Sweden's Problem

britbox

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
27,424
Reactions
6,246
Points
113
Location
Gold Coast, Australia
You're right on not believing Breitbart. It's not a question of shooting the messenger as much as not him having no credibility. I did read it. Not that Malmo had just swapped problems with biker gangs for the current ones. It's not like some lovely Swedish place just got polluted.

And kind of the same with the Express. It's a tabloid. Can't you find a better source? I did bring you more neutral links. Your sources are inclined to a certain sensationalism, so your opinion could go that way, if you buy into it.

Look up the names of the people quoted Moxie and their job descriptions. Read the words of the interviewee... If you find some evidence to suggest they didn't say what was quoted then fine - hit me with it.

There are interviews with some of these people on multiple publications.... I'm not going to trawl the internet trying to match it to a publication that you might happen to like - you can do that for yourself.

The publications might not be palatable to you, but the interview still happened and the words were spoken. You might choose to ignore what chiefs and senior police officers are saying and take the words of Federberg's mate as gospel - that's fine.

Would you believe Trump won the election if you were watching Fox News and they streamed it live? or do I need to provide a CNN link?
 
N

Nekro

I'm sorry to say that one rape in your example doesn't mean that plenty of rapes don't happen without the presence of migrants. I'm not excusing that particular assault, I'm just suggesting that you're cherry-picking an incident.
ok want the other where the Syrian came from Sweden, lied that he was a Greek businessman (note the cunning deceptive maneuver there) and then committed violence against a woman?

About the Italian thing, i would like to hear those italian friends of yours saying that with a straight face lol

My understanding is that the data doesn't support an increase in crime in Sweden. Far from it. But we live in a world where the far right is stronger, and they'll tell you a narrative to fit their own facts. Funnily enough I have an ex-colleague of mine who moved to Stockholm. I asked him about this, and he just rolled his eyes. He's not lefty either by the way.
You mean the manipulated junk which is serving Merkel? thanks no.

Here's a vid though when some of the illegals broke through our border at one place, because they were too "classy" to actually go through the official check-in process, note the cute bandit masks, i guess they knew too they were doing something bad




Many of the "lefties" are very clueless i have to say. Like they're trying handle islamic radicalism as if it had to do something with race, also, many feminists are defending these people as if irl they would get any respect from them as women, i even read a transgender said "she" would live in a muslim country, as if in most muslim majority countries people like her weren't killed on a regular basis, and i've been having many quarrels with a lefty (ofc he's in a safe place far from the crisis) who prides himself on his heavy drinking, he's trying to sweep the muslim migrants' crimes too under the carpet as if in a muslim majority country they wouldn't do something ugly to him because of his drinking habit for example. If these people are liberal and lefty, why are they trying to protect non-liberal people, they can't take their majority and their liberal culture for granted if they don't face a problem when it pops up.


I have to add the left in countries like mine changed a lot from the start of the crisis. A well known lefty politician even took some migrants into one of his houses at the start, but the problems were so huge that now the majority of the leftist politicians are against the migration too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: britbox

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,680
Reactions
14,857
Points
113
Look up the names of the people quoted Moxie and their job descriptions. Read the words of the interviewee... If you find some evidence to suggest they didn't say what was quoted then fine - hit me with it.

There are interviews with some of these people on multiple publications.... I'm not going to trawl the internet trying to match it to a publication that you might happen to like - you can do that for yourself.

The publications might not be palatable to you, but the interview still happened and the words were spoken. You might choose to ignore what chiefs and senior police officers are saying and take the words of Federberg's mate as gospel - that's fine.

Would you believe Trump won the election if you were watching Fox News and they streamed it live? or do I need to provide a CNN link?
Excuse me, but this is your OP. It isn't incumbent on me to back it up. Or google your sources. I've provided reasonable sources to statistics that Sweden doesn't feel like it's become the new worst example of migrant crisis in Europe. I suggest if you want to convince me then, yes, you should do the work. You put up the thread. If the publications are subject to question, as Breitbart certainly is, then how can I even believe the quotes?

And now you're just being petulant. I didn't take Federberg's friend's word as gospel. I said it was also anecdotal. As to the Trump election...now you're just being pissy.
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,568
Reactions
5,653
Points
113
^As I said before, people will seek whatever "alternative facts" serve their agenda. I don't recall mentioning your country. I spoke about Sweden and a colleague of mine who lives there
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,680
Reactions
14,857
Points
113
^ Imagine that was your front door Moxie... would you open it?
Yep. And not to be sentimental or coy, but because if you treat people better it works better.

liberty.jpg
 

britbox

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
27,424
Reactions
6,246
Points
113
Location
Gold Coast, Australia
Excuse me, but this is your OP. It isn't incumbent on me to back it up. Or google your sources. I've provided reasonable sources to statistics that Sweden doesn't feel like it's become the new worst example of migrant crisis in Europe. I suggest if you want to convince me then, yes, you should do the work. You put up the thread. If the publications are subject to question, as Breitbart certainly is, then how can I even believe the quotes?

