The Ultimate FEDAL (Wars) Thread

[the AntiPusher]

[split] The Ultimate FEDAL thread

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

Somehow I am missing your point, it takes physical ability to hit slice or flat balls for hours, that's all the same as hitting top spin no difference.,It's Rafa mentality as a baseline grinder that has cause the wear and tear on his body.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

Somehow I am missing your point, it takes physical ability to hit slice or flat balls for hours, that's all the same as hitting top spin no difference.,It's Rafa mentality as a baseline grinder that has cause the wear and tear on his body.

AP, I have to disagree with your point there. There is no way the kind of forehand Rafa hits needs the same energy as a flat ball or a slice. Rafa spends way more energy hitting that forehand. He uses way more wrist, arm, elbow, racket head speed...more of everything. If he neglects power in any of those parts, his balls will be going out of the stadium every time. A solid slice, on the other hand, requires a firm wrist and a strong forearm and a lot less elbow and shoulder.

I have always wondered how Rafa does not have serious wrist issues with those stiff strings and the action on his wrist when he hits those forehands.

 

[the AntiPusher]

^ I'd rather imagine how little Rafa would have won if he didn't push himself to crazy extremes to grind it out over players who are more able to finish points on their own terms. The injuries are mostly the price he pays for success. If he didn't have the physical ability to hit otherworldly topspin for hours on end, 10 months of the year he would be nothing. You can't complain about his luck when it comes to his body.

Somehow I am missing your point, it takes physical ability to hit slice or flat balls for hours, that's all the same as hitting top spin no difference.,It's Rafa mentality as a baseline grinder that has cause the wear and tear on his body.

AP, I have to disagree with your point there. There is no way the kind of forehand Rafa hits needs the same energy as a flat ball or a slice. Rafa spends way more energy hitting that forehand. He uses way more wrist, arm, elbow, racket head speed...more of everything. If he neglects power in any of those parts, his balls will be going out of the stadium every time. A solid slice, on the other hand, requires a firm wrist and a strong forearm and a lot less elbow and shoulder.

I have always wondered how Rafa does not have serious wrist issues with those stiff strings and the action on his wrist when he hits those forehands.

But that's not what Darth said, he said physical ability not torgue on the body. A course Rafa body is under more torque but that isn't physical ability

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

^ You might be right...I thought we were talking about the amount of energy required to pull of the shots he comes up with, the physicality of it, that is more taxing on his body.

 

[Front242]

He doesn't hit all his shots that hard though. A lot of soft powder puffs when he's in neutral passive rallies waiting for the inside out forehand opportunity. Guys like Gulbis, Golubev, Berdych, Kyrgios and even Nishikori hit balls harder on a shot to shot basis instead of a few big forehands here and there. It's nothing but attacking tennis from all of those guys pretty much the whole time in matches. And that's only a tiny list.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

He doesn't hit all his shots that hard though. A lot of soft powder puffs when he's in neutral passive rallies waiting for the inside out forehand opportunity. Guys like Gulbis, Golubev, Berdych, Kyrgios and even Nishikori hit balls harder on a shot to shot basis instead of a few big forehands here and there. It's nothing but attacking tennis from all of those guys pretty much the whole time in matches. And that's only a tiny list.

Front, I am talking about energy spent, not the hardness of the shot. The way Nadal hits his forehand, the way his grip is, he has to have a certain racket head speed even for the puffs that he hits. If he doesn't have that certain motion, all his balls are out. Let me put it this way: Berdych probably spends half the energy that Nadal spends on a forehand that will get to the same speed. OK, maybe not half, but you get my point.

 

[rafanoy1992]

He doesn't hit all his shots that hard though. A lot of soft powder puffs when he's in neutral passive rallies waiting for the inside out forehand opportunity. Guys like Gulbis, Golubev, Berdych, Kyrgios and even Nishikori hit balls harder on a shot to shot basis instead of a few big forehands here and there. It's nothing but attacking tennis from all of those guys pretty much the whole time in matches. And that's only a tiny list.

Front, I am talking about energy spent, not the hardness of the shot. The way Nadal hits his forehand, the way his grip is, he has to have a certain racket head speed even for the puffs that he hits. If he doesn't have that certain motion, all his balls are out. Let me put it this way: Berdych probably spends half the energy that Nadal spends on a forehand that will get to the same speed. OK, maybe not half, but you get my point.

I understand on what you are trying to say Murat.

That's why I believed that Nadal should've use his backhand more as an offensive weapon especially on hardcourts because he spends way too much energy on hitting a forehand. In my opinion, if he would have used his flat backhand more, he could have save more energy thus preventing those nagging injuries.

 

[Carol]

Reading some comments about why Rafa gets injuries (his knee has been the main one) then I'd like if someone could explain to me why Kei, Kyrgios (more and more problems with his back) Tsonga, Delpotro, Monfils, Simon, Haas, etc etc etc have had so many injuries and how they could prevent it....

 

[Federberg]

^poor genetics and technique. They don't all have to be for the same reason. I think only the most blinkered fans would suggest Rafa's style has nothing to do with his problems. That doesn't exclude bad luck by the way..

