Tennis players balance body image

[sk310]

Always hard to take comments on the internet very seriously though. A minority of them probably really means it. But others are just jealous, or they enjoy some celebrity bashing or getting under other people's skins. And you probably have some frustrated fans of other players there as well.

David Frum, a former Bush advisor posted on his twitter account the reasons why he felt Serena takes PEDs (pic.twitter.com/W3PqajqGrU). Frum is currently the Senior Editor of the Atlantic. I am sure he is not jealous of Serena Williams, however what he claims is dangerous and can be taken seriously by new fans to tennis or those on the fence about the sport. While he deleted his tweets, he then went on a talk show (Roland Martin's TV One on Monday) where instead of clarifying his tweets, he stood by his misinformed statements. Of course he mentions the panic room incident of being evidence to cheating by Serena and that during 2010-2011 she was not tested out of competition (she was tested 8 times during tournaments). Of course he fails to mention that very few players were tested out of competition during this time frame. What he has stated is nothing new; I have read the same misinformation several times on this and other boards. Yes, it is easy to take the internet "seriously" when misinformation is repeated over and over again until it somehow becomes "truth or fact".

I suppose that until proven otherwise we can put that one into the "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" category then.

I follow American politics very closely. I am very familiar with David Frum. He's actually Canadian. The surprising thing is for a Republican he's not considered very conservative or radical. He's very moderate. Around 2008-10 he was shunned by a lot of the Republican party for claiming the party had become too conservative. It sounds like he's a backseat driver casual tennis watcher who tunes in for a few matches a year and then makes wild assumptions about players.

 

[sk310]

Always hard to take comments on the internet very seriously though. A minority of them probably really means it. But others are just jealous, or they enjoy some celebrity bashing or getting under other people's skins. And you probably have some frustrated fans of other players there as well.

t

I agree but Slate.com commenters are fairly educated people who engage in pretty measured debate. I think it's difficult as someone who follows the WTA really closely to stomach that kind of claim.

I think of course there is probably PED abuse on both tours. Although I think a lot of people know that the difference between the top 10 and top 20, top 50, top 100, and top 500 is VERY large. Tennis is such a game of finesse, skill, and technique. My point is that sports like Baseball where if you know how to strike a ball but would be helped along by more strength then yes there's obvious huge advantages (Barry Bonds). In football you have to be massive and athletic and if you know the basics of the game there isn't exactly the level of technique needed. Tennis is the kind of game where I just really can't see that taking PED's when you're ranked 250 would really help you even get into the top 50.

This is a common argument that has been debated many times. Yes, a player ranked 250 cannot beat a player ranked in top 50, just by using PEDs. That does not mean, PEDs are not useful in tennis. PEDs are still useful in tennis to get competitive advantage among equals. That 250 ranked player will get an advantage over 240 ranked player if using PEDs. Also, a #2 ranked player using PEDS can get advantage over #1 ranked player not using PEDs. This is even more true in Men's tennis where matches of these days often end up as a 6 hour 5 set war of attrition with baseline rallies of 64 shots. If PEDs can give you stamina to keep going like energizer bunny, that surely can make a difference between winning and losing.

Yeah I'm not going to get into that debate. I think we just disagree and that's fine. I understand part of what you're saying and sure it could give you an edge I just don't think PEDs what turned a black girl from Compton with 0 connection to tennis into Serena Williams and even entertaining the conversation in a realm of possibility is damaging to the entire sport.

 

[special700]

I read that, too.

"Even the New York Times is body-shaming Serena Williams now: It’s time to break this absurd and insulting habit once and for all"

Where's the article? I don't see it when I clicked on the link.

That's weird. The link stopped working. Try this:

http://www.salon.com/writer/mary_elizabeth_williams/

That brings up a list of the author's articles, and the Serena one is at the top.

I read that article when it first came out I thought you guys were referring to a different article.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

t

I agree but Slate.com commenters are fairly educated people who engage in pretty measured debate. I think it's difficult as someone who follows the WTA really closely to stomach that kind of claim.

I think of course there is probably PED abuse on both tours. Although I think a lot of people know that the difference between the top 10 and top 20, top 50, top 100, and top 500 is VERY large. Tennis is such a game of finesse, skill, and technique. My point is that sports like Baseball where if you know how to strike a ball but would be helped along by more strength then yes there's obvious huge advantages (Barry Bonds). In football you have to be massive and athletic and if you know the basics of the game there isn't exactly the level of technique needed. Tennis is the kind of game where I just really can't see that taking PED's when you're ranked 250 would really help you even get into the top 50.
noti

This is a common argument that has been debated many times. Yes, a player ranked 250 cannot beat a player ranked in top 50, just by using PEDs. That does not mean, PEDs are not useful in tennis. PEDs are still useful in tennis to get competitive advantage among equals. That 250 ranked player will get an advantage over 240 ranked player if using PEDs. Also, a #2 ranked player using PEDS can get advantage over #1 ranked player not using PEDs. This is even more true in Men's tennis where matches of these days often end up as a 6 hour 5 set war of attrition with baseline rallies of 64 shots. If PEDs can give you stamina to keep going like energizer bunny, that surely can make a difference between winning and losing.

