hit miles wide or serves blown miles long or into the middle of the net was an embarrassment.

That wasn't pressure from the opponent because he wasn't playing well either. It was just amateurish play and truck loads of unforced errors.
 
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