The two week gap (previously ) between French and Wimbledon

[rahulpawar]

The previously two week gap between French and Wimbledon was I think unfavorable for players, especially for Nadal as he would typically play the longest European clay season among all players. I think a young Nadal ( 2006-2011 ) was probably still fresh physically for Wimbledon but a slightly old and injury prone Nadal (2012-2014 ) probably was not. I don't want to justify his play in those years as clearly he was bad but I think the duration of break and how quickly Nadal's body was coping with physical pressure also had some role to play.

I also think he should have tinkered his clay season a bit as in play less but he was probably hesitating to change what has worked for him in the past. Also, probably he felt he should not compromise his chances for French Open in any way even if it means being sometimes physically a bit more fatigued for the Wimbledon.

 

[Moxie]

If there's any benefit to losing in the QF at RG, and having the extra week until Wimbledon, Nadal may find it. I agree that the younger Nadal bounced back more quickly so that he was able to complete the Channel Slam twice.

That said, everyone has more chance to get their grass legs under them. Which hopefully makes for a more interesting grass season.

 

[atttomole]

Conditions are the same for every player. If one chooses to play a long clay season, and winning titles in the process, they have to find a way to recover. There is always a trade off. The gap between RG and Wimbledon has been like that for years, so I do not see why it has to be increased for a single player to recover. However, I agree that for physiological reasons, all the players need a longer rest between RG and Wimbledon.

 

[Kirijax]

I've always thought that the two weeks between such different majors did Wimbledon an injustice. Who knows, with this extra week, we may see less upsets on the grass than before. And I'm not really sure why Nadal's troubles is so much cause for concern. The fact that he can't cope with the change should have absolutely nothing to do with how much time there is between the majors. Believe it or not, the tour does not move around to accommodate Nadal. He seems to want it to, but it won't. The umpires are a different story.

 

[Fiero425]

I've always thought that the two weeks between such different majors did Wimbledon an injustice. Who knows, with this extra week, we may see less upsets on the grass than before. And I'm not really sure why Nadal's troubles is so much cause for concern. The fact that he can't cope with the change should have absolutely nothing to do with how much time there is between the majors. Believe it or not, the tour does not move around to accommodate Nadal. He seems to want it to, but it won't. The umpires are a different story.

I feel the same way about the Masters! They shouldn't be back to back the way they do it with the doubles of IW/Miami, then Madrid/Rome, finishing up with Canada/Cinn.! Only the very top players have a chance, with few upsets enough to get a winner like Tsonga in Canada! I sorta miss those old days of Ljubičić taking an IW title or Davydenko winning in Miami event! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I've always thought that the two weeks between such different majors did Wimbledon an injustice. Who knows, with this extra week, we may see less upsets on the grass than before. And I'm not really sure why Nadal's troubles is so much cause for concern. The fact that he can't cope with the change should have absolutely nothing to do with how much time there is between the majors. Believe it or not, the tour does not move around to accommodate Nadal. He seems to want it to, but it won't. The umpires are a different story.

No, Not really.

The current clay court schedule was pretty much decided based on Rafa's wishes. Initially, they wanted to have a Masters and then Barcelona and then another Masters. Rafa vehemently complained that he would have to play three weeks in a row and got that changed. Also, Madrid and Rome got interchanged as per Rafa's request (although this one makes sense for everybody as Rome plays closer to RG).

Even though the current three weeks of grass season benefits Rafa more than anyone else (he can find his grass feet which he really needs as seen by his recent Wimby results), I don't think it was done at the request of Rafa. It was just incidental.

 

[Moxie]

I've always thought that the two weeks between such different majors did Wimbledon an injustice. Who knows, with this extra week, we may see less upsets on the grass than before. And I'm not really sure why Nadal's troubles is so much cause for concern. The fact that he can't cope with the change should have absolutely nothing to do with how much time there is between the majors. Believe it or not, the tour does not move around to accommodate Nadal. He seems to want it to, but it won't. The umpires are a different story.