Yeah I'm not going to get into that debate. I think we just disagree and that's fine. I understand part of what you're saying and sure it could give you an edge I just don't think PEDs what turned a black girl from Compton with 0 connection to tennis into Serena Williams and even entertaining the conversation in a realm of possibility is damaging to the entire sport.

You are missing my point. I am not saying anything about Serena or anyone else here. There is a general feeling that because Tennis requires a lot of technique PEDs are not of use in tennis. That is just not true. Sure, they have not developed a PED that can make someone a good volleyer. Also, I agree that PEDs cannot give advantage for a player ranked 250 when playing against a top player.
But, PEDs do give advantage among competitive equals. i.e,, if you take two players of similar ability and skill, the player who takes PEDs will surely have advantage.

 

[special700]

^It really wouldn't shock me if that David Frum guy turned out to be a racist. Why he feels the need to specifically focus on an African American woman who has been tremendously successful escapes me :nono

Ofcourse he is he's a right wing hack and he hates Obama.And he's also Canadian, not that being Canadian means anything, but I thought I would just put that out there.

 

[Kirijax]

It seems that every sport dinks around with their head i the clouds until a huge scandal breaks out and they are forced to come up with a better testing system in order to save their sport (baseball, cycling, etc...). I hope and pray to God that this never happens in tennis but I'm afraid it will someday. Some guy will do everything necessary to win, grab a grand slam and after being hailed as the new hero of tennis, be caught with his pants down and the sport is thrown into a fight for its reputation and existence. Maybe ATP/WTA/ITF and all the other alphabet groups will have enough foresight and gumption to see this off before it happens.

 

[tossip]

I want Serena to play pova or vika in the USA Open final...one of them will get to 20 floggings this season...its a footrace for these two to hit 20 beatings.
want a rematch between pova and Coco
rematch between vika and Serena
Muguruza to play Madison
Sloane playing Coco Muguruza or Madison
its going to be popping this summer!

 

[sk310]

This is a common argument that has been debated many times. Yes, a player ranked 250 cannot beat a player ranked in top 50, just by using PEDs. That does not mean, PEDs are not useful in tennis. PEDs are still useful in tennis to get competitive advantage among equals. That 250 ranked player will get an advantage over 240 ranked player if using PEDs. Also, a #2 ranked player using PEDS can get advantage over #1 ranked player not using PEDs. This is even more true in Men's tennis where matches of these days often end up as a 6 hour 5 set war of attrition with baseline rallies of 64 shots. If PEDs can give you stamina to keep going like energizer bunny, that surely can make a difference between winning and losing.

Yeah I'm not going to get into that debate. I think we just disagree and that's fine. I understand part of what you're saying and sure it could give you an edge I just don't think PEDs what turned a black girl from Compton with 0 connection to tennis into Serena Williams and even entertaining the conversation in a realm of possibility is damaging to the entire sport.

You are missing my point. I am not saying anything about Serena or anyone else here. There is a general feeling that because Tennis requires a lot of technique PEDs are not of use in tennis. That is just not true. Sure, they have not developed a PED that can make someone a good volleyer. Also, I agree that PEDs cannot give advantage for a player ranked 250 when playing against a top player.
But, PEDs do give advantage among competitive equals. i.e,, if you take two players of similar ability and skill, the player who takes PEDs will surely have advantage.

Right I got your point, I take it, but I still disagree that it can really make that much difference in a game like tennis. Tennis is way too much a game of finesse and technique. Sure if you have to players not only ranked very similarly but of also similar technique level then yes PEDs probably help. I am of the opinion that PEDs help in a sport where the biggest difference between two people is who can ultimately push harder, hit harder, or go longer. I don't see tennis that way. Just a difference of opinions.

 

[tossip]

I fear for Townsend if she becomes a very good player and has to be body shamed by the media and trolls...

 

[special700]

I am still puzzle on how peds can help a player with technique. I wonder when Steffie won her 21 majors if folks accused her of using peds too, or is the accusations only to be fling at black women. I cannot believe what you folks are insinuating in this thread. A black person just cannot work hard and achieve success without being on something.

 

[special700]

I want Serena to play pova or vika in the USA Open final...one of them will get to 20 floggings this season...its a footrace for these two to hit 20 beatings.
want a rematch between pova and Coco
rematch between vika and Serena
Muguruza to play Madison
Sloane playing Coco Muguruza or Madison
its going to be popping this summer!

Serena will have another brutal draw just like they try to prevent her from winning another Serena Slam at Wimbeldon they will try to prevent her from reaching 22 like Graf. Like all the "commentators" said they could not believe the draw that serena had. Evert even said they try to prevent her from getting another Serena Slam.