And now you're just being petulant. I didn't take Federberg's friend's word as gospel. I said it was also anecdotal. As to the Trump election...now you're just being pissy.

https://www.google.com.au/search?hl...234.1319.4j4j3.11.0...0.0...1ac.1.09DTT9HQjF4

There's over 50,000 links to News publications running stories from the swedish police guy - take your pick.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,680
Reactions
14,857
Points
113
I already did. You just didn't like it.... Are you actually questioning if the man exists or said what he said?
Not necessarily, but I'm questioning your sources. I'm asking for a more valid one. Not 50,000 ones. You admitted you put up at least one questionable one. You can be one passive-aggressive SOB. You like to stick something up that may be controversial and see how much kerfuffle you can engender, but you prefer to let others argue it out. I'm holding your feet to the fire and asking you to totally back this one up, and you're not really coming up with the goods. Tell me that Sweden is really is such turmoil, and that you were not just posting a spurious and biased video with no comment, just to stir the pot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: britbox

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,680
Reactions
14,857
Points
113
By your "like" I'll take that as a yes, and that I win the argument. :)
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,568
Reactions
5,653
Points
113
By the way, those Swedish police officers complained about the film. They were answering questions about high crime areas, and felt it was twisted into something about immigrants which wasn't what they were talking about. You can find that on youtube :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

britbox

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
27,424
Reactions
6,246
Points
113
Location
Gold Coast, Australia
Not necessarily, but I'm questioning your sources. I'm asking for a more valid one. Not 50,000 ones. You admitted you put up at least one questionable one. You can be one passive-aggressive SOB. You like to stick something up that may be controversial and see how much kerfuffle you can engender, but you prefer to let others argue it out. I'm holding your feet to the fire and asking you to totally back this one up, and you're not really coming up with the goods. Tell me that Sweden is really is such turmoil, and that you were not just posting a spurious and biased video with no comment, just to stir the pot.

I said the messenger would be one you didn't like... but what it was reporting on were the genuine comments of a senior Swedish police chief.

If you want it straight from the horses mouth - here is the man's own Twitter account: https://twitter.com/pspringare

Here is the former police chief of Malmo's Twitter: https://twitter.com/torstenelofsson

Not just Sweden is in turmoil Moxie - large parts of Europe are experiencing huge problems. This link satisfactory? http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/19/europe/germany-cologne-attacks/
 
N

Nekro

Not just Sweden is in turmoil Moxie - large parts of Europe are experiencing huge problems.
There are huge problems for sure, and some minor ones.

The following is just a third rate problem when it comes to migrants and they can't even be really blamed for this but for me it was a very frustrating experience:

One of my relatives has leukemia and i wanted to help him by giving him blood. So i had to note down lots of info about him so i could give blood to him in the first place (donating to relative in this way is not just like a normal blood donation, i had to fill an ard 10 page form) and then ofc in the hospital i gave blood sample and all, and when i was in the doc's office he asked me where i was abroad recently and i told him i was in Italy, he asked me which part of Italy and then he told me there was a virus there called "West Nile Virus" and that it killed some people already, mosquitos spread it and since i came home recently i couldn't give blood.

It was a very bad experience, my relative was counting on the blood, and i made a big trip to that hospital, paperwork, etc. etc . and in the end i couldn't give blood.


It was very interesting btw cause my gf didn't even know about this virus until i told her about it and my experience but then she checked the news and she confirmed some people died because of this virus which was taken into the country by the migrants
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,680
Reactions
14,857
Points
113
I said the messenger would be one you didn't like... but what it was reporting on were the genuine comments of a senior Swedish police chief.

If you want it straight from the horses mouth - here is the man's own Twitter account: https://twitter.com/pspringare

Here is the former police chief of Malmo's Twitter: https://twitter.com/torstenelofsson

Not just Sweden is in turmoil Moxie - large parts of Europe are experiencing huge problems. This link satisfactory? http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/19/europe/germany-cologne-attacks/
We're not talking about Germany. We're trying to get to the bottom of what goes on with Sweden vis-a-vis their absorption of many migrants relative to a rise in crime. I appreciate the link to the police chief's twitter feed, but it is one person, albeit one in a position to have a strong opinion. I'm linking to another article, this one from Politifact, (which you will note is a Pulitzer Prize winning site.) They find that crime hasn't risen, and has even dropped in some of recent years. I'll pull this quote out, for those that don't want to read, and because it addresses sexual crimes:

"In general, crime statistics have gone down the last (few) years, and no there is no evidence to suggest that new waves of immigration has lead to increased crime," Selin said.