No, Not really.

The current clay court schedule was pretty much decided based on Rafa's wishes. Initially, they wanted to have a Masters and then Barcelona and then another Masters. Rafa vehemently complained that he would have to play three weeks in a row and got that changed. Also, Madrid and Rome got interchanged as per Rafa's request (although this one makes sense for everybody as Rome plays closer to RG).

Even though the current three weeks of grass season benefits Rafa more than anyone else (he can find his grass feet which he really needs as seen by his recent Wimby results), I don't think it was done at the request of Rafa. It was just incidental.

The addition of a week before Wimbledon benefits Wimbledon. I thought that addressing the OPs point of how it benefits Nadal would be to face an obvious point head-on, not incite a raft of conspiracy theories. The current European clay court schedule wasn't decided based on Rafa's wishes, but on Tiriac's, if you want to put it in those terms. The big change in the European clay season was downgrading Hamburg and inserting Madrid, which actually hurt Nadal in two ways: as the then-#1 he was pressured to play Madrid in a way that he wasn't always to play Hamburg, and he had to sometimes sacrifice Barcelona, which is a "home tournament" for him, and is played on a more suited surface for RG prep. So you really just made all of that up.

Otherwise, the insertion of a week before Wimbledon might have favored Nadal a couple of years ago, but it only just helps a bit, now. In general terms, it is meant to help all the players, as the transition from clay to grass is pretty brutal, those 2 Majors are by far the closest in the calendar and, additionally, we've all been clamoring for a little more of a grass season.

 

[rahulpawar]

Conditions are the same for every player. If one chooses to play a long clay season, and winning titles in the process, they have to find a way to recover. There is always a trade off. The gap between RG and Wimbledon has been like that for years, so I do not see why it has to be increased for a single player to recover. However, I agree that for physiological reasons, all the players need a longer rest between RG and Wimbledon.

I did not say that gap should be extended just to increase the time for a player to recover. I am saying the gap may have affected all the players to some degree but it affected Nadal the most. I don't think there is anything wrong with this statement. And maybe an extended gap a few years earlier might have helped Nadal. ( This does not mean I am saying Wimbledon should change its policies according to the whims of one particular player )

 

[Kieran]

For three years in the seventies, there was only a single week gap. Now at least we have a bit of a grass season, and I agree with the OP, that in the last few years it's been harder for Rafa to make the transition, so this is a good thing, from his perspective.

Maybe it's a year or two too late, but maybe it isn't...

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I've always thought that the two weeks between such different majors did Wimbledon an injustice. Who knows, with this extra week, we may see less upsets on the grass than before. And I'm not really sure why Nadal's troubles is so much cause for concern. The fact that he can't cope with the change should have absolutely nothing to do with how much time there is between the majors. Believe it or not, the tour does not move around to accommodate Nadal. He seems to want it to, but it won't. The umpires are a different story.

No, Not really.

The current clay court schedule was pretty much decided based on Rafa's wishes. Initially, they wanted to have a Masters and then Barcelona and then another Masters. Rafa vehemently complained that he would have to play three weeks in a row and got that changed. Also, Madrid and Rome got interchanged as per Rafa's request (although this one makes sense for everybody as Rome plays closer to RG).

Even though the current three weeks of grass season benefits Rafa more than anyone else (he can find his grass feet which he really needs as seen by his recent Wimby results), I don't think it was done at the request of Rafa. It was just incidental.

The addition of a week before Wimbledon benefits Wimbledon. I thought that addressing the OPs point of how it benefits Nadal would be to face an obvious point head-on, not incite a raft of conspiracy theories. The current European clay court schedule wasn't decided based on Rafa's wishes, but on Tiriac's, if you want to put it in those terms. The big change in the European clay season was downgrading Hamburg and inserting Madrid, which actually hurt Nadal in two ways: as the then-#1 he was pressured to play Madrid in a way that he wasn't always to play Hamburg, and he had to sometimes sacrifice Barcelona, which is a "home tournament" for him, and is played on a more suited surface for RG prep. So you really just made all of that up.