 

[tossip]

the only one who can trouble Serena on hardcourts is Vika or Kerber otherwise she is the Queen of the hardcourts.Serena should increase her security detail...with all the crazies out there..
I have a feeling that she will win the Open and have that grand slam.....her star will rise even higher than what it is now...like a rock star.

 

[jhar26]

I am still puzzle on how peds can help a player with technique. I wonder when Steffie won her 21 majors if folks accused her of using peds too, or is the accusations only to be fling at black women. I cannot believe what you folks are insinuating in this thread. A black person just cannot work hard and achieve success without being on something.

I don't think that people are insinuating that Serena is on PED. All they are saying is that it's very likely that there's PED use in tennis. Tennis is not only about technique. Perhaps it was, or was mostly anyway, in the age of the wooden/standard sized frame racquets. But these days it's also about physical strenght, endurance, explosiviness, etc. Besides, there's even PED use in darts and snooker - mostly to calm the nerves and have a steady arm. Why wouldn't there be PED in tennis?

 

[jhar26]

the only one who can trouble Serena on hardcourts is Vika or Kerber otherwise she is the Queen of the hardcourts.Serena should increase her security detail...with all the crazies out there..
I have a feeling that she will win the Open and have that grand slam.....her star will rise even higher than what it is now...like a rock star.

Don't underestimate the pressure that comes with the possibility of completing a calender year grand slam though. As great as she is, even Serena Williams is only human and she will feel pressure like never before. She CAN do it, but take nothing for granted. If someone can keep it close that arm will start to shake and her feet will feel as though they weigh twenty pounds each. Knowing Serena she will snap out of it and find a way to win anyway, but she'll have her moments.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Yeah I'm not going to get into that debate. I think we just disagree and that's fine. I understand part of what you're saying and sure it could give you an edge I just don't think PEDs what turned a black girl from Compton with 0 connection to tennis into Serena Williams and even entertaining the conversation in a realm of possibility is damaging to the entire sport.

You are missing my point. I am not saying anything about Serena or anyone else here. There is a general feeling that because Tennis requires a lot of technique PEDs are not of use in tennis. That is just not true. Sure, they have not developed a PED that can make someone a good volleyer. Also, I agree that PEDs cannot give advantage for a player ranked 250 when playing against a top player.
But, PEDs do give advantage among competitive equals. i.e,, if you take two players of similar ability and skill, the player who takes PEDs will surely have advantage.

Right I got your point, I take it, but I still disagree that it can really make that much difference in a game like tennis. Tennis is way too much a game of finesse and technique. Sure if you have to players not only ranked very similarly but of also similar technique level then yes PEDs probably help. I am of the opinion that PEDs help in a sport where the biggest difference between two people is who can ultimately push harder, hit harder, or go longer. I don't see tennis that way. Just a difference of opinions.

That is exactly the situation in Men' tennis, especially in slow hard and clay courts.

 

[Front242]

I am still puzzle on how peds can help a player with technique. I wonder when Steffie won her 21 majors if folks accused her of using peds too, or is the accusations only to be fling at black women. I cannot believe what you folks are insinuating in this thread. A black person just cannot work hard and achieve success without being on something.

Insinuations and accusations have been thrown around about tons of players. This has nothing to do with race at all. Lance Armstrong is white

 

[tossip]

Serena has to increase security around her....remember when she had the first Serena slam the talk of steriods was very loud and the locker room was in an angry mode because Venus and her were winning everything...thats when Henin had to beef up her arms Kim and Capriati formed a support group of Serena victims .I remember the YEC when Serena beat Capriati in the semis Jen was very angry and had all the locker room sitting in the arena cheering afainst Serena it was really bizarre...think Kim ended up winning the yec....then the following year she lost to Serena in that semi in Australia when she was leading 5-1 in the third set.....
Serena has come a long way with the detractors...I hope she will be ready for the onslaught..

 

[colleen66]

I am still puzzle on how peds can help a player with technique. I wonder when Steffie won her 21 majors if folks accused her of using peds too, or is the accusations only to be fling at black women. I cannot believe what you folks are insinuating in this thread. A black person just cannot work hard and achieve success without being on something.

Insinuations and accusations have been thrown around about tons of players. This has nothing to do with race at all. Lance Armstrong is white

Some accusations against Serena cannot have racial undertone because a known PED user (Lance) is white? Interesting reasoning.........:eyepop

 

[tossip]

Serena has always been strong,remember that video from transworld when they were young kids...Richard kept on saying that Serena is so strong and mentally is like a pitbull...she wont let go...why is anyone surprised that she is still going strong.Oracene at one time said that Serena is competitive in everything,even in practice or uno...

 

[Front242]

There is zero undertone of racism. What the hell does race have to do with it? David Frum was talking about her performance at tennis and nothing more. The racism issue was started here only.