The demeaning and inaccurate myth of what Djokovic was in 2011....

[calitennis127]

To be honest Darth, expectations have got ridiculous if any year a player wins a major is regarded as subpar.

Agreed.

I know where Darth is coming from, but it's the way that he expresses these sentiments. It'd be one thing if Novak Djokovic or Roger Federer were to privately say "my year has stunk, I can't believe I lost to X in the semis of the French or Wimbledon", but in terms of objective outside evaluation, saying that someone has had a bad year when they have won the Australian Open, won Monte Carlo, been part of a classic 5-set match in the French Open semis, and then made the Wimbledon final after winning a semifinal classic match - that simply doesn't make much sense.

 

[calitennis127]

^^ Again, it wouldn't be Cali if he didn't think every single thought that occurs to him is over-the-top thread-worthy.

Actually, if you didn't suffer from your apparent incipient amnesia, you would recall that Kieran has been saying the type of thing I am addressing with this thread regularly for the past year and a half. I have addressed it on many threads not begun by me before, but with his latest comments after the Montreal semifinals, I felt it was finally time to address it with an overt thread.

Awesome. I hope you're equally as patient before you open your next thread.

Would you like me to PM you for permission beforehand?

Absolutely not. It's hard enough reading your posts.

As the saying goes - the truth hurts.

 

[calitennis127]

Oh, look, another original post by Cali. Instead of actually telling us the difference between 2011 Djokovic and 2013 Djokovic (aside from referencing defense), he resorts to something as vague as "exposed Nadal's limitations." Well okay, but you do know he played other players than Nadal in 2011, and you do know he's playing other players now?

Are you talking mostly about Murray, or everyone? Because Murray has been the main problem.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Oh, look, another original post by Cali. Instead of actually telling us the difference between 2011 Djokovic and 2013 Djokovic (aside from referencing defense), he resorts to something as vague as "exposed Nadal's limitations." Well okay, but you do know he played other players than Nadal in 2011, and you do know he's playing other players now?

Are you talking mostly about Murray, or everyone? Because Murray has been the main problem.

I'm talking about Djokovic's game, and how it is different from 2011. Because that would be an insightful conversation. There are some things he was able to do in 2011 that are a bit more specific than "exposing Nadal's weaknesses" that are often missing these days. Let's hope the thread goes in that direction, and something good comes out of this.

 

[Moxie]

^^ Again, it wouldn't be Cali if he didn't think every single thought that occurs to him is over-the-top thread-worthy.

Actually, if you didn't suffer from your apparent incipient amnesia, you would recall that Kieran has been saying the type of thing I am addressing with this thread regularly for the past year and a half. I have addressed it on many threads not begun by me before, but with his latest comments after the Montreal semifinals, I felt it was finally time to address it with an overt thread.

There is nothing wrong with what Kieran said, as is demonstrated by this thread which you put up. It's not an insult, it's a debatable point. I don't even see Djokovic fans trying to pretend that the 2011 level is anything more than a neighborhood he visits, but doesn't actually live in. And I think we all agree on that. El Dude even has a graph for it which illustrates the spike.

Djokovic will not, for the forseeable future, sink back to pre-2011 levels in his game. The question is his head, which is a reasonable question, at this point. However, he is still #1, and has a Slam title, for heaven's sake, so there's no reason to start wailing over how he's having a terrible year.

 

[DarthFed]

To be honest Darth, expectations have got ridiculous if any year a player wins a major is regarded as subpar.

Top players are greedy. I don't think Nole would be happy with his year so far, especially the recent tournaments.

I actually agree with this, but I don't think we can judge a player's year based on what we believe are his thoughts about it.

Most everything on here is opinion. IMO he has had a disappointing year so far and I'd imagine Nole and most of his fans would agree. These are his salad days and he just got blown out in Wimbledon, lost RG after being up a break in the 5th, and he is in serious danger of losing #1 to Rafa by year end.

Talking about Djokovic right now is a decent topic but this thread is all over the place and it started with Cali trying to call out Kieran (his favorite hobby I guess). Nole isn't at 2009-2010 level but he is a lot closer to that than 2011 IMO and it is alarming for him with Murray rising and Nadal back in the mix.

I will throw this out there.. I think Nole might get upset early at the USO and that will indicate that he is in a bit of a tailspin. Disappointments boil over and confidence often disperses after awhile.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

To be honest Darth, expectations have got ridiculous if any year a player wins a major is regarded as subpar.

Top players are greedy. I don't think Nole would be happy with his year so far, especially the recent tournaments.

I actually agree with this, but I don't think we can judge a player's year based on what we believe are his thoughts about it.

Most everything on here is opinion. IMO he has had a disappointing year so far and I'd imagine Nole and most of his fans would agree. These are his salad days and he just got blown out in Wimbledon, lost RG after being up a break in the 5th, and he is in serious danger of losing #1 to Rafa by year end.

Talking about Djokovic right now is a decent topic but this thread is all over the place and it started with Cali trying to call out Kieran (his favorite hobby I guess). Nole isn't at 2009-2010 level but he is a lot closer to that than 2011 IMO and it is alarming for him with Murray rising and Nadal back in the mix.