Otherwise, the insertion of a week before Wimbledon might have favored Nadal a couple of years ago, but it only just helps a bit, now. In general terms, it is meant to help all the players, as the transition from clay to grass is pretty brutal, those 2 Majors are by far the closest in the calendar and, additionally, we've all been clamoring for a little more of a grass season.

Nonsense. After the switch of Madrid to clay masters, ATP actually wanted to have the three masters so that no two of them are played on consecutive weeks. In fact, they had it that way for one year and in that year Rafa skipped Barcelona & won all three Masters. That meant Rafa would have to play for three weeks in a row as he always wanted to pay in Barcelona which is important for him and so he vehemently protested and got it changed. Everybody knows that.

However, Rafa had nothing to do with this extra week even though it helps him more than any other player.

 

[Moxie]

No, Not really.

The current clay court schedule was pretty much decided based on Rafa's wishes. Initially, they wanted to have a Masters and then Barcelona and then another Masters. Rafa vehemently complained that he would have to play three weeks in a row and got that changed. Also, Madrid and Rome got interchanged as per Rafa's request (although this one makes sense for everybody as Rome plays closer to RG).

Even though the current three weeks of grass season benefits Rafa more than anyone else (he can find his grass feet which he really needs as seen by his recent Wimby results), I don't think it was done at the request of Rafa. It was just incidental.

The addition of a week before Wimbledon benefits Wimbledon. I thought that addressing the OPs point of how it benefits Nadal would be to face an obvious point head-on, not incite a raft of conspiracy theories. The current European clay court schedule wasn't decided based on Rafa's wishes, but on Tiriac's, if you want to put it in those terms. The big change in the European clay season was downgrading Hamburg and inserting Madrid, which actually hurt Nadal in two ways: as the then-#1 he was pressured to play Madrid in a way that he wasn't always to play Hamburg, and he had to sometimes sacrifice Barcelona, which is a "home tournament" for him, and is played on a more suited surface for RG prep. So you really just made all of that up.

Otherwise, the insertion of a week before Wimbledon might have favored Nadal a couple of years ago, but it only just helps a bit, now. In general terms, it is meant to help all the players, as the transition from clay to grass is pretty brutal, those 2 Majors are by far the closest in the calendar and, additionally, we've all been clamoring for a little more of a grass season.

Nonsense. After the switch of Madrid to clay masters, ATP actually wanted to have the three masters so that no two of them are played on consecutive weeks. In fact, they had it that way for one year and in that year Rafa skipped Barcelona & won all three Masters. That meant Rafa would have to play for three weeks in a row as he always wanted to pay in Barcelona which is important for him and so he vehemently protested and got it changed. Everybody knows that.

However, Rafa had nothing to do with this extra week even though it helps him more than any other player.

I have no recollection of that, and nothing comes up in a google search, but perhaps you can provide something on Nadal getting the calendar changed. Much appreciated.

 

[memad]

not only rafa but I think it would help all atp n wta players

 

[GameSetAndMath]

not only rafa but I think it would help all atp n wta players

Nobody said it does not help others. It was said that it helps Rafa more, as he really needs it.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I've always thought that the two weeks between such different majors did Wimbledon an injustice. Who knows, with this extra week, we may see less upsets on the grass than before. And I'm not really sure why Nadal's troubles is so much cause for concern. The fact that he can't cope with the change should have absolutely nothing to do with how much time there is between the majors. Believe it or not, the tour does not move around to accommodate Nadal. He seems to want it to, but it won't. The umpires are a different story.

No, Not really.

The current clay court schedule was pretty much decided based on Rafa's wishes. Initially, they wanted to have a Masters and then Barcelona and then another Masters. Rafa vehemently complained that he would have to play three weeks in a row and got that changed. Also, Madrid and Rome got interchanged as per Rafa's request (although this one makes sense for everybody as Rome plays closer to RG).