 

[Carol]

I disagree 100%. Nadal main injury always has been his knee after he broke his foot. The wrist was due to a bad movement when he was practicing which could happen to anyone same like when the other day fell down and hurt a little bit his ankle which many players have been there
Appendicitis? upper leg muscle strain? stomach strain after has been long time off? back discomfort? anyone.
Every single player has the risk to get injuries (they can't do something good without any effort and without a lot of training) but the factor "good luck" is very important. Sometimes just having a stupid car accident people die and sometimes you can see the car completely destroyed and the driver come
out unharmed

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Reading some comments about why Rafa gets injuries (his knee has been the main one) then I'd like if someone could explain to me why Kei, Kyrgios (more and more problems with his back) Tsonga, Delpotro, Monfils, Simon, Haas, etc etc etc have had so many injuries and how they could prevent it....

Tennis is a sport that is extremely hard on the body, even at the club level, let alone the pros. Don't even think for a second what Nole is doing on the tennis court is something any normal person should do to his body. The side to side movements, the sudden stop and goes, the one sidedness of the whole thing ...There is a reason most players will just quit in their early 30s. Pretty much every tennis player is a hip replacement waiting to happen.:nono

 

[Carol]

Reading some comments about why Rafa gets injuries (his knee has been the main one) then I'd like if someone could explain to me why Kei, Kyrgios (more and more problems with his back) Tsonga, Delpotro, Monfils, Simon, Haas, etc etc etc have had so many injuries and how they could prevent it....

Tennis is a sport that is extremely hard on the body, even at the club level, let alone the pros. Don't even think for a second what Nole is doing on the tennis court is something any normal person should do to his body. The side to side movements, the sudden stop and goes, the one sidedness of the whole thing ...There is a reason most players will just quit in their early 30s. Pretty much every tennis player is a hip replacement waiting to happen.:nono

I'm surprised too why Novak doesn't get more injuries and I'm glad for him. Maybe the yoga is helping him more than anything else but like he has said in his last interview he is training very hard to do better and better and it's clear that effort is working well, he is reciving back the awards to work hard and not just "having fun".

 

[nehmeth]

Reading some comments about why Rafa gets injuries (his knee has been the main one) then I'd like if someone could explain to me why Kei, Kyrgios (more and more problems with his back) Tsonga, Delpotro, Monfils, Simon, Haas, etc etc etc have had so many injuries and how they could prevent it....

Tennis is a sport that is extremely hard on the body, even at the club level, let alone the pros. Don't even think for a second what Nole is doing on the tennis court is something any normal person should do to his body. The side to side movements, the sudden stop and goes, the one sidedness of the whole thing ...There is a reason most players will just quit in their early 30s. Pretty much every tennis player is a hip replacement waiting to happen.:nono

I'm surprised too why Novak doesn't get more injuries and I'm glad for him. Maybe the yoga is helping him more than anything else but like he has said in his last interview he is training very hard to do better and better and it's clear that effort is working well, he is reciving back the awards to work hard and not just "having fun".

His first mentor Jelena Gencic worked very hard to prepare Nole for longevity as a tennis player. Here's a good link that covers how she approached training with the young Serb.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon/10164654/Wimbledon-2013-Being-as-bendy-as-Uri-Gellers-spoons-has-helped-Novak-Djokovic-reach-the-top-of-the-world.html

 

[Federberg]

^Sinners! Talking about Novak in the Fedal thread! :nono :lolz:

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

^Sinners! Talking about Novak in the Fedal thread! :nono :lolz:

Come on brother, we are talking injuries and as you know injuries=Rafa. We are good :snicker

 

[Federberg]

^Sinners! Talking about Novak in the Fedal thread! :nono :lolz:

Come on brother, we are talking injuries and as you know injuries=Rafa. We are good :snicker

Lol! I was just having some fun...

Check this out...

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Martina-Navratilova-After-Rafael-Nadal-Roger-Federer-the-GOAT-on-Clay-articolo23106.html.1

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I do believe when Roger was in his peak, nobody was even close to him as the second best player on clay (his era).

 

[Federberg]

Agreed

 

[Moxie]

I do believe when Roger was in his peak, nobody was even close to him as the second best player on clay (his era).

I'm pretty sure you don't buy yourself a steak for this one. Doesn't Roger's era start in 2004? I'm pretty sure that Coria was considered the best around then (won MC and finals Hamburg and RG,) but there was also Moyà, who won Rome (d. Nalbandian) and finished QFs at RG. And of course, Gaudio won RG. For sure, Roger was in the conversation as 2nd best, but several other clay-courters were, as well.

And Coria was still a strong contender in 2005, so, whether or not you think Roger was better, he was close.

I'd say Roger was the clear-cut #2 on clay from 2006, but surely that's not the beginning of his peak.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I do believe when Roger was in his peak, nobody was even close to him as the second best player on clay (his era).

I'm pretty sure you don't buy yourself a steak for this one. Doesn't Roger's era start in 2004? I'm pretty sure that Coria was considered the best around then (won MC and finals Hamburg and RG,) but there was also Moyà, who won Rome (d. Nalbandian) and finished QFs at RG. And of course, Gaudio won RG. For sure, Roger was in the conversation as 2nd best, but several other clay-courters were, as well.

And Coria was still a strong contender in 2005, so, whether or not you think Roger was better, he was close.

I'd say Roger was the clear-cut #2 on clay from 2006, but surely that's not the beginning of his peak.

No steak for me , but I do believe after 2004-5 Roger was the best of the rest on clay, or was starting to be. Beating Coria in Hamburg was big. Coria was on a roll then.

Maybe not as clear cut like you say, but he was on his way and after 2005 there was no doubt for me.