I will throw this out there.. I think Nole might get upset early at the USO and that will indicate that he is in a bit of a tailspin. Disappointments boil over and confidence often disperses after awhile.

i'm a djokovic fan and I don't agree..

a major, a masters, a major semi, a major final..and by a mile the world no1 rank player..soon to be no 1 rank for 100wks total.

ooh that's a diabolical year that is.

 

[Moxie]

To be honest Darth, expectations have got ridiculous if any year a player wins a major is regarded as subpar.

Top players are greedy. I don't think Nole would be happy with his year so far, especially the recent tournaments.

I actually agree with this, but I don't think we can judge a player's year based on what we believe are his thoughts about it.

Most everything on here is opinion. IMO he has had a disappointing year so far and I'd imagine Nole and most of his fans would agree. These are his salad days and he just got blown out in Wimbledon, lost RG after being up a break in the 5th, and he is in serious danger of losing #1 to Rafa by year end.

Talking about Djokovic right now is a decent topic but this thread is all over the place and it started with Cali trying to call out Kieran (his favorite hobby I guess). Nole isn't at 2009-2010 level but he is a lot closer to that than 2011 IMO and it is alarming for him with Murray rising and Nadal back in the mix.

I will throw this out there.. I think Nole might get upset early at the USO and that will indicate that he is in a bit of a tailspin. Disappointments boil over and confidence often disperses after awhile.

I get your point about it being a disappointing year, Darth, given that these are Novak's "salad days." If he, and his fans, hope to get into the legacy conversation with Roger and Rafa, and I believe they've expressed it, and Djokovic has implied it, he can't afford to miss out on Slam opportunities. Or otherwise to falter in the bigger moments. He's absolutely in the all-time conversation, though.

 

[Luxilon Borg]

On another thread in the past week, one frequent poster wrote the following and was not called on it:

"In 2011 there was basically only one Nole against Rafa. It was the bug-eyed, shirt-ripping, egg-fueled maniac who swung for the fences and painted the lines."

It is amazing that hardly anyone challenged this absurd statement. If anyone knows that it is false, it would be Rafael Nadal himself. The notion that Djokovic was simply going for broke and basically getting lucky is absolutely and utterly untrue. For one thing, Djokovic was playing excellent defense - as both imjimmy and Broken often commented in 2011- but besides that, Djokovic was hitting winners that he had always hit with both his forehand and backhand.

I think Mr. Kieran's above remark emanates almost solely from the US Open match points against Federer. On that occasion, yes, Djokovic swung for the fences on match point - and he executed. But Kieran always compliments Nadal for "rising to the occasion", so why not give Djokovic some credit for what he did on those two MPs against Federer as well, instead of just attributing it to a once-in-a-lifetime rush of adrenaline and testerone?

When Nadal saves match points, he is mentally tough. When Djokovic does it, he is a "bug-eyed maniac who swung for the fences". I remember Nadal in the Indian Wells match against Nalbandian going for a down-the-line forehand winner on one match point that he hadn't hit all match; THAT shot clipped the line, whereas Djokovic's winners against Federer were inside the line. So who was the line-clipping swing-for-the-fences player?

More broadly, however, what Djokovic did in 2011 was expose the inherent limitations in Nadal's game in terms of shotmaking and offensive ability. The US Open final was almost pathetic on Nadal's part, as he was hitting the ball as ferociously and tenaciously as he could, but only produced 4 winners in 2.5 hours with that utterly amazing forehand. Djokovic also did not beat himself in 2011 the way he did in the Montreal semifinal last week, when he gave Nadal a bunch of cheap double faults (which Nadal never hits himself) and was often sloppy in rallies. At any rate, in 2011 Djokovic exposed Nadal's limitations, not with low-percentage "painting lines" luck, but with entirely reasonable (albeit high-level) tennis execution.

That was what Djokovic did in 2011.

There is a hint of truth to the statement...but...fortune favors the brave. He won 4 or 5 HUGE matches down match points...

Of course The Joker's game was utterly complete and his athleticism was from another planet...

The only way 2011 was possible is what EVERY elite tennis player has, and that is total and utter BELIEF.

 

[nehmeth]

..fortune favors the brave. He won 4 or 5 HUGE matches down match points...

Of course The Joker's game was utterly complete and his athleticism was from another planet...

The only way 2011 was possible is what EVERY elite tennis player has, and that is total and utter BELIEF.

This.

 

[tented]

To be honest Darth, expectations have got ridiculous if any year a player wins a major is regarded as subpar.

This reminds me of Serena's comment after Wimbledon, which serves as a perfect example of the glass is half-full, half-empty way of approaching expectations:

Serena Williams‘ take on her 2013 season, which has included seven titles (one being the French Open), a 51-3 record, a career-best 34-match winning streak and a fourth-round loss at Wimbledon: “decent.”

“Honestly, I would have preferred to do better in some tournaments,” Williams said in a conference call on Monday leading up to next week’s Rogers Cup in Toronto. “I need to do well in a tournament like Toronto to get ready for the last Grand Slam of the year and do really well there too.”