Even though the current three weeks of grass season benefits Rafa more than anyone else (he can find his grass feet which he really needs as seen by his recent Wimby results), I don't think it was done at the request of Rafa. It was just incidental.

Words have lost meaning around here. People can pretty much throw "facts" while talking out of their ass. Any basis to anything you're saying? And no, Nadal complaining is hardly proof.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I have no recollection of that, and nothing comes up in a google search, but perhaps you can provide something on Nadal getting the calendar changed. Much appreciated.

If you don't have a recollection of it, you should say so and not accuse me of making it up.
In 2010, the three clay masters tourneys were played on alternate weeks. Rafa did not like that as that would mean that he has to play for three consecutive weeks as he wants to play in Barcelona. In fact he withdrew from Barcelona that year. Here is his announcement when he did so.

“I am really sorry not to be able to play in Barcelona, more than any other tournament, but this year after the win in Monte Carlo my body is asking me to rest,” Nadal said in a statement to the tournament from his PR rep. “I repeat that I’m especially sorry not to play there, because I would like it to be understood that it really is that way, because it is played in my club and it is my home tournament. I have said on many occasions that the tennis calendar, specifically the clay court season, is badly structured and my not being able to compete in Barcelona is a consequence of that. I want to extend my thanks in advance to the members of the club, the organizers of the tournament, and all of the fans for their understanding. Tomorrow I will be in Barcelona and will be available for the organizers.”

BTW, this is just one example. He complained multiple times vociferously leading to change of
schedule from the following year.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I've always thought that the two weeks between such different majors did Wimbledon an injustice. Who knows, with this extra week, we may see less upsets on the grass than before. And I'm not really sure why Nadal's troubles is so much cause for concern. The fact that he can't cope with the change should have absolutely nothing to do with how much time there is between the majors. Believe it or not, the tour does not move around to accommodate Nadal. He seems to want it to, but it won't. The umpires are a different story.

No, Not really.

The current clay court schedule was pretty much decided based on Rafa's wishes. Initially, they wanted to have a Masters and then Barcelona and then another Masters. Rafa vehemently complained that he would have to play three weeks in a row and got that changed. Also, Madrid and Rome got interchanged as per Rafa's request (although this one makes sense for everybody as Rome plays closer to RG).

Even though the current three weeks of grass season benefits Rafa more than anyone else (he can find his grass feet which he really needs as seen by his recent Wimby results), I don't think it was done at the request of Rafa. It was just incidental.

Words have lost meaning around here. People can pretty much throw "facts" while talking out of their ass. Any basis to anything you're saying? And no, Nadal complaining is hardly proof.

Get real, So do you want ATP to announce the modified schedule stating explicitly that "Here is the modified schedule. We caved in as Rafa complained". :laydownlaughinguzzled

 

[brokenshoelace]

No, Not really.

The current clay court schedule was pretty much decided based on Rafa's wishes. Initially, they wanted to have a Masters and then Barcelona and then another Masters. Rafa vehemently complained that he would have to play three weeks in a row and got that changed. Also, Madrid and Rome got interchanged as per Rafa's request (although this one makes sense for everybody as Rome plays closer to RG).

Even though the current three weeks of grass season benefits Rafa more than anyone else (he can find his grass feet which he really needs as seen by his recent Wimby results), I don't think it was done at the request of Rafa. It was just incidental.

Words have lost meaning around here. People can pretty much throw "facts" while talking out of their ass. Any basis to anything you're saying? And no, Nadal complaining is hardly proof.

Get real, So do you want ATP to announce the modified schedule stating explicitly that "Here is the modified schedule. We caved in as Rafa complained". :laydownlaughinguzzled

There's nothing to get real about. Players unanimously complained about the difference in the surface between Madrid and Paris so the tournaments were reversed to move Rome closer to Paris as the surfaces play the same.