Generally, there’s a certain over-representation of people with immigrant background in crime statistics, but that tends to be closely related to high levels of unemployment, poverty, exclusion, low language and other skills, Selin said. "Swedes with these characteristics are also overrepresented in crime statistics," he said.

If we look specifically at sex offences, which the Fox News segment highlighted, there were 18,100 sex offenses reported to the police in 2015, down 11 percent from 2014, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-statistics-say-about-immigration-and-sweden/


I recognize that immigration in Europe, particularly where there have been historically very homogeneous cultures until recently, can create frictions and changes in the society. However, there is no reason to over-state problems, or unfairly attribute all of them to migrants. This is the kind of hysteria-mongering that Trump is trading in. And if the Swedes prefer to be open to immigration and helping others who are fleeing oppression and poverty, the rest of the world would do well to respect that, and not use them as a pawn in their own immigration debates.
 
Last edited:

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,680
Reactions
14,857
Points
113
There are huge problems for sure, and some minor ones.

The following is just a third rate problem when it comes to migrants and they can't even be really blamed for this but for me it was a very frustrating experience:

One of my relatives has leukemia and i wanted to help him by giving him blood. So i had to note down lots of info about him so i could give blood to him in the first place (donating to relative in this way is not just like a normal blood donation, i had to fill an ard 10 page form) and then ofc in the hospital i gave blood sample and all, and when i was in the doc's office he asked me where i was abroad recently and i told him i was in Italy, he asked me which part of Italy and then he told me there was a virus there called "West Nile Virus" and that it killed some people already, mosquitos spread it and since i came home recently i couldn't give blood.

It was a very bad experience, my relative was counting on the blood, and i made a big trip to that hospital, paperwork, etc. etc . and in the end i couldn't give blood.


It was very interesting btw cause my gf didn't even know about this virus until i told her about it and my experience but then she checked the news and she confirmed some people died because of this virus which was taken into the country by the migrants
Nekro, I'm sorry for your relative's illness, and I hope he's doing better. As you said, WNV is spread by mosquitoes, not by migrants. The virus hasn't had a huge impact in Italy compared to other countries, where only 10 people died, and those in 2008-9. (Compared to the USA, where some 580 people died in the early 2000s.) The decision of your country not to accept your blood donation was theirs, and it's unfortunate. I'm guessing you can at least read Italian, so I'll give you this link: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_del_Nilo_occidentale There are also a lot of official medical and disease control websites in English and Italian that talk about blood and plasma donation relative to WNV.
 
N

Nekro

Nekro, I'm sorry for your relative's illness, and I hope he's doing better. As you said, WNV is spread by mosquitoes, not by migrants. The virus hasn't had a huge impact in Italy compared to other countries, where only 10 people died, and those in 2008-9. (Compared to the USA, where some 580 people died in the early 2000s.) The decision of your country not to accept your blood donation was theirs, and it's unfortunate. I'm guessing you can at least read Italian, so I'll give you this link: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_del_Nilo_occidentale There are also a lot of official medical and disease control websites in English and Italian that talk about blood and plasma donation relative to WNV.
My relative is still alive which is a miracle, he looked unreal bad lots of times but he's hanging on...

About that stats, thanks for those but in my case the stats didn't help lol.... It was an annoyance for me here at home and as i said there were other annoyances from the migrants other places and all those annoyances add up and that's why the anti-immigration feelings are strong in Europe.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,680
Reactions
14,857
Points
113
My relative is still alive which is a miracle, he looked unreal bad lots of times but he's hanging on...

About that stats, thanks for those but in my case the stats didn't help lol.... It was an annoyance for me here at home and as i said there were other annoyances from the migrants other places and all those annoyances add up and that's why the anti-immigration feelings are strong in Europe.
I'm glad to hear about your relative. But you do recognize that the West Nile Virus has nothing to do with migrants, right? They don't bring mosquitos with them and there is no human-to-human transmission. Generally, the spread of WNV is through migratory birds. People in Europe, and in the US, for that matter, who have problems with migrants should consider what the actual issues are, and leave off of the medieval witch-hunt things that have no bearing. That would at least help clarify the discussion.
 
N

Nekro

I'm glad to hear about your relative. But you do recognize that the West Nile Virus has nothing to do with migrants, right? They don't bring mosquitos with them and there is no human-to-human transmission. Generally, the spread of WNV is through migratory birds. People in Europe, and in the US, for that matter, who have problems with migrants should consider what the actual issues are, and leave off of the medieval witch-hunt things that have no bearing. That would at least help clarify the discussion.
The migrants brought the virus in their bodies and the mosquitos were spreading them. That's what the doc said and just think, Why was it in the very urbanized Milano area that the danger was biggest??? The birds love the concrete jungle? give me a break.....