But no yeah, Nadal really needed the ATP's help during the clay court season throughout all these years. The struggle is real...

 

[DarthFed]

It ain't about grass feet or an extra week for Rafa. With his game he will always be vulnerable even to scrubs the first week of Wimbledon. That topspin doesn't kick up as high and it's harder to play great defense and simply outlast the nobodies of the tour. The difference between him narrowly escaping the weaklings in his prime vs. the ugly losses the last 3 years is due to the loss of a step.

The fatigue/lack of grass court practice excuse is just all too convenient.

 

[Moxie]

I have no recollection of that, and nothing comes up in a google search, but perhaps you can provide something on Nadal getting the calendar changed. Much appreciated.

If you don't have a recollection of it, you should say so and not accuse me of making it up.
In 2010, the three clay masters tourneys were played on alternate weeks. Rafa did not like that as that would mean that he has to play for three consecutive weeks as he wants to play in Barcelona. In fact he withdrew from Barcelona that year. Here is his announcement when he did so.

“I am really sorry not to be able to play in Barcelona, more than any other tournament, but this year after the win in Monte Carlo my body is asking me to rest,” Nadal said in a statement to the tournament from his PR rep. “I repeat that I’m especially sorry not to play there, because I would like it to be understood that it really is that way, because it is played in my club and it is my home tournament. I have said on many occasions that the tennis calendar, specifically the clay court season, is badly structured and my not being able to compete in Barcelona is a consequence of that. I want to extend my thanks in advance to the members of the club, the organizers of the tournament, and all of the fans for their understanding. Tomorrow I will be in Barcelona and will be available for the organizers.”

BTW, this is just one example. He complained multiple times vociferously leading to change of
schedule from the following year.

I have no idea what you think that proves as to your notion that Rafa single-handedly muscled the ATP into changing the calendar.

Words have lost meaning around here. People can pretty much throw "facts" while talking out of their ass. Any basis to anything you're saying? And no, Nadal complaining is hardly proof.

Get real, So do you want ATP to announce the modified schedule stating explicitly that "Here is the modified schedule. We caved in as Rafa complained". :laydownlaughinguzzled

There's nothing to get real about. Players unanimously complained about the difference in the surface between Madrid and Paris so the tournaments were reversed to move Rome closer to Paris as the surfaces play the same.

But no yeah, Nadal really needed the ATP's help during the clay court season throughout all these years. The struggle is real...

If GSM is talking about the issues surrounding the general displeasure with the Madrid Open, and the blue clay was part of it, here is an article that supports your point that Nadal was not the only one to give voice to it: Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic Madrid Open snub. This was from the BBC, and in the body of the article, Federer is also quoted as having been against the surface. Also of note: the article is from May 2012, when the World #1 was Djokovic, who presumably had a great deal of sway.

@GSM: You seem to have extravagantly spun a story to suit your narrative that the ATP changed their scheduling to make it more favorable to Nadal, and this because he forced them in some back-room negotiation. Now I will say it again...you made that up. It's disingenuous to make a statement largely based on your own interpolations, and then just hope no one holds your feet to the fire on it, and that the mud sticks.

 

[Tennisman12345]

It ain't about grass feet or an extra week for Rafa. With his game he will always be vulnerable even to scrubs the first week of Wimbledon. That topspin doesn't kick up as high and it's harder to play great defense and simply outlast the nobodies of the tour. The difference between him narrowly escaping the weaklings in his prime vs. the ugly losses the last 3 years is due to the loss of a step.

The fatigue/lack of grass court practice excuse is just all too convenient.

Rafa only lost one set on the way to the 08 final and that was against Gulbis and that was only because of a dodgy umpire call helping Gulbis break Rafa to win the set 7-5 . As for 2010 the 2nd and 3rd round 5 sets were hardly narrow escapes Rafa won the last 2 sets in both matches fairly easily 60 63 against Hasse and 62 63 v Petzschner neither were anywhere near close to winning sets 4 or 5